Alright, so in TRS Badass Gay came up for discussion and it was agreed that there appears to big problem with the Badass X tropes in general, which needs to be sorted out until something can be ruled on for Badass Gay.
Here's a courtesy link: TRS page
. And Badass page with its subtropes. You can also visit the sandbox page here.
Noted Problems include:
- Tropes are just listings of characters people thing are badass who happen to have a certain trait. (The Badass + Trait Problem)
- Badass X as a naming scheme is actually very vague and doesn't give a lot of insight into what the character trope actually is, assuming it is a trope.
- Badass X as a naming scheme proliferates the use of Badass + Trait 'tropes'.
Suggested things to do include:
- Make it a requirement that a badass character trope means a character is "badass because of a trait", or "badass in spite of a trait".
- Renaming away from the Badass X naming scheme as much as possible.
- Cut, redefine or re-purpose things that are just Badass + trait.
There are also a lot of tropes that seem to be valid character-types, but have the naming scheme 'Badass X', when there's more to the trope than that. There are also a lot of prop or event or whatever tropes that need to be gone through as well.
Edited by Berrenta on May 15th 2020 at 7:39:14 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Depending on what? This like a purely quantitative question, so it would be best to just have a set number.
Does the Badass Grandpa laconic still need to be added to the cut list?
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
she/her
I would say cutlist all of the subpages.
I've sent the Laconic to the Cut List. It also has a Dutch language page and an Image Links page. I don't want to touch the Dutch language page, but should the Image Links page be cut as well?
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
she/her
Yeah, it looks like the Dutch page is now a disambiguation as well, but it still has the image and the lengthy description that the main page used to.
I think we can cut Image Links/ as well, since you can't have images depicting a trope that doesn't exist.
I sent the Image Links and Quotes page to the Cut List. That just leaves the Dutch-language page.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Bumping this up with a wick count: 1415 Badass Gay wicks, 80 Badass Bisexual wicks.
TRS Wick Cleaning
Badass Bisexual is completely dewicked, by the looks of things. It's at 400-ish inbounds. Is it worth keeping as a redirect?
TRS Wick Cleaning
The dewicking effort seems to have stalled. I'd like to make announcement in ATT to try to bring in more people to help out. That's what we did when we cut Bi The Way, which made that clean-up go much faster than this has, despite having triple the wicks. Should I make the post?
Edited by TheMountainKing on Sep 1st 2020 at 10:02:26 AM
(she/her)
I think making one would help
Macron's notes
Made the post. Hopefully it helps.
We're below 1000 wicks.
I know this ain't really the purpose of this thread, but I just wanted to bring to y'all's attention that someone got really, really mad Badass Gay was dewicked: they edit warred by repeatedly trying to keep the example on Characters.The Last Of Us Joel And Ellie, attempting to shove it into UsefulNotes.Homosexual and Straight Gay in the process, threw a tantrum in ATT, and made a hilariously awful TLP draft before dipping.
This all happened in the span of like twelve hours and there's just something so absurd about it.
Jawbreakers on sale for 99ยข
The Unknown Unknown
That's how it started?
Clearly, they didn't read why we dewicked it.
Edited by erazor0707 on Sep 7th 2020 at 12:25:29 PM
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
『 』
What do we do with the redirects. They aren't used anywhere on the wiki, and Badass Lesbian has 1200 inbounds while Badass Bisexual has 450. Should they just be cutlisted?
Discarded and Feeling Blue
Probably. No sense in keeping redirects to a disambig.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
『 』
Aight. Snippy Snip they go.
The Unknown Unknown
Hear, hear.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
It makes me wonder, if people are so passionate about having badass X simply as an indicator of X exists, is there a place for that on the website in any format.
Like Index Of Queer Main Characters or something like that. same for like female characters, minority characters, disabled characters, elderly characters etc etc.
I would hate for trope clean up to feel like erasure.
Edited by acrobox on Sep 8th 2020 at 2:40:55 AM
Discarded and Feeling Blue
Not...really. See, those things still aren't tropes. While we're trying to celebrate fiction here we also need to remember that our primary purpose is to analyze the tropes within fiction, and a list of characters who just so happen to be LGBT doesn't fit that mission.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sometimes I think we might want to have a general supertrope for these instances where someone's non-straight sexual orientation is important for the story. There are some cases such as in Castle and The Mentalist which aren't noteworthy and others also in Castle (a murder suspect hides their homosexual relationship, even though it'd provide a robust alibi, impeding the investigation) and Hawaii Five-0 (the investigators realize that an adult gay murder victim cannot be in a relationship with a underage girl) where it is important for the plot that someone is not straight.
An index and its subtropes do not necessarily cover this case.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Discarded and Feeling Blue
Key phrase there being "important to the story", as we still don't want "Bob just happens to be Bi" examples.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Yeah those above examples could be in like a Queer Twist trope where its a reveal or detail that's important to a murder investigation, or throws a wrench into a love triangle set up or something. That could be a tropeworthy TLP.
I'm fully aware "X exists" or "badass X" aren't tropes, and not proposing they should be. It just seems like something a lot of people are passionate about keeping in some format. IDK where to go with that energy.
I don't think that would work as a trope because it's too general. There are so many different, unrelated ways for a character's sexuality to "matter to the story" that treating it as if they are all one pattern won't work. And of course "matters to the story" is also a vague criteria. You could argue that it matters just for being there, and then we're right back at "character is LGBTQ".
Back in the day it used to be 10, but I don't think we are that strict anymore. I don't think that we've settled on a new threshold, although personally I'd set it at 500-1000 depending.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman