This thread is locked
Zzzzzzzzzz
#1352: Feb 7th 2011 at 6:28:06 PM
Are you going to round up or down? Is a [3.47:1] a [3:1] or a [4:1]?
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Truttle
#1353: Feb 7th 2011 at 6:35:12 PM
Why not just round up if the decimal is 5-9, and down if it's 1-4?
(´･ω･`)
FastEddie
Since: Apr, 2004
#1354: Feb 7th 2011 at 6:51:56 PM
Ordinary rounding, I suppose.
Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
TheManInBlack
Since: Oct, 2009
#1355: Feb 7th 2011 at 8:15:07 PM
No matter what we are removing Fetish Fuel right?
Also depending on the discussion on what acceptable, can curator saved aritciles be deleted?
The Other Troper
#1356: Feb 7th 2011 at 8:48:29 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
FF is still in the process of moving, so once that is done, they can safely be deleted.
adopting kitteh
#1357: Feb 7th 2011 at 8:59:31 PM
FE's cutting thresholds
FE's cutting thresholdsAnd, since this is an important subject, those thresholds are based on what? I mean, given the divergence in ratios, lumping 2:1 and 1:1 (I think) together sounds somewhat "let's not do a thin"-ish compared with the presence of some 11:1 rations. I hope this is more than just yet another Idontlikethisness.
Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
Redhead
Since: Jan, 2011
#1358: Feb 7th 2011 at 10:00:00 PM
What about 3:1 and no curator?
The new It Just Bugs Me!
PageAction:
WhichTroperTalesPagesNeedToBeZapped
20th Apr '10 12:00:00 AM
Crown Description:
Don't bother to say "all of them". Name specific Troper Tales pages that should be axed. An "UP" Vote means you think it should be cut completely. A "DOWN" vote means it should be kept. "I don't care for this page" is not a reason to cut it. "This page is unsalvagable. Kill it with fire" is. PLEASE bullet point pro and con examples if there are more than one.- Cut
- Cut
- Keep
- Keep
Gag Penis
- Cut: Neither of the examples shows the trope. They are a spam e-mail and boasting about penis size.
- Cut: There is zero reason for this to exist unless it became a comedic page itself mocking spam and entertainment examples. Seeing as it isn't funny... and is an ego trip it needs to go
- Keep: Has only 2 entries. At this point, there's no telling whether it'll be a dick-measuring contest or not.
Shotacon
Cut: Has only one example now, but could turn problematic due to the subject nature. Note that shotacon is different from Cute Shotaro Boy in that little boys are being fetishized in the former.
Cut: If the lolicon page was cut, this should be too.
Noble Bigot
Cut: As seen from the history, might encourage racism with the excuse of "I'm really a nice guy though so it's okay".
Raging Stiffie (No, seriously. NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR DICKS.)
Hilariously Abusive Childhood (Real life child abuse is never funny. If you are thinking about a more lighter less-violent version of this trope, look for other examples in Rule of Funny)
He Man Woman Hater
Cut: Encourages misogyny
Child Hater
- Cut: Violently creepy hatred.
- Keep: Needs to be redefined, the creepy hatred removed, but could be a valid place to express childfree beliefs... although there really is a rather significant difference between child hatred (i.e., what the article is about) and wishing to remain childfree.
- Cut: Any examples that don't involve child hatred would be by definition not examples on the trope. Since we don't want child hatred and we don't want off-topic examples, it's hard to see what possible good examples this page could have.
- Volunteering for curator: Losing Streak
- Volunteering for curator: A Groupie
Does Not Like Men (devolved into a massive flame war and was already a way to show off misandry)
Cut: removing the misandry.
Keep: COULD work if cleaned up and watched.
Cut: This page is misandrous by its very definition. There aren't many ways you can say "This tropette hates men" without being a spiteful shrew.
Keep: But if a troper met someone who was like this (without names of course), it would be valid.
Cut: If He Man Woman Hater gets cut, so should this.
A Groupie is willing to do edit work and curation to keep things calm.
Put Them All Out Of My Misery (Revenge fantasies.)
Diaper Fiction (Fetish Fuel But More Specific)
- Cut: For exactly the reason mentioned above. These diapers need to be taken out to the trash.
Only one example which is actually pimping an off-site ficlet. Yeah, nobody's gonna miss that one.
Boomerang Bigot (Same problem as Noble Bigot.)
Jerkass (Either whining about whoever someone doesn't like, bragging about being an asshole, or both)
Nietzsche Wannabe
Cut: An empty page would be as nihilistic as you can get. Talk about meta! Which is why the page should remain but emptied out and locked.
Cut: When even the main page insults it, you know this thing needs to go.
Brilliant But Lazy
Cut: Low wattage on the brilliance side but high on the laziness.
Cut: Shows less brilliance and more unwarranted self-importance.
Keep: Giving props to people that aren't yourself that fit this might work better.
Keep: there is no need nor source for "high wattage" on the brilliance side, considering that laziness does not have a social bottom threshold. Unless you can factually get a respectable amount of people with over 300 IQ points (whatever those are) to periodically show up in that page, the page is by mere statistics going to be skewed towards the laziness.
Acceptable Ethnic Targets (Excuse for racism.)
Cut: All valid examples would be "I have such-and-so nationality" which would be on the main page anyway.
Cut: All valid examples would be "I have such-and-so nationality" which would be on the main page anyway.
Acceptable Religious Targets (Flame bait for religions & atheism.)
Cut: Acceptable Targets doesn't need troper tales.
Pani Poni Dash
Cut: It's an empty (and not a vandalised/blanked) page. Just Cutlist it. Don't lock it.
Foot Focus (The trope is the camera focusing on somebody's feet, and real life isn't filmed. Plus, we really don't want to hear about your fetish, yo.)
Keep: what authorizes you to say that we don't want to read about a certain Fetish, if that is the place for it?
Cut: This isn't the place for it for 2 reasons: 1) That's not even what the trope is about. As stated, it's about the camera focusing on one's feet, not getting off on it. 2) We're not here talk about tropers' sexual tastes. That's what kicked this whole thing off in the first place.
Rape As Comedy (bargepole-like problematic, obvious reasons)
*Cut: Purely Dude, Not Funny!. Only one giggle-worthy entry on the whole page, that "oak tree" story.
*Cut: Purely Dude, Not Funny!. Only one giggle-worthy entry on the whole page, that "oak tree" story.
- Keep: There is little to no Black Comedy on the page, and most of it is video game lingo and memespouting.
The Unfair Sex (tends to turn from legitimate attempts to point out injustice into misogynistic ranting)
Love Makes You Evil (Creepy usage of "evil" bordering on sociopathic.)
Jack Bauer Interrogation Technique
- Cut: Psychotic streaks abound!
- Keep: Psychotic streaks? You mean the one with the giant discussion about it? We can remove that. I will be willing to keep future ones away.
- Keep This could only be passable if limited to RP or fictional examples ONLY.
- Keep It could serve for discussion that originates in stuff like, say, Guantanamo, if an adequate person brings it in and if it is moderated/watched/something. I mean, I'm sure more than one Troper has had a neighbor picked up for "conversation".
Gainaxing
- Cut: Animated Trope. Can't even occur in Real Life, so any example would fall under Fetish Fuel.
*Cut: Even though Real Life examples could be argued to illustrate the trope, it's a little creepy to have a page that only consists of people discussing how they stare at boobs.
*Cut: While not solely an animated trope, real life examples are inherently problematic to talk about. - Keep: We don't have a generic trope for boob bouncing and not all examples in the main trope are animated; issues with Trope Decay don't need to go here.
- Keep: Any female who has ever gone out without a bra knows this trope very much occurs in real life. There are currently no examples of Fetish Fuel.
Fetish Fuel
Cut: Shows up in children's media due to its nature, gets really creepy at times.
Cut: Since it's one of the largest and highest-traffic TT pages, not only would be one of the most difficult to curate, but it attracts so much negative attention that it's one of the major reasons this crowner exists in the first place. Since squick is subjective, we can't say "anything too squicky gets axed".
Cut: It's not even what the trope is about! The trope is "Gee, that probably wasn't supposed to be hot but it totally was", not "Here is a list of things that arouse me."
Cut: People have moved the entries to a Wikia space.
Anyone who will miss it can go there.
Anyone who will miss it can go there.
Would Hit A Girl (See Wouldn't Hit A Girl.)
Keep: Has many entries that are legitimate cases of sexism/lack thereof
Psychopathic Manchild (Creepy sociopathic undertones.)
- Keep: Half of the examples (and there's only four to begin with) are clearly roleplaying characters. This page has had plenty of time to get out of hand, and it hasn't really.
Incest Yay
Cut: Remember what happened to Brother Sister Incest?
Keep: It didn't happen with this one yet. The yay tropes aren't about actual sex, but teasing, so most of the entries describe harmless, if little bit awkward innuendos and flirting.
Volunteering to curate: Hershele Ostropoler and Vorpy
Crapsack World (Basically Complaining About Places You Don't Like)
Stalker With A Crush (As some people have said on the page, these guys need help.)
- Keep: There's plenty of examples of stalkers tropers have known. It's when the stalkers are the ones writing the examples that it gets creepy, and usually they're accompanied by several other Tropers calling them out on it.
Comic Sutra (Disgusting sex acts you never wanted to know about.)
Cut: This is and can only continue to be entries that are basically "I fell for this Schmuck Bait oh and look... now you did too."
Cut: This is and can only continue to be entries that are basically "I fell for this Schmuck Bait oh and look... now you did too."
All Men Are Perverts
- Cut: Ego stroking, misogyny, and Unfortunate Implications. Needs to burn.
- Keep: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix.
Intelligence Equals Isolation
- Cut:(Yes, your superior intellect is totally the reason you're alone. Some of these examples fall more under Insufferable Genius.)
- Keep:(Meeting somebody else that never leaves their house and believes he/she is incredibly intelligent.)
Insufferable Genius (Starts out promising with a few joke entries, but devolves into ego stroking.)
Beautiful All Along (Nothing but ego stroking)
All Love Is Unrequited (Huge bitchfest over how "I'm the right one for her/him dammit!")
Girl On Girl Is Hot
Cut: Girl on Girl Is Hot is specifically "female-on-female titillation". Any troper tale that isn't an aversion/subversion is going to be Fetish Fuel But More Specific. If Fetish Fuel needs to go then so does this Girl On Girl Is Hot.
Cut: Do we really need a dozen "Girl on Girl indeed hot!" me-too entries that say the exact same thing - especially when the main page discusses its application in real life anyway?
Magnificent Bastard (Just bastards until Patton says otherwise.)
Yandere (Disturbing sociopathic undertones.)
A Darker Me
Cut: Exactly What It Says on the Tin. This page's problems are inherent to the page, not something that can be curated away.
- Keep: Can be kept out of the disturbing and sociopathic areas with Curation. Judging from the page, there is more self Lampshading and self evaluation of how they acted online as opposed to "I am dark and evil and want everyone to die because they were mean".
- Keep:: There isn't any anti-humanity, blatantly negative or hostile contributions anywhere, just people talking about how they used to think in the past.
Depraved Bisexual
Cut: None of the described examples belong on that list. They're at "best" descriptions of Anything That Moves mentality. real examples wouldprobably be Flame Bait as mentioned on the main page. Unfortunate Implications about bisexuals.
Me Love You Long Time
Does nothing but objectify Asian women.
Cut: Currently it appears to be doing several other things, none of them good.
Badass Bookworm (Ridiculous, improbable, and at times obviously fabricated attempts at ego-stroking)
If You Ever Do Anything To Hurt Her (Slips into disturbing revenge threats.)
Keep: A vigilant Wiki Curator can keep this under control, and the concept itself is heartwarming.
The Pesci (Problems with Berserk Button-like attitudes.)
Beware The Nice Ones (Outright violent sociopathic descriptions.)
Give Geeks A Chance (What is this, a dating service?)
- Cut: We already have a dating service: Troper Dating Service
Genius Bruiser (Hey guys I have an IQ of like a million and can totally bench-press your ass!)
Yangire (Like Yandere but worse.)
Loners Are Freaks (Look at all these loners together in this page! Maybe they can go cheer up when they realize that they are not alone.)
Complete Monster
Cut: Ego-stroking about who can create the most disgusting, shitty character. Has no worth to anyone.
CuteShotaroBoy (Contains thinly-veiled pedophilia that slips into Shotacon territory. This trope is not about the fetishizing of little boys.)
The Jail Bait Wait
- Cut: Creepy pedophilic/ephebophilia undertones.
- Keep: If people are waiting, they're not doing anything creepy
- Keep: Most of the entries are about two teenagers already in a relationship. Can be easily monitored by prohibiting entries about unrequited affection.
All Girls Want Bad Boys
- Cut: Misogynyfest.
- Keep: Most of the examples seem to be neutral towards women but negative towards the guys they go for instead. Could be salvaged with curating.
- Cut: Most of the examples are aversions under the nature of "I used to be like this, but now I'm smarter". Single Woman Seeks Good Man is the trope they're looking for.
- Keep: The badly placed examples can be zapped. There are still many examples left to illustrate the trope.
Genius Ditz (Nothing but ego inflating)
Anime Anatomy
- CUT. Cannot happen in real life!!!
- Keep: There's one example currently and it's about someone with what is presumably a birth defect.
- Keep: There aren't any on the page right now, but this could be used for tropers who use this trope in their art or have a specific character who lacks nipples/genitalia.
A Party Also Known As An Orgy
- Cut: Too much ego-stroking, too little amusing anecdotes.
- Keep: A few laughworthy examples show potential for salvation if ego-stroking is purged and details are kept discreet.
Acceptable Nationality Targets
Keep: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix. (no curators at this time)
Chick Magnet (Yeah, right.)
Man I Feel Like A Woman
Cut: Does NOT happen in real life. Also slips into fetishistic fantasies after the first few entries.
Keep: Does, in fact, happen in real life. And is pretty okay when not used as a dumpster for boob fetishism. The other entries were curated.
Keep: Not that bad. Mostly transexuals talking.
Porn Stash
Cut:
- Implications of child pornography among other illegal activities. See the link to Lolicon in one entry about illegal porn.
- We are not interested in where tropers hide their porn or how much of it they have.
- A lot of "illegal" porn is rather arbitrary, and considered unobjectionable by many tropers who don't object to porn generally
- Child porn entries can be removed by curation, so can ego-stroking.
- Most of the page can be summed up with "most people keep their stash on a computer, not in a box in the closet anymore"
- Volunteering for curate: A Groupie; Alex The Pretty Good; Vorpy
Nightmare Fetishist (really rather disturbing)
Covert Pervert
Pro: The page is people talking about how they are perverts. Problem is an inherent part of the trope, so this can't be fixed by curating.
Con: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix. (no curators at this time)
Deadpan Snarker (tends to turn into a back-slapping contest for smug, unfunny dicks)
Nerds Are Virgins
Cleaned-up version: Sandbox.TalesNerdsAreVirgins
- Cut: dick measuring contest
Full of "Subversion " and "averted by this troper" - Keep: Hardly any dick-measuring to be seen (though some "prudisher than thou" mentality)
Simple aversions/subversions can be cut by a curator. The "victim of this trope" stories illustrate the trope even better.
Cleaned-up version: Sandbox.TalesNerdsAreVirgins
There Are No Therapists
- Cut: The trope is "There are no therapists." There are, in fact, therapists extant in reality.
*Keep: There are therapists, but not everywhere. As per the main page - Japan doesn't suffer those with genuine psychological issues well. Jake Adelstein's Tokyo Vice provides a firsthand account of the Japanese perception that those who claim insanity are either faking it or beyond cure, and as such are to be outcasts or locked up. - KEEP: I had a Keep example in here earlier that was deleted. While there may be therapists extant in SOME PARTS of reality, that is taking an overly literal reading of the content. In other parts of reality there are no therapists, no GOOD therapists (and anyone who's ever dealt with a bad therapist or psuedotherapist can testify to how horrific the results of that can be: bad therapy is WORSE than none), or no therapists being utilized. And there are situations in which therapy is, sadly, incredibly inadequate or has to be very careful to cause more good than harm.
Kids Are Cruel (Another page that seems designed for complaining and sympathy grabs)
Keep: Page is not a bad idea, but could use more examples from people who are no longer kids themselves.
Obfuscating Insanity (Not much obfuscation here, Frank. Ego stroking.)
Acceptable Inevitable Targets (The NAACP will hear about this!)
Adult Child
Keep: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix. (see here)
Volunteer to curate: FrodoGoofballCoTV (if no one else wants it)
Evil Is Sexy
- Keep: There are no examples talking about anything sociopathic, illegal or going into extreme detail why evil turns them on. Mostly just humorous chatter.
Fetish Fuel Future
- Cut: We should be getting rid of it, no matter where it is or when it is.
- Cut: Only a sister version of Fetish Fuel.
Conveniently Common Kink
Pro: Start by reading the first one. Go on, click it.
Con: Incest and other really squicksome stuff can be curated out
Volunteering to curate: Hershele Ostropoler See Sandbox.Troper Tales Conveniently Common Kink
The Immodest Orgasm
Cut: We do not want to hear about tropers' sex lives. Particularly not the girlfriend who goes "FUCK YOU FUCK YOU" or that incident with the midget.
Keep: Most of the stories are plausible, and some of them are kind of cute.
- Keep: None of them are in the beyond inappropriate/creepy range.
Home Porn Movie
- Keep: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix.
- Keep: The only example is humorous, not creepy or fetishistic.
Acceptable Hobby Targets
Keep: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix. (no curators at this time)
Freudian Excuse (Not very excusable after all.)
Matzo Fever
Just a list of random people who are Jewish.
So Beautiful, It's A Curse
- Cut: A lot of the anecdotes are about young girls being abused/sexually harassed because they developed earlier than their peers. They're really sad, but that's not exactly what the trope is.
- Cut: Tropers waxing philosophical about how preeettty they are. Though it has clearly been established that a vigilant Wiki Curator can fix cancer, world hunger and man's inhumanity to man, this might be one of the very few things even they cannot save. Then again, others would have it that this page too has, (everybody together now...)
- Keep: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix.
Self Made Orphan
Cut:
- Has led to creepy revenge fantasies - see edit history.
- We have pages for Troper Works, so we don't need troper tales for that.
- Several quality examples from original characters, including one from The Sims and another from role-playing, would be lost.
- Current page has no bad examples.
- Curation can prevent future bad examples.
Madden Into Misanthropy (Move along Nietzsche, Jr.)
KEEP: If kept out of "This is why I hate humankind" territory and kept in the "You people are driving me crazy!" category, the examples can be led into a different direction.
Willing Curators: Vorpy
Heroic Sociopath
It's all in the name. However, character examples could stay.
Cut: creepy real life examples
Keep: Valid non-creepy RPG examples. We don't have other pages for Table Top games.
shimaspawn will curate it and keep the non-gaming creepy examples off.
Nice Guy
- Cut: TV Tropes Is Not A Dating Site, ego-stroking.
- Keep: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix. (Such as Vorpy, who volunteers.)
- Keep: "I met a nice guy today. He helped me out". People other than the writer can be a Nice Guy.
Fetish
Cut: Needs to be nuked along with Fetish Fuel. Same creepy content.
Keep: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix.
Volunteer to curate: Hershele Ostropoler, Vorpy
All Women Are Lustful
Keep: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix. (no curators at this time)
Brains And Bondage
Cut: Both juicy sexual details and tropers waxing about how O SO SMRT they are! What's not to like?
Keep:
- Since almost all the Troper Tales give credentials for their smarts, they can't be accused of not being smart enough to qualify for the trope, unlike many of the intelligence tropes on this crowner.
- Community-building
- Nothing that would be out of place on the main page aside from being a troper tale — as wth fictional examples, they're all "X is smart and kinky" with evidence
Screw Yourself
CUT: An anatomically impossible act. Page quickly degenerates into "This troper had a dream a few years ago where he was making love with his character from Phantasy Star Online". Also don't miss the story about the Navy Cadet Unit.
Omnicidal Maniac
Cut: flagrant insanity, and We have pages for Troper Works, so we don't need troper tales for that.
Keep: Should be available for role-playing characters, and examples in tropers' own works.
Keep: It does not always apply to angsty teenagers with a keyboard. Animals can be Omnicidal Maniac traits as well.
Cut: Again, we have pages for troper works, and for Real Life, show me an animal that wants to destroy the world sometime. Also, to whoever deleted my previous reason supporting a cut, please don't do it again.
Volunteering to curate: Amp
Creepy Sexy (fetishism)
Cut: We don't want to hear about your sex lives or your fetishes, especially not like this.
Acceptable Lifestyle Targets
Keep: The occasional sociopathic entry and snowflakiing can be culled
Volunteering to curate: Hershele Ostropoler
Everyone Looks Sexier If French (A list of "Nationality X turns me on" items)
Badass Longcoat
- The good: "This coat is cool/I saw a cool coat"
- The bad: "I'm a badass and I wear one."
Fetish Retardant
Pro: It's the opposite of Fetish Fuel, much like getting your hand stuck in a meat grinder that's going clockwise is the opposite of getting your hand stuck in a meat grinder that's going counter-clockwise.
Con:
- Nothing offensive if sex itself isn't adjudged offensive.
- Community-building
- May be salvageable if kept free of Fetish Fuel-style TMI, anything overly explicit, general uncalled-for nastiness, and people primarily bragging about themselves.
Stepford Smiler (Fishing for sympathy.)
Potty Failure (Ew.)
Cut: This is a TV Tropes page where people get together and share the various ways, times and circumstances in which they shit their pants. Somewhere, Trope-Tan is crying.
Keep: Come on, there's a reason people find toilet humor amusing.
Keep: Squick is subjective. In any event, this crowner is intended to address TT pages that attract creepy or otherwise undesirable posters, not "posters who have had accidents" Volunteering to Curate: Agent0042
Keep: Squick is subjective. In any event, this crowner is intended to address TT pages that attract creepy or otherwise undesirable posters, not "posters who have had accidents" Volunteering to Curate: Agent0042
Attention Whore
Cut: Exactly What It Says on the Tin for first-person examples, mixed with Complaining About People And Animals You Don't Like.
Perverse Sexual Lust (Same problem as Fetish Fuel.)
Cut: We don't need to know about which cartoon characters tropers want to pork. Nobody cares.
Keep. It's a free country, and if people want to admit they have an attraction to a fictional character, let them.
Allergic To Love
- CUT: Wangst, ego-stroking, and a really disgusting salad toss.
Draco In Leather Pants
Cons: It's not about IRL events, but personal shipping preferences, that were originally driven there from main shipping tropes.
Cut: No reason to exist besides the above, and more than a little depressing to read.
Break The Cutie (Excuse to fish for compliments and sympathy.)
A Date With Rosie Palms
Pro:
- Almost entirely comprised of people making fun of how actually having the page would be really creepy. Just "almost" becuase there's that "This troper is writing a fic about Sonic The Hedgehog masturbating to Blaze, much to Amy's horror, to the point that Amy is Driven To Suicide" bit.
- As of now, there aren't any actually Troper Tales on the page—and if there were, no one wants to hear about your date.
Can't Act Perverted Toward A Love Interest
Keep: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix.
Volunteering to curate: Hershele Ostropoler
Audio Erotica
- CUT: Ego trip Beyond the Impossible after the first few entries, bragging place.
- CUT: Past the creepy sex stuff is a random list of actors and singers whom the troper swoons over that's not very interesting to anyone else
The Reason You Suck Speech (A lot of people fantasizing about what they wish they'd said to bullies and generally trying to make themselves look cool.)
Con: Won't be problematic if we limit this to people reporting what people had said to them or what they overheard someone saying to someone else. Plus a couple of truly pathetic entries received some hilarious MSTing.
Anti Goggles
- CUT: Merely Complaining About Ships You Don't Like.
Underboobs
- Fetish Fuel But More Specific. Guys talking about why they love boobs? There's the aim of TV Tropes, and then this. . .
I Call Him Mister Happy (people listing how they, and people they know, affectionately call their reproductive organs.)
- Keep: Can be funny. (Mainly I'm thinking of the "Dear god, I just enthusiastically christened another man's balls." one.)
Yaoi Fangirl
Cut: Yet another Fetish Fuel But More Specific.
Cut: This would also apply to Girl on Girl Is Hot and Yuri Fan; believe it or not, not all gays and bisexuals enjoy being ogled by straights.
Cut Same as above. We don't need to hear any of this.
Curate: Feinoha
Wouldn't Hit A Girl (Disturbing aversions posted that would fall under Would Hit A Girl.)
Volunteering to curate: FrodoGoofballCoTV
See possible curating example here.
Karma Houdini (The second entry at least borders on sociopathic.)
- Con: Remove last entry and make notification page is about Karma Houdini that you've seen, not done.
Seme and Uke
- Keep: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix. Gay people do exist in real life though, and there is nothing wrong with listing RP examples if people want to.
Balls Of Steel
- CUT: One person brags about punching himself in the balls. Sensible person snarks. The end.
- KEEP: That little example is funny enough to merit it's existence.
Psychotic Smirk
- Cut:(Ego-stroking on how Badass and dangerous tropers think they are)
- Keep: (Psychotic Smirks appearing in places where violence is not part of the situation, like a video game or bowling)
Coitus Uninterruptus
Pro: Yet more of that endless artifact of fascination that is Tropers' sex lives. No, thank you.
Con: Nothing explicit or self-declared badassery currently. Hershele Ostropoler is willing to keep an ye on it to keep it that way.
Badass Bystander
- Cut: No one listed here sounds particularly badass, just jerkass...es.)
- Keep: Result of vandalism that occurred back in November (checked history).
- Keep: Inaccurate examples can be curated.
The Mad Hatter (See Obfuscating Stupidity.)
Character Alignment
- Cut: Snowflaking hub.
- Cut: Unless you're a character in an RPG that uses a two-axis Good-Evil/Chaotic-Lawful arrangement, it doesn't apply to you.
- Keep: "My dog is Chaotic Evil./ My toilet is Lawful Good" In other words, Alignments applied to non-humans.
- Keep: It's harmless.
- Keep: Also can provide interesting tales about how someone played with Character Alignment when making a character for their own R Ps.
Bastard Bastard
- CUT. Two childish rants is all this page consists of.
Twin Threesome Fantasy
- Creepy and fetishistic, and also Fetish Fuel But More Specific.
Belligerent Sexual Tension
- CUT: More sexual bragging and overshare.
Zettai Ryouiki
- CUT: Almost nothing but ego-stroking and creepy responses, and potentially fetishistic/sexual. (Fetish Fuel But More Specific?)
Im Not Pretty (Looks like an excuse to fish for compliments.)
Awful Truth (Excuse to fish for compliments and sympathy.)
(Keep:sure its depressing, but there isnt anything nsfw on it,which is the main argument against TT, Nothing a curator cant handle,nothing strictly wrong with people needing sympathy )
Volenteer to curate: Dontcallmewave
Serial Killer
- Cut: Seems to be entirely made of joke entries
- Keep: The jokes aren't really that bad
Acceptable Hard Luck Targets
- Pro: Nobody cares about your mental condition or how small you are.
- Con: Actually highlights issues of discrimination and prejudice and is in tune with the actual trope page mission. Needs a ton of cleanup (especially the constipated dude, man, TMI) but I'm going in to clean it up now.
- Volunteering for curate: A Groupie
- KEEP: Just curated and organized page. Removed a lot of the BAWWWWW stuff, sequestered stuff that couldn't be removed to skippable sections (e.g. people upset with Aspergers people can skip that part).
Too Kinky To Torture
- Not all examples are hyperbolic Saw meets FetishFuel entries.
Kissing Cousins
Cut: Same problem as Incest Yay.
Keep:
- Like Incest Yay, the problem is potential, not actual. This one's had plenty of time to go bad if it was going to — several years. It hasn't yet.
- Most of them don't specify what degree of cousin-hood is involved.
- Most are simply about crushes on a cousin.
- Only taboo in certain regions.
- Only illegal in about half the US, and even then, only when 1st cousins are involved.
Power Perversion Potential
Cut:
- Requires superhuman powers, therefore, impossible in real life
- Could validly apply to rps, and other personal media that doesn't fit on the main page.
- The non-canon speculation and fanwanks would be moved to the WMG or YMMV page for the appropriate work. Troper Tales is for personal experiences with the trope.
Genius Bonus
Cut: Hey, making obscure references means I'm smart. Let me tell you about this time I referenced Haruhi and Freelancer and nobody else understood me because they are stupid. (This is a paraphrase of a real example.)
Cut: This one time, someone made an obscure reference, and naturally, I was the only one who got it in the whole room. I can tell because nobody else shouted out "Hahaha! I got that! I'm so smart!"
Keep: Will probably be fine when the hammer comes down on ego-stroking.
Keep: serves its purpose being here, when used well, can be used to add some free education. Paraphrasing a complained in the forum thread, "the possibility of attracting occasional bad examples doesn't make the page unsalvageable because bad examples can be removed".
Yuri Fan
Cut: More Fetish Fuel But More Specific. We really don't need to know what you get off on.
Keep: Most of them are harmless, and Curation could help get rid of the "bad ones"
Cut: If Yaoi Fangirl gets cut, so should this.
Willing to Curate: Feinoha
Everything's Better On Drugs
- Pro: Illegal activity in the US and some other countries and boasting.
- Pro: This is TV Tropes, not "I do drugs all the time am I cool yet?" tropes.
- Con: Not all possible drugs are illegal and it is not the point of this Wiki to make a statement that Drugs Are Bad. If we want that, there's a Drugs Are Bad troper tales page. Needs example cleanout but can work. I'm working on it right now.
- Con: Not all description of personal experience is "am I cool yet" bragging.
The Woobie (More sympathy-fishing)
- Keep: Some of these examples aren't very Narm, and are kind of touching. Sympathy Fishing is not bad all of the time.
Boobs of Steel
Pro for cut: Potential for a lot of ego-stroking, basically "I kick ass and have large boobs" in one page.
Con: Hasn't had creepy examples so far.
Chaste Hero
- Potential ego-stroking and nice guy-ing.
Thanks For The Mammary
- Cut: How "accidental" these are come into question, and it's just creepy. Not enough entries that are simply funny anecdotes.
- Keep: There are plenty of good, legitimate examples that shouldn't be thrown out with the bathwater.
Het Is Ew
Cut: Bigotry in action. Two wrongs don't make a right.
You're Drinking Breast Milk
Pro: Please stop milking this fetish.
Con: Currently has only one example, and it's legitimate. There is no mention of the fetish on the page.
- Besides, the trope is accidentally drinking breast milk. Not fetishizing it.
She's Got Legs
- CUT: Ego-stroking, potentially fetishistic.
Elevator Going Down
Con:
- No problems a vigilant curator can't fix. (no curators at this time)
- Only has one example anyway.
Bound And Gagged
Cut: CREEP MAGNET. Seriously. Ewww.
Senseless Phagia
- Keep: The trope isn't inherently sexual, no reason that the TT page will be once the single bad example is deleted. It's not ego-stroking, sociopathic, or sexual.
- Cut: Without locking, no point in keeping a page with no good examples. Can be recreated later if someone has a good example.
- Keep: The above mentioned disgusting entry no longer exists and has been replaced with a more simpler example.
Casual Kink
Pro: TMI. There are some aspects of troper lives we just do not want to hear about, and this is one of them.
Con: No visible problems currently, no potential ones a vigilant curator can't fix.
Volunteering to curate: Hershele Ostropoler
Innocent Fanservice Girl
Pro: The ratio of creepy to entertaining on any tale on this page is not going to be good. In some cases, it is not going to be defined.
Con: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix. (see here)
Volunteering to curate: FrodoGoofballCoTV (If no one else wants it)
Accidental Pervert
- Cut: Much not-so-accidental stuff and fantasizing here. And a ton of me-me-me ego stroking and creepy sex stuff, some underage.
Manic Pixie Dream Girl
Pro: Mostly talking about Cloud Cuckoo Lander in a romantic setting which is not what this trope is.
Con: No problems a vigilant curator can't fix, such as Vorpy, who volunteers.
All Of The Other Reindeer
- Cut: Many tropers forget that this trope is about helping the people who are mean to you, and turn it into a bitchfest instead.
- Keep: Nothing a curator can't fix (up for grabs, whoever wants it)
Moe
- Cut:Describing yourself as moe is not moe. It's disingenuousness, which is the antithesis of moe.
- Keep: Some things can be Moe that you've seen in real life.
Teacher Student Romance
Cut: Mostly hypothetical lusting for handsome teachers.
Keep: Also some interesting examples of how this occurs IRL if it's an actual anecdote. Could be kept if fantasy scenarios are purged.
Volunteer for curate: Insanity Addict
Friends With Benefits
Pro: TMI?
Cons: Stories are kinda sweet, and not really explicit. Hershele Ostropoler will watch it to try and keep it that way.
Brain Bleach
- Cut: Self-demonstrating and after reading this page you'll need some
Chivalrous Pervert
CUT: Ego-stroking and penis-stroking at the same time makes for a rather disgusting read.
Happy Ending Massage
- CUT: We do NOT need a Troper Tales page for this!
- Keep: Doesn't actually contain examples that end up in sex, just subversions.
You Need To Get Laid
Keep:
- Not overtly sexual and less self-woobie-ing than might be feared
- No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix
Cloud Cuckoolander
Cut: Gushing
Keep: Silly and harmless
Volunteering to curate: FrodoGoofballCoTV (If no one else wants it)
See here for an example of editing.
I Didn't Mean To Turn You On (Kinda fetishistic.)
I'm A Man I Can't Help It
CUT: More troper sexual shit.
CUT: More troper sexual shit.
Disabled Hottie
- CUT: Objectification and creepy, as well as being Fetish Fuel
Jade Colored Glasses
Con: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix. (no curators at this time)
Love Dodecahedron
Cut: If I wanted directions, I'd look at a road map.
Keep: Some amusing examples between all the boring A-B-C-etc. tripe. Could be salvaged if an encouragement to flesh out the details (such as using fake names if at least to make it easier to read) is posted at page top.
Wouldn't Hurt A Child
Cut: Disturbing aversions posted.
Keep: They have since been removed and the page is being monitored.
Volunteering to curate: Troacctid, Losing Streak
What Kind Of Lame Power Is Heart Anyway
- CUT: Superpowers don't exist in Real Life, and there's way too much ego-stroking over mundane things in here. I see no way curation could fix this.
Even The Guys Want Him
- Pro: A list where guy tropers list which celebrities and fictional characters turn them on. Here's this, then thereeeeee's the TV Tropes site mission.
- Con: Below the list of celebrities is a list of personal examples that would make a decent TT page if patroled for egostroking.
- Volunteering for curate: Yamii Denryuu
Fanon Discontinuity
Cut: Might as well be renamed License To Whine: The Page.
Keep: many entries are funny, people say not to just bitch.
Keep: it serves its intended purpose being in Troper Tales and not, say, Trivia. At most it needs cleaning.
Angst What Angst
- Pro: Self-congratulatory back patting and wangst from the people who wrote about themselve in most cases.
- Con: The entries about other people seem legitimate. A Wiki Curator could probably moderate it.
Author Appeal
- Cut: Half Fetish Fuel, half "I Know someone who writes and here's what I got out of their writings."
- Keep: Tame compared with some of the other pages. Not all of the entries are of the sexual kind.
Hollywood Pudgy
- A lot of asking for pity/reassurance, equating to ego-stroking.
What Beautiful Eyes
- Cut: Nothing but ego-stroking. The only entry about someone else is "My friend has very big brown eyes, therye pretty". Also, check out Miss Mary Sue in the fourth bullet.
- Keep: Has the potential to be talking about other people and to have examples that don't seem made up completely.
Creepy Child
Cut: Rampant snowflaking/ego-stroking.
Keep: No problems a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix.
Volunteering to Curate: Amp
After editing example: Creepy Childedited
Offscreen Teleportation
- Cut: So how could this happen in Real Life?
- Keep: Everyone acknowledges this can't literally happen; they're sharing anecdotes of how it can damn well seem like it did.
Big Breasts Big Deal
- Pro for cut: People don't really need to know about your cup size. Also has the potential for more "Can I be your boyfriend?" responses.
- Con for cut: No really objectionable or problematic examples to date.
- Willing to curate: blamspam
Did You Just Have Sex
- CUT: More "fun" with tropers' sex lives and TMI.
ReallyGetsAround
Another sex trope, invites ego-stoking.
Ethical Slut
Pro: Largely aversions that reflect rather poorly on the people posting them.
Con: No problems a vigilant curator can't fix. Has already been cleaned up and is being watched.
Volunteering to curate: Troacctid
Obfuscating Stupidity
Volunteer to Curate: Madrugada
Chekhov's Lecture (Narrative conventions can't happen in real life.)
For keeping:
- But they can happen in RP Gs and Troper Works, as mentioned above.
- And pages for Troper Works don't cover Table Top RP Gs.
- Some Tropers have participated in theatrical plays.
- Narrative conventions can be and are projected in real life. And when it happens, it can provide some metaphysical or hillarious moments worth of sharing.
- We have pages for Troper Works, so we don't need troper tales for that.
Squick (self-demonstrating)
How Did That Get In There
- CUT: Sex TMI about a Porn Stash (which should go on that page were it to not be zapped for being underage)
If It's You It's Okay
Might as well be merged with "Even the Guys Want Him", because that's what the examples are (they share the same flaws)
I Have Boobs You Must Obey
Keep: The current page is perfectly healthy and being monitored. It contains amusing anecdotes that aren't disturbing or anything.
Cut: This is one of those pages where some would consider a "perfectly healthy" tale a contradiction in terms.
Volunteering to curate: Troacctid
The crowner is not the place for you to post your opinion. That's what the thread is for.
God
- For cutting: A flame war waiting to happen, and many small ones have already happened.
- For Keeping: I am patrolling the article as we speak, and will only allow civil respectful entries to be added. All of the bad edits, arguing natter and disrespect have been ripped off the page. This page is no longer a problem.
The crowner is not the place for you to post your opinion. That's what the thread is for.
Distracted By The Sexy
- Cut: Obvious. Yet more ego-stroking and sexual TMI.
- Keep: You don't have to, and probably don't need to, go into the TMI details to share funny stories of how this happened in your life or R Ps. The majority of examples are tame and aren't "I cause this all the time"-ego-stroking.
The crowner is not the place for you to post your opinion. That's what the thread is for.
Die For Our Ship
- Cut: Shipping preferences and ego-stroking. Could become Flame Bait as well.
The crowner is not the place for you to post your opinion. That's what the thread is for.
My Girl Is A Slut
KEEP: Has only a few entries, can be redefined to have the slutiness removed and be a valid place to express sentiments of girl promiscuity and for victims of polyamory to speak out, COULD work if cleaned up and watched, doesn't have many examples and hasn't gone bad yet so any reason to cut it is just speculation, a lot of it is funny, "illegal" is culture-dependent and arbitrary and it's not the job of the wiki to enforce the law, should be available for roleplaying characters. The current page doesn't seem to have any issues, and the issues it does have are nothing that a vigilant Wiki Curator can't fix.
Volunteer to curate: Hershele Ostropoler
Badass Creed (Ego-stroking. Can definitely benefit from being limited to "mainstream" examples, like: Family motto, military unit, and so on.)
Even The Girls Want Her
- Pro: A list where girl tropers list which celebrities and fictional characters turn them on. Here's this, then thereeeeee's the TV Tropes site mission.
- Con: Below the list of celebrities is a list of personal examples that would make a decent TT page if patroled for egostroking.
- Volunteering for curate: Yamii Denryuu
Not Good With People
- Cut: Lost the meaning of the trope awhile ago (preferring non-human company), and now it's just a place to post how socially awkward you are.
- Keep: A Wiki Curator can monitor and fix.
Chekhov's Gun
Pro:
- Narrative conventions can't happen in real life.
- We have pages for Troper Works, so we don't need troper tales for that.
- They don't need to happen in Real Life to have Troper Tales about them. The page can and should contain examples that occur in role-playing games or Troper works.
- Troper Works doesn't include RP Gs
- Things that look a lot like narrative conventions can happen in real life.
Dude, Where's My Respect?
Con: Only one example that's obviously a parody. Not good, but still not reason enough to ax.
Awesome Moments In Military Service For deleting: Ego-stroking. Potential for sociopathic boasting about killing other people.
For Keeping: Quite a bit of it is praising other people instead of ego stroking. Sociopathic boasting can be kept in check via curation.
Volunteer to curate: Dontcallmewave
Awesome Moments Of Standing Up To Criminals
- For deleting:(Ego-stroking, also, a Troper Tales page when there's no main page. Why?)
- For Keeping: Quite a bit of it is praising other people instead of ego stroking, and ego-stroking examples can be curated out. And as for the second argument, its a subpage, since the CMOA page got too big.
Gamer Chick
Cut:
- Possible sexism, may attract flame bait,
- Same problems as the Give Geeks a Chance page, it's basically a spot to brag about being a woman on the internet and receive all that geek attention.
- Contentless, there is nothing interesting about most of the anecdotes beyond "I am a woman who plays video games."
Awesome Moments Of Standing Up To Bullies For deleting:(Ego-stroking, also, a Troper Tales page when there's no main page. Why?)
For Keeping: Quite a bit of it is praising other people instead of ego stroking.And as for the second argument, its a subpage, since the CMOA page got too big.
Volunteer to curate: Dontcallmewave
Caught With Your Pants Down
Pro: Choice entry - "[..] Once I thought [my sister] was asleep on the couch, and I somehow managed to avert this by hiding under my blankets and putting my clothes back on after performing autofellatio."
Con: The above example is followed by a discussion of the anatomical possibility of the act itself, which is quite chucklesome.
Con: Explicitness can be toned down, hilarious dialogues kept. Gonna volunteer for curating(Insanity Addict).
Coitus Ensues
Keep: NEEDS to be limited to fictional examples- preferably the "I once saw this movie" type rather than the "there's this RP I'm in" type- but the first few examples demonstrate this one is redeemable.
Groin Attack
Cut: A large amount of entries are glorifying violent/unnecessary attacks on innocent boys.
Cut: Many examples aren't strictly groin attacks
Keep: Nothing a decent Curator couldn't solve.
Knight In Sour Armor
FOR CUTTING:
- Entry after entry is "I'm a Deadpan Snarker in a Crapsack World" and musing on the morality of the world has tended to end in flame bait. Almost all of this is just saying "I was a cheerful kid, but that girl who rejected me in high school made me like this but I'm over it T_T"
- Choice example: "I am a overly intellectual misanthropist, and the few people who can talk to me without becoming lost in my sesquipedalian loquaciousness find that every word that leaves my brooding mind to slip past my perpetually down-turned lips is so wry, sardonic, and overly well backed up that they have no choice but to bend to my every argument when ever I choose to debate about morality, politics, and the nature of humanity."
- Entries and neither offensive nor disturbing. They simply present the way some tropers, for whatever reason, view the world around them, which is surely not the reason for cutting.
- The example given in "for cutting" point of view is not typical. Such rare examples of ego-stroking can be monitored.
Black Bra And Panties
CUT
- This can go NOWHERE good.
- There's nothing inherently wrong with the page. There's one
- It's been around quite a while and it hasn't gone bad yet. The possibility that it might sometime in the future is no reason to cut it.
- If it's trying to go somewhere bad, it will be stopped.
Marshmallow Hell:
- Pro for cut: Most of it is responses to the examples of "OH GOD THAT'S HOT!"
- Con: No problems a vigilant curator can't fix.
- Volunteering to curate: blamspam
Eerie Pale Skinned Brunette
- Pro: A choice entry: "This troper isn't one, but sure finds them attractive. ;)" as well as one claiming to have doglike Cute Little Fangs. Has a lot of the problems the entries for the Eerie Pale-Skinned Brunette trope had before the name change.
- Con: Nothing a Wiki Curator can't monitor and fix.
- Willing to curate: blamspam
A-Cup Angst
Cut: We don't really want to hear about your unhappiness with your breast size, either
Keep: Sure we do! It's amusing, it's not disturbing or anything, and it isn't hurting anyone.
- There are no creepy or vastly inappropriate examples on the page that would merit a cut.
- This is not a Fetish Fuel But More Specific page either, after reading the examples. Some people may like it, but that's not what this page is about, making it so that new examples have to consist of more than "I think smaller breasts are hawt", meriting it's keeping compared to other pages.
Determinator
Keep: No major issues in its current incarnation and should be fine with monitoring.
I Thought Everyone Could Do That
Cut:
- Snowflaking.
- Nobody even bothers to pretend this has anything to do with the trope, which is about thinking other people have the talent too.
Sadist Teacher
Pro: Disturbing violent sociopathic undertones.
Con: We can get rid of the problems and there'll still be plenty of room for good anecdotes here.
Hikikomori
Con: Subject looks like it has potential if held to proper standards
GettingCrapPastTheRadar
- Cut: Doesn't really work with Troper Tales
- Keep: Actually, it does.
Headphones Equal Isolation
Con: No ego-stroking, mostly good examples, why was this nominated exactly?
Volunteer to curate: Hershele Ostropoler
Stop Being Stereotypical
Keep:
The Combat Pragmatist (Possibly ego-stroking, but pretty decent potential if we disallow that)
Defeat By Modesty
Keep: Has the potential to be humorous. Currently has only one example, but not reason enough to ax the entire page either. (That was fixed, because I wrote it. —Vorpy)
Volunteering for curate: Vorpy, Chihuahua0
Surreal Horror (If not satire, self-demonstrating.)
Con: KEEP IT! It's like the textual version of Art of Life! A masterpiece, if a sad one
Abuse Is Okay When It Is Female On Male
After: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Sandbox/AbuseIsOkayWhenItIsFemaleOnMaleclean
- Cut: Obvious complaining outlet.
- Keep: Allowing an abused population to speak out and possibly seek help.
After: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Sandbox/AbuseIsOkayWhenItIsFemaleOnMaleclean
All Gays Are Pedophiles
Cut: This can easily degenerate into people posting homophobic opinions.
Keep: No offensive content has been added to date, and the tone of the article is soundly against homophobic attitudes. Will probably be fine with curation, which there is already a volunteer for.
Awesome Moments In Gaming
- CUT: Bragging page for personal video game victories. Serves no other purpose.
- CON: Video Games exist to have fun. By their very nature that involves telling others of your stories when you preform incredible acts of skill - especially in today's age of internet gaming.
Proud To Be A Geek
Pro: Lapses into ego-stroking and snowflaking
Con: Plenty of good material there, curation can zap the rest
Tsundere
- Keep - Other than the general dislike for Anime-named Tropes, this had no reason to be put up here in the first place. The troper tales are clean and lack any extremely objectionable material.
May December Romance
KEEP: The youngest people described are teenagers.
Kuudere
- CON: There is no visible problem with this.
- CON: And the "Are you me?" conversation is really funny.
Ho Yay
- Cut: Anecdotes... about homosexuality? Or at least anything that may seem like homosexuality? This is People Sit On Chairs. *Painfully.
- Keep: No problems so far, apparently.
Father I Want To Marry My Brother
Keep: This is not Exactly What It Says on the Tin (go read the trope). None of the current examples show any problems; they're mostly harmless (maybe a bit embarrassing) tales of childhood innocence. This will obviously need monitoring, but it can work.
Victoria's Secret Compartment (What do you carry in your bra?)
- Keep: The current page doesn't seem to have any issues.
- Keep: If kept out of the "beyond inappropriate" and "illegal" categories, this trope can survive.
- Cut: If the trope was instead about males stuffing their underwear with their possessions, would it be kept?
- Sure, why not?
Hitler Ate Sugar (He also would support keeping this page up.)
Epic Fail
- Keep: Nothing wrong, and several examples are hilarious.
Idiot Programming
- Keep: Nothing wrong with this.
- Keep: It seems to just be some humorous anecdotes; not really a problem.
Scribblenauts
- Keep: Everyone's experience with the game is unique.
- Keep: It was decided to make the page before the game was released, so its not like its a natter dump.
- Keep: Tropers may try or discover things they wouldn't if they only played.
Total posts: 1,358
procedural note: Voting in the crowner will close at midnight board time (pacific). We'll also lock this thread at that point.
Pages having a 4 to 1 "cut it" ratio or higher will get moved out of the wiki to invisible storage, pending outcome of the "okay, now how do we implement this?" discussion.
Pages having a 3 to 1 ratio or less with a curator will pass out of this discussion as resolved.
Pages at 2:1 and 1:1 with no curator will be moved into another crowner for a focused discussion in a new thread. Hopefully that thread will be able to focus on finding a common ground for the opposing camps to agree on.
Everything with a 0:1 or less ratio is off the hook and goes back to being just another Troper Tales page.
Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty