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Pretty much the whole (long-ass) Broken Base section has less to do with their content and more to do with (somewhat natter-y) complaining about fandom drama, race relations, and record industry politics. Some issues are stated to have died down or are pertaining mainly to a Vocal Minority (both against the criteria for Broken Base entries). I'm pretty sure only a Vocal Minority cares about whether or not BTS should even be considered K-pop, even if they're not the most conventional artists in the industry.
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* BrokenBase:
** Around 2015, this was the case for Big Hit Entertainment and Bang PD in general, regarding whether they were a company who takes good care of BTS, or exploited them because they are [[CashCowFranchise profitable]], and whether BTS were overworked or they worked such insane schedules because they themselves wish to please the fans. Over the years, though, this has gradually died down as [=BigHit=] kept gaining resources and improving in management, along with the fact that only more and more evidence has come from the members themselves (documentaries like ''Series/BurnTheStage'', interviews, personal tweets and Fancafe[=/=]Weverse posts, their attitude towards the company and Bang PD in general, RM outright asking fans to trust them regarding their schedule decisions) that they have a much less vertical relationship with Bang PD than what would typically be the case, that they do what they do out of genuine enjoyment or self-imposed goals, and that they're very comfortable in the company (and vocally so). See MisaimedFandom though.
*** It's also well-known that Bang PD was the one who told BTS to "tell [their] own stories". [[https://kpopduck.com/post/168890283183/idol-maker-bang-shi-hyuk-ceo-a-company-that/amp?__twitter_impression=true As this old interview reveals]], his method was very intentionally ''not'' controlling them: he simply asked them to develop and grow as artists and to display a true interest in music, giving them assignments and letting them decide the rest (schedules, lessons) by themselves. He also refuses to be called "BTS' father", preferring to be seen as a ''hyung''[[note]]an older male figure in the vein of a brother[[/note]] and crediting BTS and fans for their achievements.
*** The JTBC incident (where someone from the JTBC TV station irrupted into BH's building and took "proof" that BTS was suing their company for uneven wage distribution, only for BH and BTS to debunk the existence of any lawsuit) ended up with [=BigHit=] declaring that [[https://twitter.com/modooborahae/status/1204145430680023047 not only do the company and BTS acknowledge each other as equal partners as of the newest contract renewal]], but that ''[=BigHit=]'' had recommended that the members and their families seek external lawyers and advisors so legal discussions would be fairer for the members.
** ''American Hustle Life'': An educational experience for the boys to interact with L.A. culture? A cringey, mildly-xenophobic show where the boys constantly get put in uncomfortable situations? All of the above? [[TakeAThirdOption A growing consensus]] seems to be that it was [[http://reappropriate.co/2017/12/respect-must-be-earned-bts-journey-towards-gaining-its-stripes-in-black-america/ crucial for BTS's growth in their interaction with black culture]] and one of the keys for their later success, but it's still hard to watch for many.
*** Certain elements (like the kidnapping CandidCameraPrank[[note]]where the boys were made to believe they were ''actually being kidnapped by strangers''[[/note]] and Coolio's harsh treatment of the members), are still contested regarding whether they were actually funny, tasteful or necessary.
** While there's some cross-over, our ARMY experience will vary depending on the social media platform you use the most. Twitter [=ARMYs=] (where the fandom has historically been the most organized) are the most critical of fans from other platforms, particularly Facebook and Instagram [=ARMYs=], where the fandom is far less regulated and therefore stereotypical "toxic/obsessive fan" behavior abounds, while Twitter [=ARMYs=] are seen in some places as overly combative or records-obsessed. That said, the immense growth of the fandom on Twitter has also resulted in various different circles where discourse can differ a lot (which has lead to certain portions of MisaimedFandom also growing while still remaining a VocalMinority).
*** To a lesser extent, Youtube [=ARMYs=]. Youtube is one of the main platforms (if not ''the'' main platform) where people learn about BTS, the fandom and its in-jokes; it's also one of the main sources of the so-called "no jams" behavior (see DiscreditedMeme), and where misinformation (from small trivia to the toxically speculative) easily abounds. Some accounts (like Jaeguchi and Lemoring) also have a tendency to upload songs with often-reposted-and-uncredited (if not outright wrong) English translations affecting views in official videos, even when it's completely unnecessary[[note]]almost all of BTS' music videos have official English subtitles upon release[[/note]]. These are, however, also an important entry to the fandom, especially in the case of Soundcloud-only songs like "DDAENG".
** Similarly (and in a way that often overlaps with the above), your fandom experience might vary a lot if you frequent more multi-fandom kpop circles[[note]]that is, circles of people who follow 2 or more kpop groups[[/note]] than purely ARMY ones - given the history between ARMY and other kpop fandoms (see FandomRivalry for details), staying only or even mainly in multifandom circles will almost surely make you miss out or get only an outsider perspective on complex discussions within ARMY Twitter - with ARMY-multis becoming somewhat infamous for tending to have a shallow understanding of several issues, as well as sometimes projecting issues of other fandoms, groups, and/or companies towards ARMY, BTS, and/or HYBE (or at least assuming those issues also apply on the latter).
** BTS, Kpop, and the coverage of both in Western media. Should BTS' achievements in the US be considered wins for Kpop as whole, like many articles like to present it as (often recommending other Kpop groups in the same breath)? Should BTS' success be seen as a sign for other Kpop artists to also cross into the US mainstream? Or should BTS be seen as a phenomenon on their own?
*** On one hand, BTS' success ''could'' be seen as an opportunity for other Korean idol groups to obtain more visibility in the US market - which some of them have done, to some extent -, as well as a way to bring more diversity to the pop music industry via Asian representation; reducing the phenomenon to only one group would then be limiting access for other artists, [[TokenMinority as well as falling into]] [[YouAreACreditToYourRace exceptionalism]]. Not to mention that introducing Kpop in general along with BTS is pretty much unavoidable for a largely unfamiliar audience.
*** On the other hand, the atypical nature of BTS compared to most Korean idol groups, the growing divide between [=ARMYs=] and the rest of the Kpop fan community, and the '''''vast''''' difference between BTS's steady climb in the US charts versus what other Kpop groups have managed to achieve[[note]][[https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/8500522/k-pop-trans-world-entertainment-retail-hanteo-korea-charts?utm_source=twitter&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral According to Nielsen Music's data]], 1.6 million out of 2.2 million consumption units of K-pop groups in the US in 2018 came from BTS alone, and even the album consumption units of the other 16 Korean acts ''combined'' (570,000) didn't surpass BTS' (668,000). Aside from PSY, no other Korean artist has managed to stay on Billboard's Hot 100 for more than one week, let alone get in the Top 10; changes in Billboard's charting system in mid-2018 also made Youtube views lose significance, making an entry in [=Hot100=] even harder to achieve for acts reliant on the old criteria.[[/note]] might indicate that BTS's success doesn't exactly guarantee that other Kpop groups will be able to do the same. Having BTS constantly presented by Western media as part of a "package deal" with Kpop has also been criticized for equating all groups in artistry and quality merely for being from the same country and language, instead of treating BTS as artists in their own right.
*** Media's promotion of Kpop based on BTS' success has also been questioned by some for presenting it as Asian representation while only focusing on Korean idol groups, ignoring other Korean artists, artists from other Asian countries, and Western artists with Asian roots.
** Even more controversially, "Kpop". Being a long debated term in itself (notably originated in, again, Western media), it has come to be associated with ''idol'' groups rather than Korean pop music in general, with the Korean idol industry at large having a reputation of manufactured music and controversial practices that has unfortunately bled into the perception of BTS in the West. This is why many [=ARMYs=] prefer to distance BTS from the term, embracing claims from Korean critics that BTS are "beyond" or "more than" idols or Kpop. However, given BTS' proud self-labeling as both idols and artists, other fans have argued that there's no point in trying to separate BTS from Kpop, as they are still Korean idols who make Korean pop music - and that it would just be perpetuating the stereotypes that BTS and other artists are challenging.
*** This is made more complicated by the habit of some people (including, [[RuleOfThree once again]], Western media) of either only focusing on idols in their coverage of Korean music, or labeling ''anything'' from South Korea as Kpop, regardless of genre. For example, even though RM's ''mono.'' could easily be classified as "indie" or "alternative", it still appears in Apple Music under the "K-pop" category, leading to wrong assumptions from potential listeners (including, in one case, a radio DJ).
*** On the other hand, as it was already made clear in "IDOL" and their interviews in the Grammy studio and Entertainment Weekly, there's also the fact that BTS themselves don't mind the label of "Kpop artists" or labels in general. SUGA even explicitly accepts the term, though he defines it as a music/visuals/dance package rather than a music genre, while RM admitted years later that he's not really sure of what Kpop even is exactly.
*** Another point of view is that "Kpop" (used either as "Korean pop" or as "idol music") ''is'' applicable and, if maybe only to an extent, accurate to BTS, but (much like with other Korean artists) it's ''insufficient'' to really describe BTS's music, so using it persistently as BTS' ''only'' label erases BTS' unique artistry, identity, and story.
** The presence of a VocalMinority that goes out of their way to paint Big Hit[=/=]HYBE as a company that "mistreats" the members (see MisaimedFandom), along with by parts of Twitter (often multis and/or fan artists, aka. people who in an attempt to stay out of drama often end up missing out on bigger fandom conversations) making blanket "anticapitalist" statements about the company [[note]]("all big companies treat their artists like X, therefore [=BigHit=] does it too", or using superficial notions of "capitalism" as an argument to demand lower prices for merch[[/note]], has made other parts of the fandom extremely wary of criticism of the company even if they come for a more genuine critical position - while anyone who defends [=BigHit=] or their practices is quickly labeled by the former as a "company stan" who supposedly cares more about the company than the members. This has all led to generalizations of and knee-jerk reactions among different parts of the fandom on Twitter.
** "Dynamite" - not as much in itself (as it's very well-liked as a song in the fandom), but for what it means for BTS as a BlackSheepHit: their first English single, with lyrics lacking their distinctive lyricism due to not being written by the members... and their first #1 hit on Billboard and Grammy-nominated song. A great, charming song that perfectly achieves its purpose of bringing joy in a style that remains true to BTS and tributes Michael Jackson and the disco genre, a single with good sound but cheesy lyrics that marks a precedent for BTS needing to make songs in English without their trademark songwriting to truly receive attention in the US industry, or a complex mix of both?
** Around 2015, this was the case for Big Hit Entertainment and Bang PD in general, regarding whether they were a company who takes good care of BTS, or exploited them because they are [[CashCowFranchise profitable]], and whether BTS were overworked or they worked such insane schedules because they themselves wish to please the fans. Over the years, though, this has gradually died down as [=BigHit=] kept gaining resources and improving in management, along with the fact that only more and more evidence has come from the members themselves (documentaries like ''Series/BurnTheStage'', interviews, personal tweets and Fancafe[=/=]Weverse posts, their attitude towards the company and Bang PD in general, RM outright asking fans to trust them regarding their schedule decisions) that they have a much less vertical relationship with Bang PD than what would typically be the case, that they do what they do out of genuine enjoyment or self-imposed goals, and that they're very comfortable in the company (and vocally so). See MisaimedFandom though.
*** It's also well-known that Bang PD was the one who told BTS to "tell [their] own stories". [[https://kpopduck.com/post/168890283183/idol-maker-bang-shi-hyuk-ceo-a-company-that/amp?__twitter_impression=true As this old interview reveals]], his method was very intentionally ''not'' controlling them: he simply asked them to develop and grow as artists and to display a true interest in music, giving them assignments and letting them decide the rest (schedules, lessons) by themselves. He also refuses to be called "BTS' father", preferring to be seen as a ''hyung''[[note]]an older male figure in the vein of a brother[[/note]] and crediting BTS and fans for their achievements.
*** The JTBC incident (where someone from the JTBC TV station irrupted into BH's building and took "proof" that BTS was suing their company for uneven wage distribution, only for BH and BTS to debunk the existence of any lawsuit) ended up with [=BigHit=] declaring that [[https://twitter.com/modooborahae/status/1204145430680023047 not only do the company and BTS acknowledge each other as equal partners as of the newest contract renewal]], but that ''[=BigHit=]'' had recommended that the members and their families seek external lawyers and advisors so legal discussions would be fairer for the members.
** ''American Hustle Life'': An educational experience for the boys to interact with L.A. culture? A cringey, mildly-xenophobic show where the boys constantly get put in uncomfortable situations? All of the above? [[TakeAThirdOption A growing consensus]] seems to be that it was [[http://reappropriate.co/2017/12/respect-must-be-earned-bts-journey-towards-gaining-its-stripes-in-black-america/ crucial for BTS's growth in their interaction with black culture]] and one of the keys for their later success, but it's still hard to watch for many.
*** Certain elements (like the kidnapping CandidCameraPrank[[note]]where the boys were made to believe they were ''actually being kidnapped by strangers''[[/note]] and Coolio's harsh treatment of the members), are still contested regarding whether they were actually funny, tasteful or necessary.
** While there's some cross-over, our ARMY experience will vary depending on the social media platform you use the most. Twitter [=ARMYs=] (where the fandom has historically been the most organized) are the most critical of fans from other platforms, particularly Facebook and Instagram [=ARMYs=], where the fandom is far less regulated and therefore stereotypical "toxic/obsessive fan" behavior abounds, while Twitter [=ARMYs=] are seen in some places as overly combative or records-obsessed. That said, the immense growth of the fandom on Twitter has also resulted in various different circles where discourse can differ a lot (which has lead to certain portions of MisaimedFandom also growing while still remaining a VocalMinority).
*** To a lesser extent, Youtube [=ARMYs=]. Youtube is one of the main platforms (if not ''the'' main platform) where people learn about BTS, the fandom and its in-jokes; it's also one of the main sources of the so-called "no jams" behavior (see DiscreditedMeme), and where misinformation (from small trivia to the toxically speculative) easily abounds. Some accounts (like Jaeguchi and Lemoring) also have a tendency to upload songs with often-reposted-and-uncredited (if not outright wrong) English translations affecting views in official videos, even when it's completely unnecessary[[note]]almost all of BTS' music videos have official English subtitles upon release[[/note]]. These are, however, also an important entry to the fandom, especially in the case of Soundcloud-only songs like "DDAENG".
** Similarly (and in a way that often overlaps with the above), your fandom experience might vary a lot if you frequent more multi-fandom kpop circles[[note]]that is, circles of people who follow 2 or more kpop groups[[/note]] than purely ARMY ones - given the history between ARMY and other kpop fandoms (see FandomRivalry for details), staying only or even mainly in multifandom circles will almost surely make you miss out or get only an outsider perspective on complex discussions within ARMY Twitter - with ARMY-multis becoming somewhat infamous for tending to have a shallow understanding of several issues, as well as sometimes projecting issues of other fandoms, groups, and/or companies towards ARMY, BTS, and/or HYBE (or at least assuming those issues also apply on the latter).
** BTS, Kpop, and the coverage of both in Western media. Should BTS' achievements in the US be considered wins for Kpop as whole, like many articles like to present it as (often recommending other Kpop groups in the same breath)? Should BTS' success be seen as a sign for other Kpop artists to also cross into the US mainstream? Or should BTS be seen as a phenomenon on their own?
*** On one hand, BTS' success ''could'' be seen as an opportunity for other Korean idol groups to obtain more visibility in the US market - which some of them have done, to some extent -, as well as a way to bring more diversity to the pop music industry via Asian representation; reducing the phenomenon to only one group would then be limiting access for other artists, [[TokenMinority as well as falling into]] [[YouAreACreditToYourRace exceptionalism]]. Not to mention that introducing Kpop in general along with BTS is pretty much unavoidable for a largely unfamiliar audience.
*** On the other hand, the atypical nature of BTS compared to most Korean idol groups, the growing divide between [=ARMYs=] and the rest of the Kpop fan community, and the '''''vast''''' difference between BTS's steady climb in the US charts versus what other Kpop groups have managed to achieve[[note]][[https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/8500522/k-pop-trans-world-entertainment-retail-hanteo-korea-charts?utm_source=twitter&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral According to Nielsen Music's data]], 1.6 million out of 2.2 million consumption units of K-pop groups in the US in 2018 came from BTS alone, and even the album consumption units of the other 16 Korean acts ''combined'' (570,000) didn't surpass BTS' (668,000). Aside from PSY, no other Korean artist has managed to stay on Billboard's Hot 100 for more than one week, let alone get in the Top 10; changes in Billboard's charting system in mid-2018 also made Youtube views lose significance, making an entry in [=Hot100=] even harder to achieve for acts reliant on the old criteria.[[/note]] might indicate that BTS's success doesn't exactly guarantee that other Kpop groups will be able to do the same. Having BTS constantly presented by Western media as part of a "package deal" with Kpop has also been criticized for equating all groups in artistry and quality merely for being from the same country and language, instead of treating BTS as artists in their own right.
*** Media's promotion of Kpop based on BTS' success has also been questioned by some for presenting it as Asian representation while only focusing on Korean idol groups, ignoring other Korean artists, artists from other Asian countries, and Western artists with Asian roots.
** Even more controversially, "Kpop". Being a long debated term in itself (notably originated in, again, Western media), it has come to be associated with ''idol'' groups rather than Korean pop music in general, with the Korean idol industry at large having a reputation of manufactured music and controversial practices that has unfortunately bled into the perception of BTS in the West. This is why many [=ARMYs=] prefer to distance BTS from the term, embracing claims from Korean critics that BTS are "beyond" or "more than" idols or Kpop. However, given BTS' proud self-labeling as both idols and artists, other fans have argued that there's no point in trying to separate BTS from Kpop, as they are still Korean idols who make Korean pop music - and that it would just be perpetuating the stereotypes that BTS and other artists are challenging.
*** This is made more complicated by the habit of some people (including, [[RuleOfThree once again]], Western media) of either only focusing on idols in their coverage of Korean music, or labeling ''anything'' from South Korea as Kpop, regardless of genre. For example, even though RM's ''mono.'' could easily be classified as "indie" or "alternative", it still appears in Apple Music under the "K-pop" category, leading to wrong assumptions from potential listeners (including, in one case, a radio DJ).
*** On the other hand, as it was already made clear in "IDOL" and their interviews in the Grammy studio and Entertainment Weekly, there's also the fact that BTS themselves don't mind the label of "Kpop artists" or labels in general. SUGA even explicitly accepts the term, though he defines it as a music/visuals/dance package rather than a music genre, while RM admitted years later that he's not really sure of what Kpop even is exactly.
*** Another point of view is that "Kpop" (used either as "Korean pop" or as "idol music") ''is'' applicable and, if maybe only to an extent, accurate to BTS, but (much like with other Korean artists) it's ''insufficient'' to really describe BTS's music, so using it persistently as BTS' ''only'' label erases BTS' unique artistry, identity, and story.
** The presence of a VocalMinority that goes out of their way to paint Big Hit[=/=]HYBE as a company that "mistreats" the members (see MisaimedFandom), along with by parts of Twitter (often multis and/or fan artists, aka. people who in an attempt to stay out of drama often end up missing out on bigger fandom conversations) making blanket "anticapitalist" statements about the company [[note]]("all big companies treat their artists like X, therefore [=BigHit=] does it too", or using superficial notions of "capitalism" as an argument to demand lower prices for merch[[/note]], has made other parts of the fandom extremely wary of criticism of the company even if they come for a more genuine critical position - while anyone who defends [=BigHit=] or their practices is quickly labeled by the former as a "company stan" who supposedly cares more about the company than the members. This has all led to generalizations of and knee-jerk reactions among different parts of the fandom on Twitter.
** "Dynamite" - not as much in itself (as it's very well-liked as a song in the fandom), but for what it means for BTS as a BlackSheepHit: their first English single, with lyrics lacking their distinctive lyricism due to not being written by the members... and their first #1 hit on Billboard and Grammy-nominated song. A great, charming song that perfectly achieves its purpose of bringing joy in a style that remains true to BTS and tributes Michael Jackson and the disco genre, a single with good sound but cheesy lyrics that marks a precedent for BTS needing to make songs in English without their trademark songwriting to truly receive attention in the US industry, or a complex mix of both?
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None
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** Certain ones, like calling certain members old nicknames like "god of destruction", "alien", "horse" or "mom/[[GratuitousForeignLanguage eomma]]/pink princess", are seen as {{Flanderiz|ation}}ing or outright insulting in various ways when coming from fans, with members vocally expressing dislike for some of them. The fact that they've been ''very'' prevalent in fan-made "introduction to the members" videos partly explains the less-than-positive perception of Youtube [=ARMYs=] on Twitter. See also NeverLiveItDown below. It's worth pointing out that some [[VocalMinority smaller]] circles (particularly MisaimedFandom ones) can have the tendency to overcorrect, though.
to:
** Certain ones, like calling certain members old nicknames like "god of destruction", "alien", "horse" or "mom/[[GratuitousForeignLanguage eomma]]/pink princess", are seen as {{Flanderiz|ation}}ing or outright insulting in various ways when coming from fans, with members vocally expressing dislike for some of them. The fact that they've been ''very'' prevalent in fan-made "introduction to the members" videos partly explains the less-than-positive perception of Youtube [=ARMYs=] on Twitter. See also NeverLiveItDown below. It's worth pointing out that some [[VocalMinority smaller]] circles (particularly MisaimedFandom ones) can have the tendency to overcorrect, though.
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MAMAs Fandom Rivalry entry is more about non-fans in general rather than about Twice or IKON (whose songs those people said should have won instead). Never Live It Down seems content relevant, but close enough to real life to cut the section in an attempt to clean up the complaining on this page. Minority Show Ghetto sub-bullets are excess complaining.
Changed line(s) 23 (click to see context) from:
*** To a lesser extent, Youtube [=ARMYs=]. Youtube is one of the main platforms (if not ''the'' main platform) where people learn about BTS, the fandom and its in-jokes; it's also one of the main sources of the so-called "no jams" behavior (see DiscreditedMeme and NeverLiveItDown below), and where misinformation (from small trivia to the toxically speculative) easily abounds. Some accounts (like Jaeguchi and Lemoring) also have a tendency to upload songs with often-reposted-and-uncredited (if not outright wrong) English translations affecting views in official videos, even when it's completely unnecessary[[note]]almost all of BTS' music videos have official English subtitles upon release[[/note]]. These are, however, also an important entry to the fandom, especially in the case of Soundcloud-only songs like "DDAENG".
to:
*** To a lesser extent, Youtube [=ARMYs=]. Youtube is one of the main platforms (if not ''the'' main platform) where people learn about BTS, the fandom and its in-jokes; it's also one of the main sources of the so-called "no jams" behavior (see DiscreditedMeme and NeverLiveItDown below), DiscreditedMeme), and where misinformation (from small trivia to the toxically speculative) easily abounds. Some accounts (like Jaeguchi and Lemoring) also have a tendency to upload songs with often-reposted-and-uncredited (if not outright wrong) English translations affecting views in official videos, even when it's completely unnecessary[[note]]almost all of BTS' music videos have official English subtitles upon release[[/note]]. These are, however, also an important entry to the fandom, especially in the case of Soundcloud-only songs like "DDAENG".
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* FandomRivalry: BTS being one of the only K-pop acts to reach international megastardom comes with the side effect of spawning a lot of fan wars, some of which can get ''[[FlameWar really]]'' nasty.
to:
* FandomRivalry: BTS being one of the only K-pop acts to reach international megastardom comes with the side effect of spawning a lot of fan wars, wars with seemingly everyone else, some of which can get ''[[FlameWar really]]'' nasty.
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** At the 2019 [=MAMAs=], many non-fans were not very happy that BTS won all four major daesaengs. A lot of the outrage was directed towards the fact that Boy With Luv won Song of The Year. Non-fans felt that "Fancy" by the girl group Twice was more deserving of the award despite "Boy With Luv" having a much bigger impact on the charts locally and internationally. This same thing happened in 2018, with many kpop fans clamoring for IKON's "Love Scenario" to win Song of the Year instead of "Fake Love", which actually won.
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** A US radio made an article in 2018 citing issues that would need to be "resolved" if people wanted more BTS on US radio. The "solutions" included more US radio tours (extremely difficult to do consistently for a group from Korea)... and a 100% English release.
** That's not even getting to the various comments people in international media have made mocking or criticizing BTS purely based on racial and/or Korean-specific stereotypes. See FandomEnragingMisconception above.
** The [=VMAs=]' decision to completely ignore BTS in the 2019 nominations for main categories, instead relegating them to technical categories, the Best Collaboration category and the (newly created) Best K-pop category. While it's just one of several cases of awards shows supposedly based on popularity only considering BTS for categories related to fandom or social media, it became one of the most high-profile ones. The lack of consideration of BTS as as an artist on the same level of popularity as the Artist and Video of the Year nominees was especially apparent considering that all pictures of BTS in the voting site [[https://twitter.com/eleanorbate/status/1154046812774207488 initially had Halsey front-and-center with 2 members out of focus in the back]]. All of this led to the questioning by fans of the "Best K-pop" category, as well as MTV (and the Western music industry)'s history of ignoring or segregating non-white and non-anglo artists.
** BTS' "core genre" is, according to Nielsen, "world music", despite "pop/hiphop" being far more descriptive of their work ([[https://archive.nytimes.com/query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage-9901EED8163EF930A35753C1A96F958260.html and "world music" being a controversial category]]). According to [[https://twitter.com/bybrianbyrne/status/1283763420475592704?s=21 "on background" information]], this would be solely because BTS makes the majority of their music in Korean, similar to all music in Spanish being put on the "Latin" category (which has often be the subject of similar discussions).
** That's not even getting to the various comments people in international media have made mocking or criticizing BTS purely based on racial and/or Korean-specific stereotypes. See FandomEnragingMisconception above.
** The [=VMAs=]' decision to completely ignore BTS in the 2019 nominations for main categories, instead relegating them to technical categories, the Best Collaboration category and the (newly created) Best K-pop category. While it's just one of several cases of awards shows supposedly based on popularity only considering BTS for categories related to fandom or social media, it became one of the most high-profile ones. The lack of consideration of BTS as as an artist on the same level of popularity as the Artist and Video of the Year nominees was especially apparent considering that all pictures of BTS in the voting site [[https://twitter.com/eleanorbate/status/1154046812774207488 initially had Halsey front-and-center with 2 members out of focus in the back]]. All of this led to the questioning by fans of the "Best K-pop" category, as well as MTV (and the Western music industry)'s history of ignoring or segregating non-white and non-anglo artists.
** BTS' "core genre" is, according to Nielsen, "world music", despite "pop/hiphop" being far more descriptive of their work ([[https://archive.nytimes.com/query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage-9901EED8163EF930A35753C1A96F958260.html and "world music" being a controversial category]]). According to [[https://twitter.com/bybrianbyrne/status/1283763420475592704?s=21 "on background" information]], this would be solely because BTS makes the majority of their music in Korean, similar to all music in Spanish being put on the "Latin" category (which has often be the subject of similar discussions).
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* NeverLiveItDown:
** If you were to learn about the BTS members from most of the popular "introduction to the members" Youtube fan-made videos (at least, most of the pre-2018 ones), you'd probably get a ''heavily'' {{Flanderiz|ation}}ed impression of the members, due to selective editing in compilation videos repeatedly emphasizing only certain moments and jokes to fit one narrative. Some jokes have become {{Discredited Meme}}s purely because of this, as you can see above.
*** RM is one of the most affected by this; you'd (almost) be forgiven for thinking his entire personality consists of being 1. smart, and 2. clumsy. The most egregious part, though? '''"Expensive girl"''', which, despite the fact that ''it's actually a cover'' [[note]]the original is "Take It Off (Dim the Lights)" by Pharrell Williams[[/note]] he did back when he was 18, some fans in Youtube keep recommending to newcomers instead of much more representative work like ''RM'' or ''mono.''.
*** Likewise, other members get reduced into one-note caricatures of themselves in certain circles due to this: Suga is Flanderized as "savage" and "cold/heartless" for being quieter and snarkier (with one of the most popular videos being a compilation of members being "lowkey terrified" of him despite a lot of evidence to the contrary); Jin with TeamMom as his sole trait for being into cooking and taking care of the younger members; V as a CloudCuckoolander (ignoring, for example, his artistic sense), and so on.
** In a different way, the group's and particularly RM's [[PrettyFlyForAWhiteGuy hair/fashion choices and attitude]] and less than sensitive lyrics and comments from their early years. He has acknowledged these and quite explicitly publicly regretted them, making efforts to improve along with the other members (he even has his lyrics reviewed by feminist scholars now, as well as songs with gender-neutral writing), but many Kpop fans surely won't let anyone forget it. You'd be surprised by the fact that he went as far as changing some lyrics for the US performances of "Fake Love" due to the Korean words for "I" and "you" ''sounding'' like the N-word, considering how much his name keeps popping up in ''any'' discussion about Kpop idols having problematic behavior (see "but namjoon" in [[Memes/{{BTS}} BTS' Memetic Mutation page]]).
** If you were to learn about the BTS members from most of the popular "introduction to the members" Youtube fan-made videos (at least, most of the pre-2018 ones), you'd probably get a ''heavily'' {{Flanderiz|ation}}ed impression of the members, due to selective editing in compilation videos repeatedly emphasizing only certain moments and jokes to fit one narrative. Some jokes have become {{Discredited Meme}}s purely because of this, as you can see above.
*** RM is one of the most affected by this; you'd (almost) be forgiven for thinking his entire personality consists of being 1. smart, and 2. clumsy. The most egregious part, though? '''"Expensive girl"''', which, despite the fact that ''it's actually a cover'' [[note]]the original is "Take It Off (Dim the Lights)" by Pharrell Williams[[/note]] he did back when he was 18, some fans in Youtube keep recommending to newcomers instead of much more representative work like ''RM'' or ''mono.''.
*** Likewise, other members get reduced into one-note caricatures of themselves in certain circles due to this: Suga is Flanderized as "savage" and "cold/heartless" for being quieter and snarkier (with one of the most popular videos being a compilation of members being "lowkey terrified" of him despite a lot of evidence to the contrary); Jin with TeamMom as his sole trait for being into cooking and taking care of the younger members; V as a CloudCuckoolander (ignoring, for example, his artistic sense), and so on.
** In a different way, the group's and particularly RM's [[PrettyFlyForAWhiteGuy hair/fashion choices and attitude]] and less than sensitive lyrics and comments from their early years. He has acknowledged these and quite explicitly publicly regretted them, making efforts to improve along with the other members (he even has his lyrics reviewed by feminist scholars now, as well as songs with gender-neutral writing), but many Kpop fans surely won't let anyone forget it. You'd be surprised by the fact that he went as far as changing some lyrics for the US performances of "Fake Love" due to the Korean words for "I" and "you" ''sounding'' like the N-word, considering how much his name keeps popping up in ''any'' discussion about Kpop idols having problematic behavior (see "but namjoon" in [[Memes/{{BTS}} BTS' Memetic Mutation page]]).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
YMMV can't be "played with", even if people try to "play with" it anyway to shoehorn entries.
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** Played with regarding the [[CompilationRerelease compilation albums]] themselves. While they're often fan-favorites that serve as efficient series retellings with new additional songs, they often leave out songs from previous parts of the series to do so. The biggest example is likely ''LOVE YOURSELF: Answer'', which adds the popular new songs "Euphoria", "Epiphany" and the "Trivias" for a much-praised retelling and conclusion of the ''LOVE YOURSELF'' story, but leaves out fan-favorites "Pied Pier", "134340", "Paradise" and "Love Maze", while other new additions to the album[[note]]read:"I'm Fine" and "Answer: Love Myself"[[/note]], while functional to the story, were less popular as songs in their own right, leading some fans to prefer its predecessor ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear'' instead.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Cleaning up the complaining, natter, and drama importation in the Fandom Rivalry section. Removing part about Super M completely because it seems very one-sided.
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* ArchivePanic: They have nine full albums (five Korean and four Japanese), six mini-albums, two single albums, over 50 singles total (including guest appearances on other artists' singles), and SoloSideProject releases by most members (including multiple full albums and mixtapes). Many of their videos have multiple versions, and they also have several other multimedia projects.
to:
* ArchivePanic: They have nine full albums (five Korean and four Japanese), six mini-albums, two single albums, over 50 singles total (including guest appearances on other artists' singles), multiple non-album and reissue-exclusive songs, and SoloSideProject releases by most the members (including multiple full albums and mixtapes). Many of their videos have multiple versions, and they also have several other multimedia projects.
Changed line(s) 82,91 (click to see context) from:
* FandomRivalry: BTS and {{Music/EXO}} fans do not get along, which is unfortunate because the two groups seem to actually quite good friends (or at least civil) in reality.
** While rivalries are awfully common in Kpop, BTS' rising popularity (rivaling and even surpassing bigger established groups) and increasingly louder fanbase (in the sense of "BTS brought me here" becoming a meme due to being so widespread) gathered negative sentiments against the group and their fans among some Kpop circles since 2015 (some say even before), [[SeriousBusiness with some even acting out]] [[DisproportionateRetribution against BTS themselves]], the worst incidents [[note]]which include ''very'' public (now disproven) accusations towards BTS of plagiarism and chart manipulation, as well as the creation or encouragement of various anti projects and malicious rumors[[/note]] involving fans of EXO and Music/BigBang. The fact that there's also a growing portion of [=ARMYs=] who declare themselves fans of ''only'' BTS (and maybe some other Korean artists) and not of Kpop as a whole, partly as a consequence of the above - not to mention a new wave of fans coming from Western stan Twitter, with all that entails - hasn't sat well with some Kpop fans.
*** It should be noted that some sections of the BTS fandom ''are'' friendly with other Kpop fandoms, ranging from fans who are multi-fandom, to [=ARMYs=] who also like some Korean artists (who may or may not be idols), to [=ARMYs=] who are indifferent to Korean idols, to a vocal portion of [=ARMYs=] who actively listen only to BTS; whether they also view the industry or other groups or fandoms positively also varies. However, a considerable portion of fans on Twitter refuses to engage with the Kpop fan community at large and are very critical of the Korean idol industry in general, even ''if'' they like the artists themselves. That people from other fandoms and multifandom [=ARMYs=] often enter conversations within the BTS fandom and try to pressure [=ARMYs=] into taking specific sides or otherwise paint [=ARMYs=] as "the worst fandom" hasn't exactly helped.
** Many [=ARMYs=] fight with older generation Kpop fans who claim that BTS did not pave the way for other Korean artists to become successful in the west and credit artists like BIGBANG and Wonder Girls instead. This is because, due to the way Kpop discourse goes, it often comes with the implication that every or most of BTS' international achievements must be credited to other artists - which is complicated by BTS' atypical nature within the Kpop industry and the history between the Kpop fan community and BTS[=/=]ARMY, as described above. Not even the fact that artists like PSY, [[Music/EpikHigh Tablo]], Ailee, and Sunmi (ex member of Wonder Girls) have explicitly credited BTS for opening the doors for Korean artists has stopped the debate - with some vocal Kpop fans turning against those artists instead.
** The creation of the supergroup Music/{{SuperM}} has not made [=ARMYs=] happy to say the least. Many have argued that this group was formed out of spite of BTS and their popularity, and believe that SM entertainment wanted to make this group to replicate their international success. The controversial strategy used by SM to get into the US charts - which, among other things, included a ''very'' high amount of bundling (digital albums sold at a lower price by bundling it with merch) to increase sale numbers - certainly hasn't helped, as BTS' almost nonexistent use of bundles during the 2 years of promotions in the US is a point of pride for [=ARMYs=] [[note]]The only instance of use of bundling was during ''LOVE YOURSELF: Answer'', with digital albums that could be redeemed after buying a ticket for [=CitiField=] and ''only'' that venue. Most of the albums were redeemed the ''second'' week (after ''Answer'' had already secured #1 on Billboard 200), and this was after BTS had ''already'' gotten a #1 album with ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear''.[[/note]], and many find that SM's practice set a negative precedent that could add further to the already-existing prejudice against the legitimacy of foreign (particularly Asian) artists in the US.
** The relationship between fans of BTS and Music/{{BLACKPINK}} on Twitter became tense in 2018 due to various factors, including HypeBacklash among newer [=ARMYs=] towards BLACKPINK (due being lauded in certain circles as the most feminist Kpop group or "the female BTS"), media practices in part of YG that were questioned by [=ARMYs=], and Blinks reusing tutorials made by ARMY fanbases without permission. All of this quickly devolved into some people in both fandoms dissing each other's groups and some [=ARMYs=] even starting to (very vocally) criticize various rappers in female Kpop groups. The fact that a [[VocalMinority few Blink accounts]] - many of them male fans - accused (and keep accusing) [=ARMYs=] of being "anti-feminist" or "[[GirlShowGhetto men-obsessed]]" (sometimes simultaneously) for not supporting BLACKPINK (even if they did support other girl groups) did not help matters, and it's only gotten worse since.
*** The scandals surrounding YG and some YG artists in 2019 have made some international fans of BLACKPINK and BIGBANG double down on the rivalry with BTS, with some even going as far as to [[https://pann-choa.blogspot.com/2019/08/theqoo-international-bigbang-fan-who.html spread misinformation just to put the blame on BTS and BigHit somehow]].
*** A similar case occurs with Music/{{LOONA}}. While - like with BLACKPINK - there's a good number of fans of both groups, HypeBacklash reactions from some [=ARMY=] Twitter accounts (only exacerbated by the incidents with BLACKPINK) weren't received well by a VocalMinority among Orbits, which has retaliated through trolling and spamming (and mocking an ARMY's appearance, in one case). This (once again, mostly male) vocal minority, which resorted to insults to the members even in positive [=LoonARMYs=] tweets (such as one comparing a picture of LOONA member doing a cute pose to J-Hope doing the same), really soured interactions between both fandoms and only worsened the HypeBacklash, even after other Orbits apologized.
*** What '''''really''''' hasn't made things better is that some Kpop fans (but particularly fans of the above girl groups) have also started to create Twitter accounts or change their existing ones to make [[https://twitter.com/Danaeasdf/status/1105141575460507649 deliberately offensive tweets]] while posing as [=ARMYs=], with the most infamous example being posting fancams under tweets about real-life tragedies (with comments such as "maybe if he stanned BTS, he wouldn't have died") and making BTS and [=ARMYs=] (many of which had been discouraging the use of fancams) receive the brunt of the ensuing backlash and become the face of the "kpop fancams" stereotype.
*** There have also been attempts to sow discord between [=ARMYs=] and fandoms friendly to them from people belonging to a rival fandom.
** While rivalries are awfully common in Kpop, BTS' rising popularity (rivaling and even surpassing bigger established groups) and increasingly louder fanbase (in the sense of "BTS brought me here" becoming a meme due to being so widespread) gathered negative sentiments against the group and their fans among some Kpop circles since 2015 (some say even before), [[SeriousBusiness with some even acting out]] [[DisproportionateRetribution against BTS themselves]], the worst incidents [[note]]which include ''very'' public (now disproven) accusations towards BTS of plagiarism and chart manipulation, as well as the creation or encouragement of various anti projects and malicious rumors[[/note]] involving fans of EXO and Music/BigBang. The fact that there's also a growing portion of [=ARMYs=] who declare themselves fans of ''only'' BTS (and maybe some other Korean artists) and not of Kpop as a whole, partly as a consequence of the above - not to mention a new wave of fans coming from Western stan Twitter, with all that entails - hasn't sat well with some Kpop fans.
*** It should be noted that some sections of the BTS fandom ''are'' friendly with other Kpop fandoms, ranging from fans who are multi-fandom, to [=ARMYs=] who also like some Korean artists (who may or may not be idols), to [=ARMYs=] who are indifferent to Korean idols, to a vocal portion of [=ARMYs=] who actively listen only to BTS; whether they also view the industry or other groups or fandoms positively also varies. However, a considerable portion of fans on Twitter refuses to engage with the Kpop fan community at large and are very critical of the Korean idol industry in general, even ''if'' they like the artists themselves. That people from other fandoms and multifandom [=ARMYs=] often enter conversations within the BTS fandom and try to pressure [=ARMYs=] into taking specific sides or otherwise paint [=ARMYs=] as "the worst fandom" hasn't exactly helped.
** Many [=ARMYs=] fight with older generation Kpop fans who claim that BTS did not pave the way for other Korean artists to become successful in the west and credit artists like BIGBANG and Wonder Girls instead. This is because, due to the way Kpop discourse goes, it often comes with the implication that every or most of BTS' international achievements must be credited to other artists - which is complicated by BTS' atypical nature within the Kpop industry and the history between the Kpop fan community and BTS[=/=]ARMY, as described above. Not even the fact that artists like PSY, [[Music/EpikHigh Tablo]], Ailee, and Sunmi (ex member of Wonder Girls) have explicitly credited BTS for opening the doors for Korean artists has stopped the debate - with some vocal Kpop fans turning against those artists instead.
** The creation of the supergroup Music/{{SuperM}} has not made [=ARMYs=] happy to say the least. Many have argued that this group was formed out of spite of BTS and their popularity, and believe that SM entertainment wanted to make this group to replicate their international success. The controversial strategy used by SM to get into the US charts - which, among other things, included a ''very'' high amount of bundling (digital albums sold at a lower price by bundling it with merch) to increase sale numbers - certainly hasn't helped, as BTS' almost nonexistent use of bundles during the 2 years of promotions in the US is a point of pride for [=ARMYs=] [[note]]The only instance of use of bundling was during ''LOVE YOURSELF: Answer'', with digital albums that could be redeemed after buying a ticket for [=CitiField=] and ''only'' that venue. Most of the albums were redeemed the ''second'' week (after ''Answer'' had already secured #1 on Billboard 200), and this was after BTS had ''already'' gotten a #1 album with ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear''.[[/note]], and many find that SM's practice set a negative precedent that could add further to the already-existing prejudice against the legitimacy of foreign (particularly Asian) artists in the US.
** The relationship between fans of BTS and Music/{{BLACKPINK}} on Twitter became tense in 2018 due to various factors, including HypeBacklash among newer [=ARMYs=] towards BLACKPINK (due being lauded in certain circles as the most feminist Kpop group or "the female BTS"), media practices in part of YG that were questioned by [=ARMYs=], and Blinks reusing tutorials made by ARMY fanbases without permission. All of this quickly devolved into some people in both fandoms dissing each other's groups and some [=ARMYs=] even starting to (very vocally) criticize various rappers in female Kpop groups. The fact that a [[VocalMinority few Blink accounts]] - many of them male fans - accused (and keep accusing) [=ARMYs=] of being "anti-feminist" or "[[GirlShowGhetto men-obsessed]]" (sometimes simultaneously) for not supporting BLACKPINK (even if they did support other girl groups) did not help matters, and it's only gotten worse since.
*** The scandals surrounding YG and some YG artists in 2019 have made some international fans of BLACKPINK and BIGBANG double down on the rivalry with BTS, with some even going as far as to [[https://pann-choa.blogspot.com/2019/08/theqoo-international-bigbang-fan-who.html spread misinformation just to put the blame on BTS and BigHit somehow]].
*** A similar case occurs with Music/{{LOONA}}. While - like with BLACKPINK - there's a good number of fans of both groups, HypeBacklash reactions from some [=ARMY=] Twitter accounts (only exacerbated by the incidents with BLACKPINK) weren't received well by a VocalMinority among Orbits, which has retaliated through trolling and spamming (and mocking an ARMY's appearance, in one case). This (once again, mostly male) vocal minority, which resorted to insults to the members even in positive [=LoonARMYs=] tweets (such as one comparing a picture of LOONA member doing a cute pose to J-Hope doing the same), really soured interactions between both fandoms and only worsened the HypeBacklash, even after other Orbits apologized.
*** What '''''really''''' hasn't made things better is that some Kpop fans (but particularly fans of the above girl groups) have also started to create Twitter accounts or change their existing ones to make [[https://twitter.com/Danaeasdf/status/1105141575460507649 deliberately offensive tweets]] while posing as [=ARMYs=], with the most infamous example being posting fancams under tweets about real-life tragedies (with comments such as "maybe if he stanned BTS, he wouldn't have died") and making BTS and [=ARMYs=] (many of which had been discouraging the use of fancams) receive the brunt of the ensuing backlash and become the face of the "kpop fancams" stereotype.
*** There have also been attempts to sow discord between [=ARMYs=] and fandoms friendly to them from people belonging to a rival fandom.
to:
* FandomRivalry: BTS and {{Music/EXO}} fans do not get along, being one of the only K-pop acts to reach international megastardom comes with the side effect of spawning a lot of fan wars, some of which can get ''[[FlameWar really]]'' nasty.
** One of the most notorious fan wars isunfortunate with fans of Music/{{Exo}}. After BTS started to rise in 2015, the fandoms began a rivalry because the two groups seem to actually quite good friends (or at least civil) in reality.
** While rivalriesare awfully common in Kpop, BTS' rising popularity (rivaling and even surpassing bigger established groups) and increasingly louder fanbase (in the sense of "BTS brought me here" becoming a meme due to being so widespread) gathered negative sentiments against the group and their fans among some Kpop circles since 2015 (some say even before), [[SeriousBusiness with some even acting out]] [[DisproportionateRetribution against BTS themselves]], the worst incidents [[note]]which include ''very'' public (now disproven) accusations towards BTS of plagiarism and chart manipulation, as well as the creation or encouragement of various anti projects and malicious rumors[[/note]] involving fans of EXO and Music/BigBang. compared. The fact that there's also a growing portion of [=ARMYs=] who declare themselves the two groups are always [[AwardSnub nominated for the same awards]] doesn't help.
** The other major fan war is with fans of''only'' BTS (and maybe the girl group Music/BlackPink. When Blackpink started to blow up internationally, some circles hyped them up as the DistaffCounterpart to BTS, which other Korean artists) and circles did not of Kpop as a whole, partly as a consequence of appreciate. It doesn't help that, despite being the above - not most popular GirlGroup in K-pop, Blackpink is perpetually in second place (behind BTS) when it comes to mention a new wave of fans coming from Western stan Twitter, with all that entails - hasn't sat well with some Kpop fans.
*** It should be noted that some sections of the BTS fandom ''are'' friendly with other Kpop fandoms, ranging from fans who are multi-fandom, to [=ARMYs=] who also like some Korean artists (who may or may not be idols), to [=ARMYs=] who are indifferent to Korean idols, to a vocal portion of [=ARMYs=] who actively listen only to BTS; whether they also viewpopularity in the industry or other groups or fandoms positively also varies. However, a considerable portion of fans on Twitter refuses to engage with the Kpop fan community at large and are very critical of the Korean idol industry in general, even ''if'' they like the artists themselves. That people from other fandoms and multifandom [=ARMYs=] often enter conversations within the BTS fandom and try to pressure [=ARMYs=] into taking specific sides or otherwise paint [=ARMYs=] as "the worst fandom" hasn't exactly helped.
** Many [=ARMYs=] fight with older generation Kpop fans who claim that BTS did not pave the way for other Korean artists to become successful in the west and credit artists like BIGBANG and Wonder Girls instead. This is because, due to the way Kpop discourse goes, it often comes with the implication that every or most of BTS' international achievements must be credited to other artists - which is complicated by BTS' atypical nature within the Kpop industry and the history between the Kpop fan community and BTS[=/=]ARMY, as described above. Not even the fact that artists like PSY, [[Music/EpikHigh Tablo]], Ailee, and Sunmi (ex member of Wonder Girls) have explicitly credited BTS for opening the doors for Korean artists has stopped the debate - with some vocal Kpop fans turning against those artists instead.
** The creation of the supergroup Music/{{SuperM}} has not made [=ARMYs=] happy to say the least. Many have argued that this group was formed out of spite of BTS and their popularity, and believe that SM entertainment wanted to make this group to replicate their international success. The controversial strategy used by SM to get into the US charts - which, among other things, includeda ''very'' high amount of bundling (digital albums sold at a lower price by bundling it with merch) to increase sale numbers - certainly hasn't helped, as BTS' almost nonexistent use of bundles during the 2 years of promotions in the US is a point of pride for [=ARMYs=] [[note]]The only instance of use of bundling was during ''LOVE YOURSELF: Answer'', with digital albums that could be redeemed after buying a ticket for [=CitiField=] and ''only'' that venue. Most of the albums were redeemed the ''second'' week (after ''Answer'' had already secured #1 on Billboard 200), and this was after BTS had ''already'' gotten a #1 album with ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear''.[[/note]], and many find that SM's practice set a negative precedent that could add further to the already-existing prejudice against the legitimacy of foreign (particularly Asian) artists in the US.
** The relationship between fans of BTS and Music/{{BLACKPINK}} on Twitter became tense in 2018 due to various factors, including HypeBacklash among newer [=ARMYs=] towards BLACKPINK (due being lauded in certain circles as the most feminist Kpop group or "the female BTS"), media practices in part of YG that were questioned by [=ARMYs=], and Blinks reusing tutorials made by ARMY fanbases without permission. All of this quickly devolved into some people in both fandoms dissing each other's groups and some [=ARMYs=] even starting to (very vocally) criticize various rappers in female Kpop groups. The fact that a [[VocalMinority few Blink accounts]] - many of them male fans - accused (and keep accusing) [=ARMYs=] of being "anti-feminist" or "[[GirlShowGhetto men-obsessed]]" (sometimes simultaneously) for not supporting BLACKPINK (even if they did support other girl groups) did not help matters, and it's only gotten worse since.
*** The scandals surrounding YG and some YG artists in 2019 have made some international fans of BLACKPINK and BIGBANG double down on the rivalry with BTS, with some even going as far as to [[https://pann-choa.blogspot.com/2019/08/theqoo-international-bigbang-fan-who.html spread misinformation just to put the blame on BTS and BigHit somehow]].
*** A similar case occurs with Music/{{LOONA}}. While - like with BLACKPINK - there's a good number of fans of both groups, HypeBacklash reactions from some [=ARMY=] Twitter accounts (only exacerbated by the incidents with BLACKPINK) weren't received well by a VocalMinority among Orbits, which has retaliated through trolling and spamming (and mocking an ARMY's appearance, in one case). This (once again, mostly male) vocal minority, which resorted to insults to the members even in positive [=LoonARMYs=] tweets (such as one comparing a picture of LOONA member doing a cute pose to J-Hope doing the same), really soured interactions between both fandoms and only worsened the HypeBacklash, even after other Orbits apologized.
*** What '''''really''''' hasn't made things better is that some Kpop fans (but particularly fans of the above girl groups) have also started to create Twitter accounts or change their existing ones to make [[https://twitter.com/Danaeasdf/status/1105141575460507649 deliberately offensive tweets]] while posing as [=ARMYs=], with the most infamous example being posting fancams under tweets about real-life tragedies (with comments such as "maybe if he stanned BTS, he wouldn't have died") and making BTS and [=ARMYs=] (many of which had been discouraging the use of fancams) receive the brunt of the ensuing backlash and become the face of the "kpop fancams" stereotype.
*** There have also been attempts to sow discord between [=ARMYs=] and fandoms friendly to them from people belonging to a rival fandom.whole.
** One of the most notorious fan wars is
** While rivalries
** The other major fan war is with fans of
*** It should be noted that some sections of the BTS fandom ''are'' friendly with other Kpop fandoms, ranging from fans who are multi-fandom, to [=ARMYs=] who also like some Korean artists (who may or may not be idols), to [=ARMYs=] who are indifferent to Korean idols, to a vocal portion of [=ARMYs=] who actively listen only to BTS; whether they also view
** Many [=ARMYs=] fight with older generation Kpop fans who claim that BTS did not pave the way for other Korean artists to become successful in the west and credit artists like BIGBANG and Wonder Girls instead. This is because, due to the way Kpop discourse goes, it often comes with the implication that every or most of BTS' international achievements must be credited to other artists - which is complicated by BTS' atypical nature within the Kpop industry and the history between the Kpop fan community and BTS[=/=]ARMY, as described above. Not even the fact that artists like PSY, [[Music/EpikHigh Tablo]], Ailee, and Sunmi (ex member of Wonder Girls) have explicitly credited BTS for opening the doors for Korean artists has stopped the debate - with some vocal Kpop fans turning against those artists instead.
** The creation of the supergroup Music/{{SuperM}} has not made [=ARMYs=] happy to say the least. Many have argued that this group was formed out of spite of BTS and their popularity, and believe that SM entertainment wanted to make this group to replicate their international success. The controversial strategy used by SM to get into the US charts - which, among other things, included
** The relationship between fans of BTS and Music/{{BLACKPINK}} on Twitter became tense in 2018 due to various factors, including HypeBacklash among newer [=ARMYs=] towards BLACKPINK (due being lauded in certain circles as the most feminist Kpop group or "the female BTS"), media practices in part of YG that were questioned by [=ARMYs=], and Blinks reusing tutorials made by ARMY fanbases without permission. All of this quickly devolved into some people in both fandoms dissing each other's groups and some [=ARMYs=] even starting to (very vocally) criticize various rappers in female Kpop groups. The fact that a [[VocalMinority few Blink accounts]] - many of them male fans - accused (and keep accusing) [=ARMYs=] of being "anti-feminist" or "[[GirlShowGhetto men-obsessed]]" (sometimes simultaneously) for not supporting BLACKPINK (even if they did support other girl groups) did not help matters, and it's only gotten worse since.
*** The scandals surrounding YG and some YG artists in 2019 have made some international fans of BLACKPINK and BIGBANG double down on the rivalry with BTS, with some even going as far as to [[https://pann-choa.blogspot.com/2019/08/theqoo-international-bigbang-fan-who.html spread misinformation just to put the blame on BTS and BigHit somehow]].
*** A similar case occurs with Music/{{LOONA}}. While - like with BLACKPINK - there's a good number of fans of both groups, HypeBacklash reactions from some [=ARMY=] Twitter accounts (only exacerbated by the incidents with BLACKPINK) weren't received well by a VocalMinority among Orbits, which has retaliated through trolling and spamming (and mocking an ARMY's appearance, in one case). This (once again, mostly male) vocal minority, which resorted to insults to the members even in positive [=LoonARMYs=] tweets (such as one comparing a picture of LOONA member doing a cute pose to J-Hope doing the same), really soured interactions between both fandoms and only worsened the HypeBacklash, even after other Orbits apologized.
*** What '''''really''''' hasn't made things better is that some Kpop fans (but particularly fans of the above girl groups) have also started to create Twitter accounts or change their existing ones to make [[https://twitter.com/Danaeasdf/status/1105141575460507649 deliberately offensive tweets]] while posing as [=ARMYs=], with the most infamous example being posting fancams under tweets about real-life tragedies (with comments such as "maybe if he stanned BTS, he wouldn't have died") and making BTS and [=ARMYs=] (many of which had been discouraging the use of fancams) receive the brunt of the ensuing backlash and become the face of the "kpop fancams" stereotype.
*** There have also been attempts to sow discord between [=ARMYs=] and fandoms friendly to them from people belonging to a rival fandom.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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* GirlShowGhetto: Western media and non-fans tend to lump BTS in with more conventional {{boy band}}s due in part to BTS technically still being '''a''' boy band. This is not helped by the group having a "pretty boy" image (which is the standard for male K-pop idols) or {{Black Sheep Hit}}s with "Dynamite" and the ''Butter'' single album. As a result, critics and non-fans tend to assume the group is aimed almost strictly at young girls, overlooking that their usual sound is more GenreBusting with prominent hip-hop leanings and more complex lyrical themes (which often talk about social and political issues, some of which are even taboo in Korea). While it's safe to say that the assumptions made about them by outsiders aren't ''too'' damaging, given that they're still ''far'' more commercially successful than most other K-pop acts in the west, they're still considered a thorn in the side for fans due to the assumptions persisting in the media regardless.
to:
* GirlShowGhetto: Western media and non-fans tend to lump BTS in with more conventional {{boy band}}s due in part to BTS technically still being '''a''' boy band. This is not helped by the group having a "pretty boy" image (which is the standard for male K-pop idols) or {{Black Sheep Hit}}s with "Dynamite" and the ''Butter'' single album. As a result, critics and non-fans tend to assume the group is group's songs are aimed almost strictly at young girls, overlooking that their usual sound is more GenreBusting with prominent hip-hop leanings and more complex lyrical themes (which often talk about social and political issues, some of which are even taboo in Korea). Korea) that give them more of a multi- gender appeal (resulting in a large portion of the fans being male). While it's safe to say that the assumptions made about them BTS by outsiders aren't ''too'' damaging, given that they're still ''far'' more commercially successful than most other K-pop acts in the west, they're still considered a thorn in the side for fans due to the assumptions persisting in the media regardless.
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Changed line(s) 119 (click to see context) from:
* GirlShowGhetto: Western media and non-fans tend to lump BTS in with more conventional {{boy band}}s due in part to BTS technically still being '''a''' boy band. This is not helped by the group having a "pretty boy" image (which is the standard for male K-pop idols) or {{Black Sheep Hits}} with "Dynamite" and the ''Butter'' single album. As a result, critics and non-fans tend to assume the group is aimed almost strictly at young girls, overlooking that their usual sound is more GenreBusting with prominent hip-hop leanings and more complex lyrical themes (which often talk about social and political issues, some of which are even taboo in Korea). While it's safe to say that the assumptions made about them by outsiders aren't ''too'' damaging, given that they're still ''far'' more commercially successful than most other K-pop acts in the west, they're still considered a thorn in the side for fans due to the assumptions persisting in the media regardless.
to:
* GirlShowGhetto: Western media and non-fans tend to lump BTS in with more conventional {{boy band}}s due in part to BTS technically still being '''a''' boy band. This is not helped by the group having a "pretty boy" image (which is the standard for male K-pop idols) or {{Black Sheep Hits}} Hit}}s with "Dynamite" and the ''Butter'' single album. As a result, critics and non-fans tend to assume the group is aimed almost strictly at young girls, overlooking that their usual sound is more GenreBusting with prominent hip-hop leanings and more complex lyrical themes (which often talk about social and political issues, some of which are even taboo in Korea). While it's safe to say that the assumptions made about them by outsiders aren't ''too'' damaging, given that they're still ''far'' more commercially successful than most other K-pop acts in the west, they're still considered a thorn in the side for fans due to the assumptions persisting in the media regardless.
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I'm not entirely sure how noteworthy the complaints about people dismissing BTS are, given their massive global success, but this could, at the very least, be trimmed down to be less complain-y.
Changed line(s) 119,123 (click to see context) from:
* GirlShowGhetto: Almost par for the course for a Korean Boyband. BTS tends to be dismissed by Western media and the general public as just another group of pretty boys followed by a "mindless", "screaming" GroupieBrigade who "just like pretty faces" - despite the fact that the first thing most fans will name as a reason to love BTS is their music and ''lyrics'' (which often talk about social and political issues, some of which are even taboo in Korea), with BTS' music being much more strongly influenced by Western HipHop (as well as other genres) than by Western boybands or even other Korean idol groups. Not to mention that while the visible majority of fans are female, the fandom is ''very'' diverse in genders, ages and nationalities.
** A review of ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear'' by ''The Guardian'' infamously had ''one'' paragraph of the whole thing dedicated to the album itself, saying that fans obviously cared more about the visuals than the music and basically implying "who cares?".
** [[http://www.collegiatetimes.com/opinion/crazy-teenage-girls-female-fandom-marginalized-in-today-s-society/article_a6e9d60a-3541-11e9-b329-e3d3721816f6.html Several articles have been written]] on Western society's dismissal of BTS as something without substance based entirely on their mostly female fanbase and the members' lack of adherence to "manly" standards of beauty and conduct (such as their use of make-up), revealing {{Double Standard}}s against female fanbases that in this case also intersect with racism and homophobia.
*** Western media has a role too in perpetuating this prejudice by basing their coverage of BTS on these preconceptions; notably, many US interviewers have focused almost exclusively on the size of the fandom and its presence in social media in their coverage, asking BTS questions like "what is the craziest thing your fans have done?" (which BTS deliberately turned around into praising fans instead). All of this only helps the issue of [[http://culture.affinitymagazine.us/how-the-rise-of-k-pop-groups-is-shedding-light-on-sexism-in-music/ female fans constantly having to justify themselves due to the "crazy groupie" stereotype]].
** The more outspoken nature of the fanbase and its sheer size has also resulted in pre-conceptions of the fandom as an aggressive, overprotective mindless (girlish) horde. The Youtube comment section for [[WebVideo/TheNeedleDrop Anthony Fantano]]'s (mostly positive, if at times harshly worded) review of ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear'' is an amusing example of this. A good part of the comments are along the lines of "run! The fans will burn you alive if you say anything bad about BTS!". The other part, meanwhile, are [=ARMYs=]... respectfully thanking Fantano for reviewing the album, with some of them even agreeing with his criticisms.
** A review of ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear'' by ''The Guardian'' infamously had ''one'' paragraph of the whole thing dedicated to the album itself, saying that fans obviously cared more about the visuals than the music and basically implying "who cares?".
** [[http://www.collegiatetimes.com/opinion/crazy-teenage-girls-female-fandom-marginalized-in-today-s-society/article_a6e9d60a-3541-11e9-b329-e3d3721816f6.html Several articles have been written]] on Western society's dismissal of BTS as something without substance based entirely on their mostly female fanbase and the members' lack of adherence to "manly" standards of beauty and conduct (such as their use of make-up), revealing {{Double Standard}}s against female fanbases that in this case also intersect with racism and homophobia.
*** Western media has a role too in perpetuating this prejudice by basing their coverage of BTS on these preconceptions; notably, many US interviewers have focused almost exclusively on the size of the fandom and its presence in social media in their coverage, asking BTS questions like "what is the craziest thing your fans have done?" (which BTS deliberately turned around into praising fans instead). All of this only helps the issue of [[http://culture.affinitymagazine.us/how-the-rise-of-k-pop-groups-is-shedding-light-on-sexism-in-music/ female fans constantly having to justify themselves due to the "crazy groupie" stereotype]].
** The more outspoken nature of the fanbase and its sheer size has also resulted in pre-conceptions of the fandom as an aggressive, overprotective mindless (girlish) horde. The Youtube comment section for [[WebVideo/TheNeedleDrop Anthony Fantano]]'s (mostly positive, if at times harshly worded) review of ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear'' is an amusing example of this. A good part of the comments are along the lines of "run! The fans will burn you alive if you say anything bad about BTS!". The other part, meanwhile, are [=ARMYs=]... respectfully thanking Fantano for reviewing the album, with some of them even agreeing with his criticisms.
to:
* GirlShowGhetto: Almost par for the course for a Korean Boyband. BTS tends to be dismissed by Western media and non-fans tend to lump BTS in with more conventional {{boy band}}s due in part to BTS technically still being '''a''' boy band. This is not helped by the general public as just another group of pretty boys followed by having a "mindless", "screaming" GroupieBrigade who "just like pretty faces" - despite "pretty boy" image (which is the fact standard for male K-pop idols) or {{Black Sheep Hits}} with "Dynamite" and the ''Butter'' single album. As a result, critics and non-fans tend to assume the group is aimed almost strictly at young girls, overlooking that the first thing most fans will name as a reason to love BTS is their music usual sound is more GenreBusting with prominent hip-hop leanings and ''lyrics'' more complex lyrical themes (which often talk about social and political issues, some of which are even taboo in Korea), with BTS' music being much Korea). While it's safe to say that the assumptions made about them by outsiders aren't ''too'' damaging, given that they're still ''far'' more strongly influenced by Western HipHop (as well as commercially successful than most other genres) than by Western boybands or even other Korean idol groups. Not to mention that while K-pop acts in the visible majority of west, they're still considered a thorn in the side for fans are female, the fandom is ''very'' diverse in genders, ages and nationalities.
** A review of ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear'' by ''The Guardian'' infamously had ''one'' paragraph of the whole thing dedicated to the album itself, saying that fans obviously cared more about the visuals than the music and basically implying "who cares?".
** [[http://www.collegiatetimes.com/opinion/crazy-teenage-girls-female-fandom-marginalized-in-today-s-society/article_a6e9d60a-3541-11e9-b329-e3d3721816f6.html Several articles have been written]] on Western society's dismissal of BTS as something without substance based entirely on their mostly female fanbase and the members' lack of adherence to "manly" standards of beauty and conduct (such as their use of make-up), revealing {{Double Standard}}s against female fanbases that in this case also intersect with racism and homophobia.
*** Western media has a role too in perpetuating this prejudice by basing their coverage of BTS on these preconceptions; notably, many US interviewers have focused almost exclusively on the size of the fandom and its presence in social media in their coverage, asking BTS questions like "what is the craziest thing your fans have done?" (which BTS deliberately turned around into praising fans instead). All of this only helps the issue of [[http://culture.affinitymagazine.us/how-the-rise-of-k-pop-groups-is-shedding-light-on-sexism-in-music/ female fans constantly having to justify themselvesdue to the "crazy groupie" stereotype]].
** The more outspoken nature ofassumptions persisting in the fanbase and its sheer size has also resulted in pre-conceptions of the fandom as an aggressive, overprotective mindless (girlish) horde. The Youtube comment section for [[WebVideo/TheNeedleDrop Anthony Fantano]]'s (mostly positive, if at times harshly worded) review of ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear'' is an amusing example of this. A good part of the comments are along the lines of "run! The fans will burn you alive if you say anything bad about BTS!". The other part, meanwhile, are [=ARMYs=]... respectfully thanking Fantano for reviewing the album, with some of them even agreeing with his criticisms.media regardless.
** A review of ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear'' by ''The Guardian'' infamously had ''one'' paragraph of the whole thing dedicated to the album itself, saying that fans obviously cared more about the visuals than the music and basically implying "who cares?".
** [[http://www.collegiatetimes.com/opinion/crazy-teenage-girls-female-fandom-marginalized-in-today-s-society/article_a6e9d60a-3541-11e9-b329-e3d3721816f6.html Several articles have been written]] on Western society's dismissal of BTS as something without substance based entirely on their mostly female fanbase and the members' lack of adherence to "manly" standards of beauty and conduct (such as their use of make-up), revealing {{Double Standard}}s against female fanbases that in this case also intersect with racism and homophobia.
*** Western media has a role too in perpetuating this prejudice by basing their coverage of BTS on these preconceptions; notably, many US interviewers have focused almost exclusively on the size of the fandom and its presence in social media in their coverage, asking BTS questions like "what is the craziest thing your fans have done?" (which BTS deliberately turned around into praising fans instead). All of this only helps the issue of [[http://culture.affinitymagazine.us/how-the-rise-of-k-pop-groups-is-shedding-light-on-sexism-in-music/ female fans constantly having to justify themselves
** The more outspoken nature of
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** Their luck at the MTV Video Music Awards has been ''very'' hit or miss. Although the Music/LoveYourselfSeries solidified BTS as a household name in the K-pop community and gave them their first major hits in the United States, they had no nominations until 2019. Most of their VMA wins since then have been in minor categories. The group has had only one nomination for Song of the Year ("Dynamite", which lost to Music/OliviaRodrigo's "Driver's License) and none for Video of the Year.
to:
** Their luck at the MTV Video Music Awards has been ''very'' hit or miss. Although the Music/LoveYourselfSeries solidified BTS as a household name in the K-pop community and gave them their first major hits in the United States, they had no nominations until 2019. Most of their VMA wins since then have been in minor categories. The group has had only one nomination for Song of the Year ("Dynamite", which lost to Music/OliviaRodrigo's "Driver's License) "Drivers License") and none for Video of the Year.
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None
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** Their luck at the MTV Video Music Awards has been ''very'' hit or miss. Although the Music/LoveYourselfSeries solidified BTS as a household name in the K-pop community and gave them their first major hits in the United States, they had no nominations, their first nominations were in 2019. Most of their VMA wins since then have been in minor categories. The group has had only one nomination for Song of the Year ("Dynamite", which lost to Music/OliviaRodrigo's "Driver's License) and none for Video of the Year.
to:
** Their luck at the MTV Video Music Awards has been ''very'' hit or miss. Although the Music/LoveYourselfSeries solidified BTS as a household name in the K-pop community and gave them their first major hits in the United States, they had no nominations, their first nominations were in until 2019. Most of their VMA wins since then have been in minor categories. The group has had only one nomination for Song of the Year ("Dynamite", which lost to Music/OliviaRodrigo's "Driver's License) and none for Video of the Year.
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Attempting to clean up some of the complaining with hopes of eventually getting BTS out of the complaining sandbox. Also trying to make the Award Snub entries feel less like knee-jerk reactions.
Changed line(s) 12,15 (click to see context) from:
* AwardSnub: Didn't receive a single nomination for the 2018 MTV [=VMAs=] (not even Best Choreography); this was after the period that gave us "DNA", "Mic Drop (remix)" and "[[SugarWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome Fake Love]]". To rub salt into the wound, another (American) boy band's performance was introduced in the award show as "America's favorite boyband" despite never even charting in the US, while those three songs did.
** The nominations for the [=VMAs=] the very next year became an even bigger point of controversy when BTS ''did'' get 4 nominations, but none of them for the main categories, with 2 of them being for non-votable categories (Choreography and Art Direction), 1 for Best Collaboration (with Halsey)... and 1 for an entirely new category, Best K-pop. Fans immediately decried the nominations, as it came off as MTV relegating [[MinorityShowGhetto BTS and other Korean idol groups to a separate space]] (ignoring BTS' performance in the US charts during the last year and even the records broken by the "Boy With Luv" music video) while only acknowledging BTS in relation to their work with a Western artist (and in the case of the other nominated groups, not even that last part).
** An [[https://www.laineygossip.com/bts-win-multiple-american-music-awards-close-show-with-performance-life-goes-on-dynamite/67521 increasing]] [[https://www.teenvogue.com/story/the-weeknd-grammy-noms-response-justin-bieber number of conversations]] have popped up regarding how, even if they do manage to grab important nominations, BTS keeps getting kept out of main categories in a manner disproportional to BTS' artistry, cultural impact and record-breaking success. Most egregiously, while there was indeed celebration for their first music-related Grammy nomination[[note]]Their very first nomination was for ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear'' for Best Recording Package[[/note]] for their English single "Dynamite" (for Best Pop [=Duo/Group=] Performance), many pointed out how not only did BTS miss out on Record or Song of the Year nominations, but BTS' other submitted work, ''MAP OF THE SOUL: 7'' (the Korean language, Carl Jung-inspired album that heavily features their lyricism, involved global art curation projects, and is overall far more representative of their work than "Dynamite"), got absolutely no nominations.
*** "Dynamite" lost to Lady Gaga and Ariana Grande's "Rain On Me". While some (or even many) did expect it, what made this downright bizarre is that, despite BTS having no nominations in the major categories ("Pop Duo[=/=]Group" was given in the pre-show), their performance was pushed to almost the very end of the Grammy award show with constant misleading "BTS is next!" announcements, [[https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryanrolli/2021/03/15/the-grammys-once-again-did-the-bare-minimum-for-bts/?sh=eea9f2a6129f with many feeling]] that the Recording Academy wasn't willing to giving them an actual win or major nomination, but it ''was'' willing to milk all the ratings they could get.
** The nominations for the [=VMAs=] the very next year became an even bigger point of controversy when BTS ''did'' get 4 nominations, but none of them for the main categories, with 2 of them being for non-votable categories (Choreography and Art Direction), 1 for Best Collaboration (with Halsey)... and 1 for an entirely new category, Best K-pop. Fans immediately decried the nominations, as it came off as MTV relegating [[MinorityShowGhetto BTS and other Korean idol groups to a separate space]] (ignoring BTS' performance in the US charts during the last year and even the records broken by the "Boy With Luv" music video) while only acknowledging BTS in relation to their work with a Western artist (and in the case of the other nominated groups, not even that last part).
** An [[https://www.laineygossip.com/bts-win-multiple-american-music-awards-close-show-with-performance-life-goes-on-dynamite/67521 increasing]] [[https://www.teenvogue.com/story/the-weeknd-grammy-noms-response-justin-bieber number of conversations]] have popped up regarding how, even if they do manage to grab important nominations, BTS keeps getting kept out of main categories in a manner disproportional to BTS' artistry, cultural impact and record-breaking success. Most egregiously, while there was indeed celebration for their first music-related Grammy nomination[[note]]Their very first nomination was for ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear'' for Best Recording Package[[/note]] for their English single "Dynamite" (for Best Pop [=Duo/Group=] Performance), many pointed out how not only did BTS miss out on Record or Song of the Year nominations, but BTS' other submitted work, ''MAP OF THE SOUL: 7'' (the Korean language, Carl Jung-inspired album that heavily features their lyricism, involved global art curation projects, and is overall far more representative of their work than "Dynamite"), got absolutely no nominations.
*** "Dynamite" lost to Lady Gaga and Ariana Grande's "Rain On Me". While some (or even many) did expect it, what made this downright bizarre is that, despite BTS having no nominations in the major categories ("Pop Duo[=/=]Group" was given in the pre-show), their performance was pushed to almost the very end of the Grammy award show with constant misleading "BTS is next!" announcements, [[https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryanrolli/2021/03/15/the-grammys-once-again-did-the-bare-minimum-for-bts/?sh=eea9f2a6129f with many feeling]] that the Recording Academy wasn't willing to giving them an actual win or major nomination, but it ''was'' willing to milk all the ratings they could get.
to:
* AwardSnub: Didn't receive Despite being the most famous Korean act in the West, BTS' luck with Western awards has been hit or miss.
** The group was not nominated for a UsefulNotes/GrammyAward until 2021. They currently have five nominations, including one for a feature on Music/{{Coldplay}}'s ''Music/MusicOfTheSpheres'', but not a single win.
** Their luck at the MTV Video Music Awards has been ''very'' hit or miss. Although the Music/LoveYourselfSeries solidified BTS as a household name in the K-pop community and gave them their first major hits in the United States, they had no nominations, their first nominations were in 2019. Most of their VMA wins since then have been in minor categories. The group has had only one nomination forthe 2018 MTV [=VMAs=] (not even Best Choreography); this was after the period that gave us "DNA", "Mic Drop (remix)" and "[[SugarWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome Fake Love]]". To rub salt into the wound, another (American) boy band's performance was introduced in the award show as "America's favorite boyband" despite never even charting in the US, while those three songs did.
** The nominations for the [=VMAs=] the very next year became an even bigger point of controversy when BTS ''did'' get 4 nominations, but none of them for the main categories, with 2 of them being for non-votable categories (Choreography and Art Direction), 1 for Best Collaboration (with Halsey)... and 1 for an entirely new category, Best K-pop. Fans immediately decried the nominations, as it came off as MTV relegating [[MinorityShowGhetto BTS and other Korean idol groups to a separate space]] (ignoring BTS' performance in the US charts during the last year and even the records broken by the "Boy With Luv" music video) while only acknowledging BTS in relation to their work with a Western artist (and in the case of the other nominated groups, not even that last part).
** An [[https://www.laineygossip.com/bts-win-multiple-american-music-awards-close-show-with-performance-life-goes-on-dynamite/67521 increasing]] [[https://www.teenvogue.com/story/the-weeknd-grammy-noms-response-justin-bieber number of conversations]] have popped up regarding how, even if they do manage to grab important nominations, BTS keeps getting kept out of main categories in a manner disproportional to BTS' artistry, cultural impact and record-breaking success. Most egregiously, while there was indeed celebration for their first music-related Grammy nomination[[note]]Their very first nomination was for ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear'' for Best Recording Package[[/note]] for their English single "Dynamite" (for Best Pop [=Duo/Group=] Performance), many pointed out how not only did BTS miss out on Record orSong of the Year nominations, but BTS' other submitted work, ''MAP OF THE SOUL: 7'' (the Korean language, Carl Jung-inspired album that heavily features their lyricism, involved global art curation projects, and is overall far more representative of their work than "Dynamite"), got absolutely no nominations.
*** "Dynamite"("Dynamite", which lost to Lady Gaga Music/OliviaRodrigo's "Driver's License) and Ariana Grande's "Rain On Me". While some (or even many) did expect it, what made this downright bizarre is that, despite BTS having no nominations in the major categories ("Pop Duo[=/=]Group" was given in the pre-show), their performance was pushed to almost the very end none for Video of the Grammy award show with constant misleading "BTS is next!" announcements, [[https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryanrolli/2021/03/15/the-grammys-once-again-did-the-bare-minimum-for-bts/?sh=eea9f2a6129f with many feeling]] that the Recording Academy wasn't willing to giving them an actual win or major nomination, but it ''was'' willing to milk all the ratings they could get.Year.
** The group was not nominated for a UsefulNotes/GrammyAward until 2021. They currently have five nominations, including one for a feature on Music/{{Coldplay}}'s ''Music/MusicOfTheSpheres'', but not a single win.
** Their luck at the MTV Video Music Awards has been ''very'' hit or miss. Although the Music/LoveYourselfSeries solidified BTS as a household name in the K-pop community and gave them their first major hits in the United States, they had no nominations, their first nominations were in 2019. Most of their VMA wins since then have been in minor categories. The group has had only one nomination for
** The nominations for the [=VMAs=] the very next year became an even bigger point of controversy when BTS ''did'' get 4 nominations, but none of them for the main categories, with 2 of them being for non-votable categories (Choreography and Art Direction), 1 for Best Collaboration (with Halsey)... and 1 for an entirely new category, Best K-pop. Fans immediately decried the nominations, as it came off as MTV relegating [[MinorityShowGhetto BTS and other Korean idol groups to a separate space]] (ignoring BTS' performance in the US charts during the last year and even the records broken by the "Boy With Luv" music video) while only acknowledging BTS in relation to their work with a Western artist (and in the case of the other nominated groups, not even that last part).
** An [[https://www.laineygossip.com/bts-win-multiple-american-music-awards-close-show-with-performance-life-goes-on-dynamite/67521 increasing]] [[https://www.teenvogue.com/story/the-weeknd-grammy-noms-response-justin-bieber number of conversations]] have popped up regarding how, even if they do manage to grab important nominations, BTS keeps getting kept out of main categories in a manner disproportional to BTS' artistry, cultural impact and record-breaking success. Most egregiously, while there was indeed celebration for their first music-related Grammy nomination[[note]]Their very first nomination was for ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear'' for Best Recording Package[[/note]] for their English single "Dynamite" (for Best Pop [=Duo/Group=] Performance), many pointed out how not only did BTS miss out on Record or
*** "Dynamite"
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Dewicking Face Of The Band
Deleted line(s) 72 (click to see context) :
* FaceOfTheBand: An odd example. BTS present and market themselves as a group first and foremost[[note]]even songs where a lone member is a featured artist will credit him as "[member name] of BTS"[[/note]], and the importance of every member is something fans always try to emphasize. Newcomers are very quickly introduced to all of them through the content itself or through fans, to the point that even the most casual fans most likely ''will'' know everyone's names and even be aware of their solo side projects. That said (and possibly as a side-effect of being the most recognizable Korean group), Jungkook and Jimin have become this of sorts for ''Korean idol music'' as a whole. If there are idols most casual Western audiences could name (if not a group), it's most likely to be one of them, tending to appear the most in references and memes about K-pop by outsiders.
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Not YMMV and In Universe Examples Only
Deleted line(s) 209,213 (click to see context) :
* TrueArtIsAngsty:
** Some people (mostly fans of Kpop in general) still clamor to this day for a return to the darker sound and HotterAndSexier (while symbolism-heavy) aesthetics of ''WINGS'' while criticizing the softer aesthetics of their later work. In particular, even though ''The Most Beautiful Moment in Life'' and ''WINGS'' ''are'' considered complex, well-made albums in their own merits, they are often propped up by non-[=ARMYs=] as their absolute best work because of this trope, being sonically gloomier and explicitly tackling topics like depression and toxic relationships (even though these topics come up in albums before and after).
** The [=EDM/electrodance/funk-heavy=] ''LOVE YOURSELF: Her'' was criticized and dismissed by some for being LighterAndSofter than its predecessors above. This is partially a case of MisaimedFandom, with some people (mainly non-[=ARMYs=]) even ignoring the actual lyrics and themes of the series (including the CerebusSyndrome that occurs both in the series as a whole and within ''Her'' itself) and going as far as criticizing "Go Go" for only being about "partying". That said, even the fandom itself wasn't as keen initially on the album as with the next albums in the series, and the title song "[[BlackSheepHit DNA]]" remained somewhat divisive for fans for a while, especially as it was then that BTS made their US television/radio debut. Both the EP and its single have been VindicatedByHistory since.
** The relatively mixed critical reception of ''MAP OF THE SOUL: PERSONA'' is often attributed to the album's sound being too safe sonically or too self-referential lyrically, but [[https://medium.com/@heidisamiam/reading-the-room-the-magicians-bts-and-the-emotional-responsibility-of-creating-popular-culture-b077d39b3502 it has also raised some questions]] about how music with DarkerAndEdgier (and therefore more "real") themes is automatically assumed to be deeper and superior than LighterAndSofter works, even though the latter can still deal with complex, socially relevant topics.
** Zigzagged with ''MAP OF THE SOUL: 7'', which got critical acclaim while being more of a CerebusRollercoaster that also includes songs from ''PERSONA'' than something fully DarkerAndEdgier. It has darker tracks like "Interlude: Shadow" and "Black Swan", but it has a generally very light pop sound; at the same time, however, every single track (even the lighter tracks such as "Friends" or "Outro: Ego") is deeply personal and autobiographical in some way, with each one of the members telling the stories they wanted to tell as well as reflecting on stuff like what respect means or anger in social media.
** Some people (mostly fans of Kpop in general) still clamor to this day for a return to the darker sound and HotterAndSexier (while symbolism-heavy) aesthetics of ''WINGS'' while criticizing the softer aesthetics of their later work. In particular, even though ''The Most Beautiful Moment in Life'' and ''WINGS'' ''are'' considered complex, well-made albums in their own merits, they are often propped up by non-[=ARMYs=] as their absolute best work because of this trope, being sonically gloomier and explicitly tackling topics like depression and toxic relationships (even though these topics come up in albums before and after).
** The [=EDM/electrodance/funk-heavy=] ''LOVE YOURSELF: Her'' was criticized and dismissed by some for being LighterAndSofter than its predecessors above. This is partially a case of MisaimedFandom, with some people (mainly non-[=ARMYs=]) even ignoring the actual lyrics and themes of the series (including the CerebusSyndrome that occurs both in the series as a whole and within ''Her'' itself) and going as far as criticizing "Go Go" for only being about "partying". That said, even the fandom itself wasn't as keen initially on the album as with the next albums in the series, and the title song "[[BlackSheepHit DNA]]" remained somewhat divisive for fans for a while, especially as it was then that BTS made their US television/radio debut. Both the EP and its single have been VindicatedByHistory since.
** The relatively mixed critical reception of ''MAP OF THE SOUL: PERSONA'' is often attributed to the album's sound being too safe sonically or too self-referential lyrically, but [[https://medium.com/@heidisamiam/reading-the-room-the-magicians-bts-and-the-emotional-responsibility-of-creating-popular-culture-b077d39b3502 it has also raised some questions]] about how music with DarkerAndEdgier (and therefore more "real") themes is automatically assumed to be deeper and superior than LighterAndSofter works, even though the latter can still deal with complex, socially relevant topics.
** Zigzagged with ''MAP OF THE SOUL: 7'', which got critical acclaim while being more of a CerebusRollercoaster that also includes songs from ''PERSONA'' than something fully DarkerAndEdgier. It has darker tracks like "Interlude: Shadow" and "Black Swan", but it has a generally very light pop sound; at the same time, however, every single track (even the lighter tracks such as "Friends" or "Outro: Ego") is deeply personal and autobiographical in some way, with each one of the members telling the stories they wanted to tell as well as reflecting on stuff like what respect means or anger in social media.
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* {{Narm}}: The commercial they did for LG was okay enough... until an unexpected English dub version appeared. The [[DullSurprise less than enthusiastic voice acting]] ("My eyes. It's so bright.") and the fact that the English actors ''kinda'', but ''not quite'' sound like them made the dubbed version the butt of jokes from fans.
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* {{Narm}}: {{Narm}}:
** The commercial they did for LG was okay enough... until an unexpected English dub version appeared. The [[DullSurprise less than enthusiastic voice acting]] ("My eyes. It's so bright.") and the fact that the English actors ''kinda'', but ''not quite'' sound like them made the dubbed version the butt of jokes from fans.
** The commercial they did for LG was okay enough... until an unexpected English dub version appeared. The [[DullSurprise less than enthusiastic voice acting]] ("My eyes. It's so bright.") and the fact that the English actors ''kinda'', but ''not quite'' sound like them made the dubbed version the butt of jokes from fans.
** The GratuitousEnglish in their songs isn't always the best, either.
** Some of their videos have questionable special effects, like the CGI heads and obvious ChromoKey in "IDOL". Though this could be deliberate.
** Some of their videos have questionable special effects, like the CGI heads and obvious ChromoKey in "IDOL". Though this could be deliberate.
** "Interlude: Shadow" is already a gloomy song, but the music video filled with hooded figures massing up to chase around SUGA in enclosed spaces and the LastNoteNightmare cement it as this.
** "UGH!" goes even further with the aggression. Each member sounds pretty damn angry and the beat is very loud and choppy, occasionally chopped up by clips of screaming or gunfire.
** "UGH!" goes even further with the aggression. Each member sounds pretty damn angry and the beat is very loud and choppy, occasionally chopped up by clips of screaming or gunfire.
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*** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmpTkkaKYSU ''ARSON'']] is even worse: j-hope walks around under a bridge, talking about how he [[Pyromaniac burned it all]]. At the end, we get a [[SarcasmMode sweet glimpse]] at the inside of his [[GrossUpCloseUp chest cavity]], which is [[BodyHorror completely empty]], except for his [[FateWorseThanDeath heart]], which continues to [[TheUndead beat anyway]].
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*** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmpTkkaKYSU ''ARSON'']] is even worse: j-hope walks around under a bridge, talking about how he [[Pyromaniac [[{{Pyromaniac}} burned it all]]. At the end, we get a [[SarcasmMode sweet glimpse]] at the inside of his [[GrossUpCloseUp chest cavity]], which is [[BodyHorror completely empty]], except for his [[FateWorseThanDeath heart]], which continues to [[TheUndead beat anyway]].
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** In a different way, the group's and particularly RM's [[PrettyFlyForAWhiteGuy hair/fashion choices and attitude]] and less than sensitive lyrics and comments from their early years. He has acknowledged these and quite explicitly publicly regretted them, making efforts to improve along with the other members (he even has his lyrics reviewed by feminist scholars now, as well as songs with GenderNeutralWriting), but many Kpop fans surely won't let anyone forget it. You'd be surprised by the fact that he went as far as changing some lyrics for the US performances of "Fake Love" due to the Korean words for "I" and "you" ''sounding'' like the N-word, considering how much his name keeps popping up in ''any'' discussion about Kpop idols having problematic behavior (see "but namjoon" in [[Memes/{{BTS}} BTS' Memetic Mutation page]]).
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** In a different way, the group's and particularly RM's [[PrettyFlyForAWhiteGuy hair/fashion choices and attitude]] and less than sensitive lyrics and comments from their early years. He has acknowledged these and quite explicitly publicly regretted them, making efforts to improve along with the other members (he even has his lyrics reviewed by feminist scholars now, as well as songs with GenderNeutralWriting), gender-neutral writing), but many Kpop fans surely won't let anyone forget it. You'd be surprised by the fact that he went as far as changing some lyrics for the US performances of "Fake Love" due to the Korean words for "I" and "you" ''sounding'' like the N-word, considering how much his name keeps popping up in ''any'' discussion about Kpop idols having problematic behavior (see "but namjoon" in [[Memes/{{BTS}} BTS' Memetic Mutation page]]).
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The number of albums from the members' side projects is increasing.
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* ArchivePanic: They have nine full albums (five Korean and four Japanese), six mini-albums, two single albums, over 50 singles total (including guest appearances on other artists' singles), and SoloSideProject releases by most members (including two full albums and some mixtapes). Many of their videos have multiple versions, and they also have several other multimedia projects.
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* ArchivePanic: They have nine full albums (five Korean and four Japanese), six mini-albums, two single albums, over 50 singles total (including guest appearances on other artists' singles), and SoloSideProject releases by most members (including two multiple full albums and some mixtapes). Many of their videos have multiple versions, and they also have several other multimedia projects.
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Removed because it's on no real life examples.
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* HoYay: All of the members seem to have NoSenseOfPersonalSpace (though whether shipping is ethical even as a fun, non-speculative activity is a topic with a BrokenBase). [[HoYay/{{BTS}} Now with their own page]].
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* MemeticBadass: Jin is a powerful chaotic deity who will do whatever he wants, unconcerned and unfettered by the forces of other members, [=BigHit=], TV producers, or earthly beings in general. [[DudeWheresMyRespect Except Jungkook's]].
** Roughly speaking, 1 in every 3 fanart pieces featuring Yoonji will portray her with a lethal weapon.
** Roughly speaking, 1 in every 3 fanart pieces featuring Yoonji will portray her with a lethal weapon.
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* MemeticBadass: MemeticBadass:
** Jin is a powerful chaotic deity who will do whatever he wants, unconcerned and unfettered by the forces of other members, [=BigHit=], TV producers, or earthly beings in general. [[DudeWheresMyRespect Except Jungkook's]].
** Roughly speaking, 1 in every 3 fanart pieces featuring Yoonji (the name of a crossdressing Yoongi on WebVideo/RunBTS) will portray her with a lethal weapon.
** Jin is a powerful chaotic deity who will do whatever he wants, unconcerned and unfettered by the forces of other members, [=BigHit=], TV producers, or earthly beings in general. [[DudeWheresMyRespect Except Jungkook's]].
** Roughly speaking, 1 in every 3 fanart pieces featuring Yoonji (the name of a crossdressing Yoongi on WebVideo/RunBTS) will portray her with a lethal weapon.
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Just adding some nuances, since which member is the "face" or the "most famous" (sometimes understood as "most successful" as well) can be a Flame Bait topic.
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* FaceOfTheBand: Jungkook is pretty much the face of K-pop! If there is one idol most casual audiences could name, it's most likely to be him.
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* FaceOfTheBand: Jungkook An odd example. BTS present and market themselves as a group first and foremost[[note]]even songs where a lone member is pretty much a featured artist will credit him as "[member name] of BTS"[[/note]], and the face importance of K-pop! If there every member is one idol something fans always try to emphasize. Newcomers are very quickly introduced to all of them through the content itself or through fans, to the point that even the most casual fans most likely ''will'' know everyone's names and even be aware of their solo side projects. That said (and possibly as a side-effect of being the most recognizable Korean group), Jungkook and Jimin have become this of sorts for ''Korean idol music'' as a whole. If there are idols most casual Western audiences could name, name (if not a group), it's most likely to be him.one of them, tending to appear the most in references and memes about K-pop by outsiders.
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* FaceOfTheBand: Jungkook is pretty much the face of K-pop! If there is one idol most casual audiences could name, it's most likely to be him.
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Added more context.
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* ArchivePanic: ''They have a lot of content''.
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* ArchivePanic: ''They They have a lot nine full albums (five Korean and four Japanese), six mini-albums, two single albums, over 50 singles total (including guest appearances on other artists' singles), and SoloSideProject releases by most members (including two full albums and some mixtapes). Many of content''.their videos have multiple versions, and they also have several other multimedia projects.
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None
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* AwardSnub: Didn't receive a single nomination for the 2018 MTV [=VMAs=] (not even Best Choreography); this was after the period that gave us "DNA", "Mic Drop (remix)" and "[[SugarWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome Fake Love]]". To rub salt into the wound, another (American) boyband's performance was introduced in the award show as "America's favorite boyband" despite never even charting in the US, while those three songs did.
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* AwardSnub: Didn't receive a single nomination for the 2018 MTV [=VMAs=] (not even Best Choreography); this was after the period that gave us "DNA", "Mic Drop (remix)" and "[[SugarWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome Fake Love]]". To rub salt into the wound, another (American) boyband's boy band's performance was introduced in the award show as "America's favorite boyband" despite never even charting in the US, while those three songs did.
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Critical Research Failure is a disambiguation page
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*** In the same vein, the overwhelmingly negative reaction from fans to the article was directed at Herman's CriticalResearchFailure of the subject (which involved amateur translations) and misrepresentation of the fandom, and not an attempt to cover up the petition (which, again, had barely 2 digits of signatures) or (as she later claimed) accusing her of "making up" the petition.
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*** In the same vein, the overwhelmingly negative reaction from fans to the article was directed at Herman's CriticalResearchFailure lack of research on the subject (which involved amateur translations) and misrepresentation of the fandom, and not an attempt to cover up the petition (which, again, had barely 2 digits of signatures) or (as she later claimed) accusing her of "making up" the petition.
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** A review of ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear'' by ''The Guardian'' infamously had ''one'' paragraph of the whole thing dedicated to the album itself, [[CriticalResearchFailure saying that fans obviously cared more about the visuals than the music]] and basically implying "who cares?".
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** A review of ''LOVE YOURSELF: Tear'' by ''The Guardian'' infamously had ''one'' paragraph of the whole thing dedicated to the album itself, [[CriticalResearchFailure saying that fans obviously cared more about the visuals than the music]] music and basically implying "who cares?".
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** The [=EDM/electrodance/funk-heavy=] ''LOVE YOURSELF: Her'' was criticized and dismissed by some for being LighterAndSofter than its predecessors above. This is partially a case of MisaimedFandom, with some people (mainly non-[=ARMYs=]) even ignoring the actual lyrics and themes of the series (including the CerebusSyndrome that occurs both in the series as a whole and within ''Her'' itself) and going as far as criticizing "Go Go" [[CriticalResearchFailure for only being about "partying"]]. That said, even the fandom itself wasn't as keen initially on the album as with the next albums in the series, and the title song "[[BlackSheepHit DNA]]" remained somewhat divisive for fans for a while, especially as it was then that BTS made their US television/radio debut. Both the EP and its single have been VindicatedByHistory since.
to:
** The [=EDM/electrodance/funk-heavy=] ''LOVE YOURSELF: Her'' was criticized and dismissed by some for being LighterAndSofter than its predecessors above. This is partially a case of MisaimedFandom, with some people (mainly non-[=ARMYs=]) even ignoring the actual lyrics and themes of the series (including the CerebusSyndrome that occurs both in the series as a whole and within ''Her'' itself) and going as far as criticizing "Go Go" [[CriticalResearchFailure for only being about "partying"]]."partying". That said, even the fandom itself wasn't as keen initially on the album as with the next albums in the series, and the title song "[[BlackSheepHit DNA]]" remained somewhat divisive for fans for a while, especially as it was then that BTS made their US television/radio debut. Both the EP and its single have been VindicatedByHistory since.
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To quote the page, "Do not link to this on the wiki, please. Not even under the YMMV tab."
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* SugarWiki/DevelopmentHeaven: With their performances, they always find ways to make them all unique and memorable in Korean awards and year-end shows. Jimin dancing blindfolded? Dancing to near exhaustion to an extended version of "Mic Drop" (at the end of a 15-minute performance, even)? Making a heavy metal version of "DNA"? Incorporating a celebration of traditional Korean dances? They don't have to go that far, but they do it anyway.
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* NightmareFuel: The concept images for the [[https://twitter.com/BigHitEnt/status/1029019888948375552 "S" version]] and the [[https://twitter.com/BigHitEnt/status/1029020011816398848 "E" version]] of ''LOVE YOURSELF: Answer'' are pretty unsettling. The former has the [[https://twitter.com/BigHitEnt/status/1029019766831239168 members in narrow rooms]], surrounded by cameras, hands, or ''[[TheWallsHaveEyes eyes]]'' coming from the walls, creating a claustrophobic atmosphere heavy on ParanoiaFuel. The "E" version has each one of the members inside a small bubble containing pretty flowers in what ([[https://twitter.com/BigHitEnt/status/1029020133690236928 judging by the members' poses]]) is clearly a GildedCage to a [[NothingIsScarier big, empty exterior]]; if you look closely, you'll see that the flowers in Jungkook's bubble are ''dead''. The group picture in the "E" version shows the members inside a closet like dolls, tied to the cupboards.
** Interpretations of the images as representations of how the members feel in their lives as idols - as well as the similarities between the "E" version in ''Answer'' and the "O" version in ''LOVE YOURSELF: Her''- add a heavy dose of FridgeHorror.
** Version 1 of ''MAP OF THE SOUL: 7'' (see the BTS page image) shows the members in what looks like an old house, standing around a huge hole that leads to nothing but pure darkness. It can be unsettling in a NothingIsScarier sort of way.
** Interpretations of the images as representations of how the members feel in their lives as idols - as well as the similarities between the "E" version in ''Answer'' and the "O" version in ''LOVE YOURSELF: Her''- add a heavy dose of FridgeHorror.
** Version 1 of ''MAP OF THE SOUL: 7'' (see the BTS page image) shows the members in what looks like an old house, standing around a huge hole that leads to nothing but pure darkness. It can be unsettling in a NothingIsScarier sort of way.
to:
* NightmareFuel: NightmareFuel:
** The concept images for the [[https://twitter.com/BigHitEnt/status/1029019888948375552 "S" version]] and the [[https://twitter.com/BigHitEnt/status/1029020011816398848 "E" version]] of ''LOVE YOURSELF: Answer'' are pretty unsettling. The former has the [[https://twitter.com/BigHitEnt/status/1029019766831239168 members in narrow rooms]], surrounded by cameras, hands, or ''[[TheWallsHaveEyes eyes]]'' coming from the walls, creating a claustrophobic atmosphere heavy on ParanoiaFuel. The "E" version has each one of the members inside a small bubble containing pretty flowers in what ([[https://twitter.com/BigHitEnt/status/1029020133690236928 judging by the members' poses]]) is clearly a GildedCage to a [[NothingIsScarier big, empty exterior]]; if you look closely, you'll see that the flowers in Jungkook's bubble are ''dead''. The group picture in the "E" version shows the members inside a closet like dolls, tied to the cupboards.
** *** Interpretations of the images as representations of how the members feel in their lives as idols - as well as the similarities between the "E" version in ''Answer'' and the "O" version in ''LOVE YOURSELF: Her''- add a heavy dose of FridgeHorror.
** *** Version 1 of ''MAP OF THE SOUL: 7'' (see the BTS page image) shows the members in what looks like an old house, standing around a huge hole that leads to nothing but pure darkness. It can be unsettling in a NothingIsScarier sort of way.
** The concept images for the [[https://twitter.com/BigHitEnt/status/1029019888948375552 "S" version]] and the [[https://twitter.com/BigHitEnt/status/1029020011816398848 "E" version]] of ''LOVE YOURSELF: Answer'' are pretty unsettling. The former has the [[https://twitter.com/BigHitEnt/status/1029019766831239168 members in narrow rooms]], surrounded by cameras, hands, or ''[[TheWallsHaveEyes eyes]]'' coming from the walls, creating a claustrophobic atmosphere heavy on ParanoiaFuel. The "E" version has each one of the members inside a small bubble containing pretty flowers in what ([[https://twitter.com/BigHitEnt/status/1029020133690236928 judging by the members' poses]]) is clearly a GildedCage to a [[NothingIsScarier big, empty exterior]]; if you look closely, you'll see that the flowers in Jungkook's bubble are ''dead''. The group picture in the "E" version shows the members inside a closet like dolls, tied to the cupboards.
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*** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmpTkkaKYSU ''ARSON'']] is even worse: j-hope walks around under a bridge, talking about how he[[Pyromaniac burned it all.]] At the end, we get a [[SarcasmMode sweet glimpse]] at the inside of his [[GrossUpCloseUp chest cavity]], which is [[BodyHorror completely empty]], except for his [[FateWorseThanDeath heart]], which continues to [[TheUndead beat anyway]].
to:
*** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmpTkkaKYSU ''ARSON'']] is even worse: j-hope walks around under a bridge, talking about how he[[Pyromaniac he [[Pyromaniac burned it all.]] all]]. At the end, we get a [[SarcasmMode sweet glimpse]] at the inside of his [[GrossUpCloseUp chest cavity]], which is [[BodyHorror completely empty]], except for his [[FateWorseThanDeath heart]], which continues to [[TheUndead beat anyway]].
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Up To Eleven is a defunct trope
Changed line(s) 116 (click to see context) from:
** Their arrival in Chile in March 2017 led to some of the first comparisons by media to [[Music/TheBeatles Beatlemania]]. According to the ''[[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/magazine/what-does-it-take-for-a-k-pop-band-to-blow-up-in-south-america.html New York Times]]'', the concert tickets were sold-out in record time (2 hours!) despite no publicity in TV or radio and no radioplay besides Kpop-focused Internet radio stations. Fans even got the loudest screams ever recorded on the Movistar Arena... [[UpToEleven in a moment when BTS wasn't even performing]].
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** Their arrival in Chile in March 2017 led to some of the first comparisons by media to [[Music/TheBeatles Beatlemania]]. According to the ''[[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/magazine/what-does-it-take-for-a-k-pop-band-to-blow-up-in-south-america.html New York Times]]'', the concert tickets were sold-out in record time (2 hours!) despite no publicity in TV or radio and no radioplay besides Kpop-focused Internet radio stations. Fans even got the loudest screams ever recorded on the Movistar Arena... [[UpToEleven in a moment when BTS wasn't even performing]].performing.
