Dethroning Moment Anime And Manga Discussion

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02:53:22 PM Feb 28th 2018
How do I add my own entry?
09:36:59 AM Mar 18th 2016
I posted an example for Neon Genesis Evangelion, particularly the episode "Rei III". Why was it deleted?
11:28:22 AM Mar 18th 2016
According to the history, because "entire episodes are not moments."
04:09:50 PM Aug 9th 2015
Moving this here:

  • chucknormie: Seconded. Added to the fact that it was overblown and stupid, the part that irks me the most is what Kyon did and how much of a Karma Houdini he was. Yes, Haruhi crossed the line. That's not really debatable. However, the key point to remember here is that someone crossing the Moral Event Horizon does not give you permission to cross it to deal with them. It would be okay if he just got angry at her for her treatment of Mikuru, and it would have been a nice way for her to learn that he's not going to agree with everything he does, but guess what he does? He tries to hit her. There's absolutely no call for it. Even if he was angry and not thinking straight, he's twice her size, and if Koizumi hadn't stopped him he could have given her brain damage. However, the worst part about that is what happens afterward. Haruhi is horrified and attempts to change herself over the next few books. Tsuruya apologizes to Kyon in her stead. What does Kyon do? Absolutely nothing. In fact, it's never stated he even feels any remorse. Koizumi outright tells him to go apologize...and he doesn't. And he still hasn't gotten any kind of karma for his actions in 11 books and counting. He didn't even get a Get Ahold Of Yourself Man, which Koizumi was well within his rights to give him at more than one time.. He comes off looking even worse than Haruhi, and I ended up not wanting to root for either party in that exchange. The worst part is that, on this forum, many Tropers I've seen treat his actions as a Crowning Moment of Awesome! So you guys would try to hit a girl and feel proud of it?

I edited but then realized it was wrong to do so. My issue is with the implication that part of the wrongness was because Kyon was hitting a girl. The thing is that Haruhi isn't exactly a glass jaw, normally ends up abusing others (i. e. the computer club president), and has had a reputation for not listening to reason. I know hitting women is unacceptable, but sometimes it's because of Double Standards rather than men being stronger. I mean, if we're supposed to be living in a post-feminist society, why should it be more heinous that it happened to be a girl instead of another male? I wouldn't be surprised if Haruhi could take Kyon in a fight.
07:35:21 AM Nov 25th 2014
Putting this on the very much existing Discussion page due to it blatantly ignoring the "No contesting entries" rule:

  • Eddy1215 He did make up for it by coming back, admitting he lied to the dwarves, and took on an enemy he had no chance against. Later on, he did one better by saving Luffy from Sugar by sniping her from his longest distance at that point, while at the same time, awakening his Haki. Does that sound like wasted development to you?
06:37:32 PM Oct 8th 2014
So I was reading the entry for Attack on Titan and the following part of the entry I find to be highly questionable. "yet when the poor Recon Corps had the absolutely bright idea to release the Female Titan in the inner walls, killing thousands of innocent rich people just to prove a point... we see that as heroic? Get fucked." They did not do it to prove a point, they did it as it was their only chance to protect Eren from the Military Police and possibly capture the Female Titan. We are also not meant to see as heroic but rather anti-heroic. The Recon corps believed to risk hundreds over humanity growing closer to extinction several characters such as Jean and Nile Dok criticise. Considering this, I believe this entry should be reviewed for its factuality.
01:18:27 AM Oct 9th 2014
It's someone's opinion, though. Ill-justified one, but it still fits.
07:54:13 AM Mar 14th 2016
My problem with it is he makes it sound like they deliberately unleashed said titan... Need I remind you that they tried to capture her before she transformed. They didn't expect her to have a counter to being restrained like that. Don't make it sound like they did it on purpose, because it was not like they meant for the rampage and battle that followed.
11:44:15 PM Aug 31st 2013
Moving this here for now.

  • Dr Zulu 2010: Ed defeating Pride is an Ass Pull. Mostly, because the way Ed defeats Pride is by turning himself into a philosopher's stone and forcing his way into Pride. First of all, when the hell did he learned this? Also, why Hohenheim, who is a living Philosopher's stone by the way, wasn't the one who defeats him? Ed defeating Father? I can understand. But this one smells of blatant Deus ex Machina.
    • Ed learnt the 'turning himself into a Philosopher's Stone' trick when he had to remove the pole from his stomach after the fight with Kimbley in Baschool. He simply remembered it and used it to his advantage against Pride.

A. The second bullet point is unsourced and natter.

B. I don't want to significantly rewrite someone else's DMOS without their permission.
06:04:53 AM Jun 3rd 2013
I appreciate whoever edited down my submission to Haruhi Suzumiya (Lord knows I rattled on too much there), but I would have appreciated it more if they asked permission first. Can you really freely edit other peoples entries on this page? I just want to make sure that's within the rules.

(My entry is the one about Endless Eight.)

And also, where would I hypothetically put an entry for Romeo X Juliet?
09:03:30 AM Jun 3rd 2013
No, you can't freely edit other entries on the page. Certain edits are okay — formatting a link, correcting grammar, removing shouting capslock — but changing the content of the entry should not be done. (An entry based on something which didn't actually happen should be pulled to the discussion page.) That entry did need reworking, but InTheGallbladder probably should have asked you to do it or checked with you first, or removed it and posted it here until it was worked on.
08:32:34 AM Feb 23rd 2013
edited by SeaMaid96
Apologies for what may be a really stupid question. There is an anime & manga-series that has provided the one Dethroning Moment of Suck I actually have witnessed that made me angry, but the problem is that there is no page about it on this wiki... and yet, I felt like I had to vent about it somehow. So, I added an entry at the bottom of the page. Should I perhaps try to create the trope-page while I'm at it, despite only having seen the anime, or remove the dethroning moment? (The only reason I have for not trying the manga out is the lack of ANY translation, including scanlations.)
10:18:00 AM Feb 23rd 2013
It isn't a stupid question.

There doesn't have to be a wiki page for something for it to have an entry here; it doesn't matter if the name of the anime is a Red Link. If you like, you can create a page for it whilst you're at it (this can be just for the anime), but that's not a necessity.
04:18:30 AM Feb 24th 2013
Thank you for a good answer. I avoided creating a link this time, but if I create a trope page, I'll go back and change that.
04:39:01 PM Aug 28th 2012
Moving this here

  • Regu14: I love Fairy Tail, but chapter 163 has a horrible example of Morals Dissonance. After destoying Nirvana, The council comes to arrest Jellal for you know, infiltrating the council and almost using their super weapon to kill everyone at the Tower of Paradise. How does everybody react? "Jellal doesn't remember that, so that means he's done no wrong!" and attack the police! I'm sorry, what? They didn't care about Hot Eye being arrested willingly, even though he was responsible for saving all their lives. Wendy is at least tolerable since she's a child, but there is no justification for Natsu to stick up for Jellal after he nearly killed all Natsu's best firends and got one of his own killed.

It should be noted that Jellal helped Natsu defeated Zero by giving him the Flame Of Rebuke and Natsu isn't an Ungrateful Bastard. Not to mention he was Brainwashed and Crazy at the time.
10:16:22 AM Aug 26th 2012
edited by Jerrik
Moving this here:

  • KantonKage: It's surprising how Deadman Wonderland made it past the first chapter. When it's starts on an Idiot Plot. Ganta gets life in prison for what exactly, because he survived a massacre they automatically accuse him of causing in it. While it could happen in real life. However, he was unconscious at the time in the middle of it all. Did they even check for evidence? Probably not.

This is inaccurate. The authorities do not believe that Ganta killed all those people, they know exactly what happened. They are setting Ganta up in order to cover up the truth. This is shown in the first chapter, and then explicitly spelled out later on.
11:50:15 PM Aug 24th 2012
This is not the place to rant about an entire movie:

  • Rahkshi500: The Gundam00 movie, Awakening of the Trailblazer. Putting the fun action scenes aside, the movie is filled with ideas that have potential being tossed aside, like Saji practically doing nothing worth the viewers time even though he wants to help, new character Descartes dying off early without getting any kind of character development, and the movie ending with no one knowing what has ultimately become of most of the characters, how they're fairing, etc. Because to the makers, showing us the ultimate resolutions of the characters fans love is no where near as important as beating them over the head with their obnoxious anti-war message, complete with an unnecessary Albert Einstein quote.
09:44:57 AM Apr 25th 2012
I created the Yu-Gi-Oh page. If this isn't supposed to be here, feel free to tell me.
08:48:17 AM Oct 3rd 2011
edited by SamMax
It's no wonder Anno disowned all twelve of these episodes (although he DID admit that episode 31 is worthwhile, too).

The series in question is Nadia and the Secret of Blue Water, and Anno said he'd only save episodes 30 and 31 if he got the chance. He got the chance, and of all twelve episodes of the Island/Africa arc, those two episodes are still canon. I fixed it because it was a bit inaccurate, but paste it back if it goes aganst the rules.
05:51:17 PM Oct 2nd 2011
Shouldn't the Yu-Gi-Oh franchise as a whole get its own page here? Just asking!
11:33:56 PM Apr 24th 2011
Contesting the following:

  • Filler was not kind to his friend Mai Kujaku either; The DOMA arc saddled her with issues that were expressly resolved by the end of Battle City, derailing her character and turning her into a weak, emotionally vulnerable wreck for the sole purpose of ramping up the drama in an already melodramatic season.

Mai had a relapse due to being alone again. Sometimes when a person thinks they're over an event, it comes back stronger than before.
07:06:31 AM Apr 25th 2011
Read the trope description! "No contesting entries. This is subjective, the entry is their opinion."

Knock it off.
04:19:48 PM Apr 25th 2011
What contesting entries? My issue is that the entry misrepresents the truth of the matter. The YMMV part of this trope only has to do with whether a moment counts or not as a Dethroning Moment, not how the events themselves transpired.

I'm not the first person here to change entries that were misrepresented, as it's been done within the past several days, and now as an apparent result of having just done it myself, I've been edit banned. Apologies if this particular approach is unwarranted though.
04:42:37 PM Apr 25th 2011
This is a page for opinions, from what I have read you simply don't agree with the person who wrote the entry. I would only delete an entry if it was some random attack on the creator.
04:59:31 PM Apr 25th 2011
You're actually allowed to delete an entry if it's factually untrue.
07:47:26 PM Apr 25th 2011
edited by azul120
Exactly. "Issues that were expressly resolved", which is what I'm contesting, is not a subjective statement.

Apologies for changing the entry, btw. I got the impression that it was permissible for correcting entries, given that that's what a few of the more recent edits are.
10:39:05 AM Aug 18th 2010
edited by Demonsead
Guys, I tried to post an archive of the page before I edited it into line with the new guidlines, and it didn't work. Sorry. Well here are a few things:

  • Mirai Nikki - The scene where Yuki kills his friends after they try to warn him about his psycho girlfriend Yuno. Given how he had lamented his loneliness the entire series, and had been moved to tears when they promised to help him in earlier chapters, this was a massive Wall Banger to say the least. Keep in mind that he'd done this after seeing how crazy she was first hand—i.e. finding the corpses of her parents in her house, learning she was an impostor, and even being drugged and held in bondage by her while she tried to kill the same group of friends. That level of loyalty to such an imbalanced psychopath, which was done just to set-up the final confrontation and add more unnecessary Squick, was as tasteless as it was insultingly stupid.
  • In Yu-Gi-Oh 5Ds, Yusei must go up against three opponents in a row due to some clever planning by what seems like one of his more formidable opponents during a three-on-three team duel in what at first proved to be very exciting after an up to this point Seasonal Rot. After being reduced to 3 cards in his deck, he fights valiantly but still ends up drawing all of them, which means he would lose on his next draw phase. But despite this, his final opponent, Jean, doesn't simply END HIS TURN which would've won them the match, as Yusei has nothing in his deck, and instead opts to attack with a retarded looking ram-baby-thing and ends up hitting a wall to lose. He does this because he realizes that winning isn't everything and he doesn't want to win that way. In a series that has been doing contrived victories for fifteen years, this one still took the cake as the absolute most illogical and Broken Aesop filled one of them all: "Winning isn't important, as long as our hero wins, and you shouldn't win through cheap means, but doing direct damage via a freaking card from your hand that is nigh-uncounterable is just fine." Yusei doesn't even appear confused that Jean refuses to end his turn to simply win the match, it's like he's meta-aware of the fact that he'll win no matter what.
  • Episode 70 of Yu-Gi-Oh GX establishes it as one of the most sexist shonen anime in the history of shonen. Asuka Tenjouin, already neglected and underutilized up to this point, must duel Jun Manjoume to restore Obelisk Blue’s dignity. Two of the best duelists on the show going against one another with everything they’ve got, huge stakes on the line; should be a pretty epic duel, right? Unfortunately, what we get instead is a dull and tepid Curb-Stomp Battle, one of the worst ever to be put onto the small screen, lasting only five turns and making Asuka come across like a total mook. This is especially grating, seeing as this episode strongly parallels Episode 41, which was practically a celebration of how awesome Asuka really was. Considering that Asuka is one of the few female characters on the show, for her to be subjected to such a demeaning and degrading excuse for a duel in which she never gets to shine, and never truly recovers from, this episode is easily the worst that Yugioh GX has to offer.
  • The final episode of the Pandora Hearts anime. Oh boy, we finally get to face off against the main antagonist? All right, can't wait for the awesome fi— wait, you just one shot K.O.'d him? ... Really?
    • The general episode was rather jarring. Up to episode 24 its all well and fine; but then the last episode just whams you in the face with some Meaningless Meaningful Words and it feels like everything had been cramped up to an extent of where nothing is understandable as opposed to all the other episodes. Anticlimax much...
  • Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu: Purezza episode 3. Supposedly, the episode was a parody on the new character by tsundere queen Rie Kugimiya. I mean, WHAT THE HELL WAS UP WITH THE PANTY SHOTS OF HER?! This series wasn't an ecchi series at all, did they really want to piss me off or something? Basically, the whole season has had facepalm moments like this, from Shiina getting ("comically") groped in season 2, Haruka's nipples popping from her Christmas shirt in episode 4, Haruka having less screentime, having a bigger focus on Yuuto for some reason. I'm sorry, but I don't want fanservice.
  • The Grand Finale of Giant Robo has an epic conclusion that leaves you greatly satisfied... Until they throw in a Sequel Hook which very much deflates the intensity that preceded it.
  • Sailor Moon: The entire "Endy's sending bad thoughts" plotline. It's contrived and stupid and it gives Seiya fangirls too much ammo. Mamoru's enough of a cold fish anyway; did you really have to make his future self break him up with Usagi in a horribly cruel way, without telling what was going on?
    • What about the bad ending of It was all a dream that came to be thanks to a doll shaped like our annoying flying cat?.
  • The original InuYasha anime suddenly ended, not just mid-arc, not just mid-battle, but mid-swing when fans think Naraku is finally going to die. He doesn't even get hurt. Sure, the series isn't all that great, but most of the people still watching by Ep. 160 or so were doing so for closure.
    • Well... good news, everyone! Search Inuyasha: Final Act. Though it's starting to look like the "Final Act" is going to drag on as long as the old show... but Sesshomaru is actually involved in the plot now!
  • Beserk Also, the Soten filler episode in season 4 or 5. Sure, it gives an excuse for an adorable Sandbox Romance montage, but it's pointless. Also, in the original episodes, Hiten and Monten were portrayed as not having any other siblings at all. They Just Didn't Care.
    • For me, it was the end of the Tower of Conviction arc. The Author Filibuster was completely random and unnecessary, and it gave the impression that the main characters are all Darwinist psychopaths. What made it worse was that it came at the very end of an otherwise excellent story arc.
09:13:57 AM Jun 29th 2010
Can we resolve this here and not on the main page please:

  • Corporal Roy Mustang. It completely undermines his character, and motives. You have him cofidently state that his going to be leader than turn him into a moping whiner? Yes, Ishval was traumatic but losing an eye shouldn't bring him over the edge. It's Advent Children all over again except Cloud was replaced with Mustang. No, having them overcome problems they already overcome does not count as Character Development it counts as bad writing. (Charred Knight)
    • I know there's supposed to be "no justifying edits," but I absolutely have to point out that your complaint is completely void. You missed the reason why Mustang demoted himself by a mile it was to put himself in a better position to find Edward & Mustang couldn't even become Fuhrer because Amestris became a democracy after Bradley fell. And while I'm at it, where do you get the idea that if you "deal" with a traumatic issue it's gone forever with no questions asked? The human mind does not work that way....
04:37:54 PM Apr 25th 2011
I am sorry it took so long to notice this, but Mustang didn't do anything to find Edward, he did it because he felt bad about the Ishvalan Massacre. If Mustang wanted to find Ed he would be helping Al who was actually trying to find Ed. That entire scene was pointless, Mustang got better offscreen, and it just brings up the question about how Mustang was able to reach Central from Briggs just in time to help stop the invasion.
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