Rework : GAR

Set it as a fan term, with a link to Rated M for Manly for the trope.

Fight smart, not fair.

Edited the Rated M for Manly page's description that was incorrect. GAR is a character's description, to begin with, while Rated M for Manly describes a work's style. Not to mention that GAR is supposed to be gender neutral.

^ Obviously, it is a term that is used by a fandom, therefore it is a fandom term, but we only keep example-less "fandom term" pages when they are terms for a pre-existing trope name, such as Dojikko to Cute Clumsy Girl, when they are perfectly the same thing.

On the previous page, several tropes were suggested from Badass and Memetic Sex God to Memetic Badass, Stupid Sexy Flanders, and Rated M for Manly, that cover a similar concept as GAR but none of them is so precisely the same thing that we could just send the readers over there and say: "see, these are the examples of the trope that we know as x, but the Anime fandom knows as GAR"

edited 3rd Sep '10 6:32:15 AM by Superior

De gustibus non est disputandum.

What does GAR bring to the table that isn't just a composite of other, very closely related tropes?

BTW, I'm a chick.

That's my question. I'm still scratching my head over it.

I still say to nuke it from orbit.

I am a proud member of the Western Federation's Anti-Japan Media Task Force. My work is very important.

I think it's pretty well summarised in the first paragraph: The admiration of Badassery, as a replacement/variation of physical attraction.

Is there any other trope about that?

edited 3rd Sep '10 9:44:31 AM by Superior

De gustibus non est disputandum.

Oh.

Commander Shepard in a nutshell.

Unfortunately, I don't think we have anything that could fit.

I am a proud member of the Western Federation's Anti-Japan Media Task Force. My work is very important.

I think the page should be kept on as an explanation of a commonly-used term, but the examples should be cut.

GAR is not the same thing as Rated M for Manly (that is not a character trope, and it is possible for female characters to be GAR). It's closer to Badass. It's not the same Memetic Badass either - that's exaggerating a character's accomplishments (which may or may not be impressive) and is external to the character themselves.

edited 3rd Sep '10 2:07:58 PM by Prime32

I agree that it would probably be a good idea to do something with this trope, but I am not really sure what to do. I do think that the actual term "GAR" is not necessarily a fitting name. I would not be opposed to a cut if the actual trope was not fleshed out a bit more. I feel like unless there are more clear standards about what characters fit under that category the examples should be cut even if the trope remains. Otherwise, I think it just turns into talking about characters you like or think are tough or what have you.

I have been having a problem coming up with an answer to that. I mean, I think I can see Superior's point, but I do not know if I totally understand the trope myself. If this is kind of a different version of Even the Guys Want Him for people who are tough, then I see that as possibly being a legitimate trope. Sorry, I guess I am just not really sure about it.

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d

From what I've seen, the term 'gar' is generally used in two ways. The original meme was "I'm gar for Character X", derived from a mispelling of 'gay'. This is essentially an out-of-universe version of Even the Guys Want Him derived primarily from admiration of Character X's Badass status rather than any sense of physical attraction. This meaning is distinct enough from any existing trope page that making a fanspeak page for it would make sense, but since this is essentially a (subjective) audience reaction there's no point to making an example list, as it would essentially be a narrower version of Gushing About Characters You Like. Maybe a Troper Tales page, but that's it.

The other form of usage is "Character X is gar", where 'gar' is essentially used as a synonym for "Badass in a manly fashion" - although the manly part is decaying pretty badly if people are calling Nodoka Miyazaki gar these days. I don't think this usage is really noteworthy in any way, since the manliness standards are kinda vague and the Badass page already has a couple hundred subtropes as it is. A brief sentence on the Badass or Memetic Badass page would get the point across just fine.

edited 3rd Sep '10 4:39:33 PM by RandomDude

^ The only form of usage is "Character X is Gar". It may be not the case of the original meme, but it is how it have been used since then. Gar is a character type and it always was.

You are mostly correct with the rest, though. Originally, a Gar character was one who invoked Even the Guys Want Him from the audience. Then it was about character who were Badass due to their "manlyness". And now it is about any character who is Badass. Also, some related Gar to hot bloodness (even though Archer was not hot blooded), apparently thanks to Gao Gai GAR.

My vote would be make it again a redirect of {{Badass}. As said, if people are calling Nodoka Gar then the Trope decayed badly and it is, indeed, just another name for Badass. I would like a small paragraph in there to explain this term, though.

Get rid of it. It's just the Anime fan version of Memetic Badass and Rated M for Manly combined. There's not even an explanation of the name on the page. We don't need this.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

It shouldn't be cut since its a fan term and it really is different than any trope I can think of... but examples could be ditched.

And Nodoka after her moment vs Dynamis I heard GAR thrown around a lot.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

That Nodoka example is what makes me think it should just be a redirect to Badass. I also heard it a lot when this chapter come out. If people are calling Nodoka Gar nowadays then the Trope decayed so badly there is little to no point to keep it page.

But this trope is more 'the fanbase loves them because of their badassness' which fits to a tee. Its nearly taken over the never live it down of the OT3 thing.

edited 4th Sep '10 8:08:45 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

So you are purposing changing the trope to be less about mainlyness and more about fanbase liking a character for their badassness? Well, it is not quite the same as the other tropes, I suppose. Memetic Badass don't really need to be badass, the trope is about the fanbase exaggerating a character badass status. And I suppose not every badass character is loved by the fanbase.

But, still, Gar is an annoying name for a trope. The concept has mutated so much that it is hard to associate to a single thing. A trope named Gar can be about "loved by the fanbase badass characters", "loved by the fanbase overly manly badass characters" and "hot blooded badass characters". The only thing really consistent is the 'badass'.

The name deserve be descripted somewhere, as it is of common use in the anime fanbase, but it don't make a good name for a trope as even in that fan base it has more then one definition.

edited 4th Sep '10 8:20:15 AM by Heatth

That's what I always thought GAR ment or well how its been used for the past few years and that's what Superior was saying too.

Edit ninjaed

edited 4th Sep '10 8:24:18 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

You are not wrong. It is how it has been more commonly used nowadays. But it has being used in different ways in the past. The 'hot blooded badass character' definition, for example. It has nothing to do with Archer but it was how I first entered in contact with the term.

To be more precise, the first time I saw the term was in a discussion about Suzumiya Haruki personality in a thread on another forum. In the end it was concluded his boisterous personality could be defined as Gar. Few, if any, discussed it. Haruki is not really badass, even if he is awesome, and he is not really loved by at last half of the thread due to the endless Unfortunate Implications of his treatment to Kyonko and Mitsuuru. Yet, everyone there agreed he was Gar, meaning their definition of Gar is different from yours and Superior's. Of course, this was one or two years ago, but, still means the term can be defined in a vastly different way in different places.

Edit: Who was ninjad by who? There are just us here.

edited 4th Sep '10 8:34:25 AM by Heatth

Maybe we should make Gar a fan-speak page discussing the evolving use of the term in anime fandom.

I was responding to v1 of your post and ya edited 2 more paragraphs so you ninja edited on me.

Anyway the term has really evolved over the years but the current meaning is a trope I think although subjective or its got to come from the fanbase as a whole.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

^ Ah, I forgot I had edited that post.

Anyway, even if the current meaning is universal in the anime fandom (witch I am not sure it is), it evolved way too quickly one or two years is not that much time. Who knows how the fanbase will be using it next?

^^ That seem to be the most sensible thing to do. With an additional short paragraph about the term in all related tropes. That would be, Badass, Memetic Badass and Hot-Blooded.

The parts of fandom I generally hang around still restrict the term to the Jack Rakans and Master Asias of the world. Seeing it applied to someone like Nodoka, whose badassness comes mainly from the contrast to the Shrinking Violet that she started the series out as, was a real shock.

edited 4th Sep '10 9:09:28 AM by RandomDude

Saying it's like Memetic Badass doesn't help a whole lot. That's one of those tropes that should probably go also, or at least move to Subjective or Sugar Wiki. A fan's opinion or memetic distortion of a character is not a trope in fiction, it's an irritating phenomenon that happens in real life and especially the Internet.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

No one is saying it is like Memetic Badass. It is related to but not the same thing. Also, aren't we agreeing already it is not a good trope name?

'Gar' is a trope. However, it is at last 3 different tropes. Using it as a name don't work at all.

So the three different tropes are

• Memetic Badass, loved because of his macho hot-bloodedness (Kamina, Bang Shishigami)
• Memetic Badass, loved because of his badass-ness (Archer, Auron)
• Just Memetic Badass. (Nodoka)

Nodoka's about as Moe as they come, but if people are calling her GAR, they're calling her GAR. Which means that GAR is not only a bad title, the trope itself is vaguely-defined, usage of the word is subject to change, and it's just a subjective trope with aspects covered by other tropes and The Same But More Specific. Except nobody can agree on which specific.

edited 4th Sep '10 9:53:19 AM by Heart-mint

^ It don't need to be Memetic at all. A Memetic Badass is a character whose own badassness is exaggerated by the fandom. A gar don't need to be exaggerated, it just need to be badass. Nodoka, for example, never had her baddass status overplayed, but she was declared to be gar in that particular scene just because she did some badass things.

Also, you missed my point about Hot-Blooded characters.