The Ace Attorney Series

I didn't like Turnabout Time Traveler, and not just because it brought back Larry. Edgeworth felt massively out of character the whole time, not even willing to listen to any rebuttals from Phoenix. What happened to finding the truth? Never mind that, let's just end the trial immediately.

Also, Pierce felt kinda lelrandom at the end as opposed to how calm and composed he'd been up that point. I also did not care for the rather blatant omission of all post-Trilogy characters in a game that's post-Trilogy.

Well, once you become Chief Prosecutor, loaded with work and the staff chickens out (thus giving you more work), I assume things like "finding out the truth" take a step back.

I hated that, too. "My subordinates were too scared to take this case." You mean Klavier, who was willing to prosecute the son of the yakuza in his first appearance? Or Blackquill, who is, well, Blackquill?

I assume they were busy playing music and eating soba, or whatever

EDIT: Also isn't it a thing that the Prosecutor's Office is shortstaffed since Miles got rid of all the bad ones?

edited 12th May '18 2:56:34 AM by asterism

It is.

How hard do you think those two were overworked? Imagine being forced to give them vacations because they look ready to faint all the time.

Playing through Dual Destinies right now (about to start Case 3 Trial 1) and it seems to me that the Mood Matrix is effectively "Magatama but with Science and at Trial". Sure, you only present evidence occasionally, but the intervals that the Noise percentage go through make me think "Psyche-Locks":

• First Break at 50% = 2 Psyche-Locks, First Lock Broken
• First Break at 60% = 2 Psyche-Locks but the 2nd is tougher if the next point is 20% or 3 Psyche-Locks if the next point is 30%.

At least they made the Bracelet applicable outside of Trial.^note That meddling bird!

EDIT: It may just be my inner Shipper, but I'm getting some Diego vibes from Apollo during Trial 3 Day 1.^note I was going to use a Grossberg quote, but then I realized how it could be misinterpreted...

edited 20th May '18 3:09:22 PM by DonaldthePotholer

Reminded me of Kristoph before the reveal, personally.

That's definitely more apparent in the final trial.

I don't think that Kristoph ever used an animal diminutive for Apollo, much less a feline diminutive. I was actually considering adding the following rule to the Drinking Game:

The only Kristoph-like behavior I saw Apollo exhibiting in Trial 3 was utter shock at the more out-of-left-field leaps-of-fact by Athena.^note Hypocrite, much? I'm thinking that Kristoph was trying to subtly direct Apollo in 4-1 while Apollo was going with Athena's flow, snark and all.^note Much like Diego in 3-4.

I also pegged Robin as a potential Worthy Opponent to Apollo and would have loved to see them duke it out in Court one day. On that note, I don't think that the three friends having the same colors as our three protags was a coincidence. I've only "heard" Broad Strokes about the er... state of affairs at WAA,^note nothing about case 5-5 itself... but for some reason, my Foreshadow sense is tingling...

One more thing: Justice-Woods Shippers were cheated in the English version! Seriously, Cutting off the story at the start of Serenade?! PENALTY!

Actually, one more thing... The Wright Anything Agency probably now has a third act besides killer magic and bad piano playing:

(Granted, Widget would break the routine... and turn it into something that could actually compete on stage!)

Heck, if their act Placed in a contest... and they then had to defend another participant in a murder investigation:

The way Apollo was nonplussed by a lot of Blackquill's theatrics reminded me of Kristoph, though I suppose it's not unlike Diego in 3-4 either.

• Nonplussed by opponent de'jour's theatrics = Every Protag in the AA games.^note Yes, Including Edgeworth.
• Nonplussed by Lead Council's theatrics would be Kristoph, as I stated before, along with every non-Protag in the AA games aside from the Assistant, and even then it's a 50-50 split.^note EDIT: Granted, at the time, Kristoph was the "Assistant".

edited 22nd May '18 4:57:22 PM by DonaldthePotholer

Completed Dual Destinies yesterday, but I'm waiting for the next Sale to see if it applies to DLC case.

If we went through the game in chronological order, the intro to Mega Man 4 could have fit rather well as the game's intro. It would give an overview regarding Phoenix's part in "The Dark Age of the Law" with a quick synopsis of "Turnabout Trump". As a bonus, we would get Apollo and Phoenix riding on top of a train, with Athena fading-in behind mid-scene.

Case 5-5, however, would have its own intro. Specifically, Mega Man 5's.

And you were right, Weirdguy, Apollo did exhibit Kristoph's mannerisms...

...for all of one full Testimony:

• What I Expected: The legal equivalent of the X vs Zero fight in Mega Man X5
• What I Got: A Surprisingly Short Mini Quest. Not necessarily easy, mind you, but short.

Granted, I don't think it was an "act", and was a good visual cue of how close Apollo was to the edge. Especially with how Aura kept him while throwing out Phoenix and Trucy; I thought that she was Turning him. But it ended up rather Compressed. Apollo wanted to be saved. Then again, it probably helped that they took care of Dr. Cykes' murder first; it really was the only crime that was severable and there was no way that Athena could've sabotaged the HAT-1. Then again, for a little while, I thought that Athena was (somehow) a Manchurian Agent, in part due to her emotional fainting spell, though she still couldn't pull off the HAT-1 Disaster, given her age then. Of course, in that case, Dr. Cykes would have to have been the saboteur... but then why would she have herself killed?

I will say, though, having witnesses talking to each other at the same stand was bad enough on its own... but it was especially bad in Case 5-5. Seriously, if they continue the series, they need to actually have a camera shot of the Defendant's box. It would have been useful in 5-5 when Clonco would be occupying the box opposite Athena.

I liked that the First Charge had a segment where you could switch between Phoenix and Athena. What I didn't like is that they didn't carry that concept over to the Final Boss. Said Boss could defeat Athena working on her own, and he would likely defeat Apollo working on his own, but it would likely be all that he could do to stave off a combined attack from the two. He would enable him to cover the most recently exploited weak point, but exposing another by doing so.^note Different Emotion, Different Tell, lather, rinse, repeat. And by the time he's able to block both the ear and the eye, Phoenix could give him the finger!^note With evidence. A couple of these sequences, with help from Taka whenever the Boss tries to interfere prematurely, should have whittled the case down enough for Edgeworth to arrive with his evidence.

The closing also fell rather short, with only Trucy being identified among the hostages. Given the circumstances of the investigation, Juniper and possibly Sol should also have been among the hostages. Even if Junie wasn't among the hostages, she still should've been in the Gallery for moral support of Athena. Heck, if it wasn't for Pearl, I would have wanted Juniper to stand in for Trucy as an 11th-Hour Ranger. Either way, Junie and Sol should have been part of the victory party.

On that note, Why couldn't the deadline central to the plot have been pushed back by a little over a week? Seriously, why not make the execution date of a prosecutor the night after the anniversary of the death of a defense lawyer? The only reason I can see is to allow Apollo to spend Christmas with (at least) one of the two girls he met over the past year. The good news is that he probably will be doing so; the bad news is that it will probably be at a Cremation Service.

Combining the two leads to another question: Why did the ending not include Clay's funeral?^note Or at least mention that HAT-3 would carry his cremated remains for orbital dispersal? Then again, why did the ending to Case 1-2 not include Mia's Funeral? And did the Anime rectify the latter?

I've been having quite a bit of thoughts today,^note I beat the game at 1 in the morning last night then went to sleep immediately thereafter, then listened to music while making this post... and other observations... Some of these have to do with the "Dark Age of the Law"; I'm of the faction that it was always in effect, or at least during and since the Debeste era.

Another thought line was "What if UR-1 never happened?" Combining the potential scenarios leads me to believe that UR-1 was a vital nail to the eventual ending of the Dark Age.^note Nice Job Fixing It, "Phantom". Let's just say that Athena wasn't the only lady that was moved by the travesty of justice that was People vs. Blackquill.

Then there's the question of how the Anime would do these episodes. Personally, I think that this game should be adapted in chronological order, not in in-game presentation order. There is the question as to where to start Apollo Justice, though...

Finally, during the first half of 5-3, I often referred to Hugh as "Kristoph Jr." But... between the resolution of that case and Athena's Black Locks, I have to wonder... what secrets were Kristoph keeping from himself? I believe it should be Apollo's task to find out, but, if the series continues, I would rather have him rest for Game 7, let Athena take the reins for one round.

So what do you think of Bobby Fulbright turning out to be the phantom? Also, I'd recommend going to Spirit of Justice after the DLC case (which is actually very good albeit ridiculous-sounding at first).

To be honest, it was somewhat of a shock; my reaction was similar to Apollo's when he indicted Kristoph in "Turnabout Trump".

But it was muted by the inconsistencies with the lighter that were brought up during Apollo's Interrogation, combined with the fact that Clay's murder was not severable from the HAT Bombings, as opposed to Dr. Cykes' murder. I was wanting the detective's head for Falsifying Evidence, not knowing that that was the tip of the iceberg.

EDIT: I was highly shocked, however, when I learned that the Phantom was impersonating Fulbright, and that the real detective was dead a year prior. That was a twist.

Which reminds me, regarding my last post as to how the Victory Celebration had a few people absent who should have been there: I'm guessing that Juniper's Bum Rap Rhiny was buried under the rubble. Yet another thing to rectify if the Anime gets to DD; insofar as it should get found and returned during said Victory Celebration.

And I'd have to tackle the DLC case anyway if I want to rearrange the Headscratchers page. And I would put the mainline cases in chronological order, given how closely connected Cases 1, 4, & 5 are. I even have a name for the folder:

"The Third Week of December"^note As the events take place from December 15-21.

That also startled me, that Apollo's Leave of Absence only amounted to 48 Hours. But, again, why couldn't they have put it in the 4th week of December aligning Athena and Simon's liberations with Edgeworth's?

edited 27th May '18 7:28:22 PM by DonaldthePotholer

Anyone else feel that Ace Attorney 5 insisting that it's taking place duirng the Dark Age of the Law feels hollow after the bleakness that was Ace Attorney 4?

I'm guessing the media decided it was the Dark Age of the Law all of a sudden after a defense attorney killed somebody, shady mafia deals were going on, a detective actively tried to frame a child for a murder that he himself committed, and then that same defense attorney attempted to kill everyone having to do with Phoenix Wright's disbarment, all within a few weeks.

The Media, perhaps. Of course, those events happened over the course of six months...

I'm wondering if the Japanese version listed certain events from Ace Attorney Investigations 2 as one of the reasons for "The Dark Age", along with the murder of Dr. Cykes and Phoenix's downfall? Regardless, the Dark Age was always there; it's just that the P.I.C. Auction scandal, (among others,) the downfall of a respected Attorney, and a Prosecutor confessing to murder, made things impossible to ignore, or at least gave Lawyers of both sides license to ignore all decorum.

Phoenix provided a Respite... a Hope Spot if you will. And though Edgeworth was there, he was by-and-large alone.

Phoenix's fall, even coming at the end of a corrupt Administration, was the end of Hope... for 7 years... and even then, it took a while to grow back...

Although one has to wonder... how having a super-lawyer like Phoenix... changed the actions of criminals?

It's stated that the Dark Age of the Law was started by two cases: Magnifi Gramarye (where a defence attorney is disbarred for using forged evidence) and Metis Cykes (where a prosecutor is convicted of murdering his mentor)

The latter seems a bit odd, given that it's hardly the first time a prosecutor killed someone, but there you go.

IIRC the japanese translation also lists the events of investigations 2 as causes for the dark age of law. They didn't mentionned it in the translation as most people wouldn't understand it.

edited 28th May '18 5:43:11 AM by Yumil

Makes sense. I can't think finding out that the organization designed to root out corrupt prosecutors was being run by a corrupt prosecutor would do much to restore confidence.

More like including that vital bit of info would create a Dub-Induced Plot Hole, considering it referred to events in a game that has yet to have an international release.

that's what I meant.

Khruai'n's Dark Age of L Aw was much more convincing to me then Ace attorney 4 and 5's variants of it are.

On the other, You can trace the Dark Age of Law's routes all the way back to Manfred Von Karma....

I really wish the second Edgeworth game and the two Dai Gyakuten Saiban games would be released in the West. I know there are fan translations out there but I'm always nervous about those because, like, this is a series where one of the most important things is the precise specifics of what a person said.