Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Yeah he was kicked out because he "liked killing a little too much" so he wanted to get revenge on John by taking the life of his daughter, and he joined up with Arius for this. He was okay with Arius killing all his old teammates, and he did not care if an entire country was destabalised just as long as he got to kill Jenny in the end And at the end when John shows up, he decides to kill them both.

Arius also wanted revenge on John for having him replaced as president of Val Verde, which is why he had Jenny kidnapped, Arius wanted to have that president killed so he could retake his position, and he and Bennett were going to kill Jenny anyway after it was done because they both had a grudge against him. Bennett seems more petty though. Arius wants revenge because he lost his position as president for the crimes he committed while Bennett wanted revenge for being kicked out for killing people.

edited 25th Mar '14 4:54:50 PM by bobg

Hmmm, I don't remember it being so...detailed.

WHY ARE WE ALL SHOUTING?

Anyway, with seven yeas and no nays, I give you Mr. Drax:

• Though his plan is smaller in scale than his film counterpart's, Ian Fleming's original version of Sir Hugo Drax in Moonraker is no less vile. Born "Hugo von der Drache" in Germany and an avid fan of Hitler, Drax ran undercover missions against Britain for the Reich until he was mistakenly wounded by his own side and nursed back to health by the British. Stealing the identity of a MIA soldier with a similar name and feigning amnesia, Drax murdered the first rich man he could find after leaving the hospital for startup money and began plotting to avenge Nazi Germany's defeat. Using his family's holdings in rare metals, Drax paid out of his own pocket to design the Moonraker, a state-of-the-art nuclear missile meant to defend Britain from the Russians, with Drax's philanthropy elevating him to a national hero. The only problem was, the missile was set to destroy London on its first test-firing with a real atomic bomb. When Drax describes the intended death toll for this catastrophe to him, Bond, a hardened killer himself, is left almost catatonic. Other crimes include running a motorist off the road and over a cliff due to the mere possibility he might've been a spy, and having people tortured for information with welding torches. For Drax, the mere destruction of their greatest city was not enough; he made himself into the British people's greatest hero just so their collective spirits would be crushed when the nuke hit.

edited 25th Mar '14 4:58:22 PM by HamburgerTime

I'll sleep on whether Bennett is a monster and make a decision tomorrow morning before locking.

Oh, and LOUD NOISES!

edited 25th Mar '14 5:01:57 PM by ACW

I DON'T KNOW!

h movie states that araius lost his position because of John.

It's also stated that John was the one who had Bennett kicked out.

Now they were working together on a scheme that had them kidnapping his daughter, forcing John to kill the new president, and than killing the daughter anyway.

The first step involved killing the living members of John's old unit, which Bennett was apparently okay with, as was he apparently okay with having Val Verde being run by a madman.

@ 23251, so should Gleeman Vox be cut from the Ratchet and Clank section?

@23253: Ah, much better entry for Kore. I always wondered about Myrorg since I read the comic but never saw him appear. I agree with cutting him.

@23265: Good entry for Drax.

@23269: Well, personally I don't find Vox as heinous as Drek, and I'm not sure where that estimate of thousands of people being on that space station came from as I don't remember it ever being said onscreen. Also, the entry calling them "innocent viewers" kind of glosses over the fact that they're eagerly watching people fight to the death for entertainment. I'd lean towards cutting Vox, but I wouldn't raise a fuss if he was voted keep.

Wanted to also propose a new entry for Bernard Loredo from The Witcher. Here's his current entry below...

• The Witcher 2 continues the trend of corrupt village hicks being utter bastards with Bernard Loredo, who can be best described as a greedy and selfish bastard with zero sense of empathy. The description is spot-on, given that the guy imprisoned, beat and raped an elven woman, who was so broken by these tortures that she killed herself as soon as she gave birth. It also turns out that he was willing to sell Flotsam, the town he was dictating over, to the kingdom of Kaedwen, an act which would render him a traitor to the country.

His current entry really skips out on most of his crimes, so here's my proposed rewrite below.

• Bernard Loredo from the second game, The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings is technically a law man, the Commandant in charge of the trading town of Flotsam. In reality, he's a thug who runs the town like his own personal fiefdom, controlling the drugs, the illegal fighting pits, and instituting racist policies against nonhumans. Loredo is first introduced pretending to be about to show mercy to a thief on the gallows, only to kick the lever sending his victim to his demise. He then threatens Geralt's two best friends with a similar fate if the Witcher doesn't do what he asks. When Iorveth's men kill some of Loredo's, Loredo sends out his soldiers, dressed as commoners, to incite riots against the innocent, nonhuman residents of Flotsam. This leads to butchery and mass murder of nonhumans in the streets. Eventually, Loredo has the Scoia'tael members and their sympathizers rounded up on a prison barge, on the record to be sent to a nonhuman prison, but off the record to drown all of them upriver. If Geralt sides with Roche and kills Loredo, the Witcher will discover, despite Loredo's hatred of nonhumans, the Commandant imprisoned, beat and raped an elven woman for a year, eventually impregnating her. The woman was so traumatized by the events that immediately after giving birth she killed herself. Should Geralt choose to side with Iorveth and hijack the prison barge, Loredo responds by spitefully trying to burn down a building full of elven women. If Geralt chooses to save the women rather than kill Loredo, Loredo will succeed in selling out the very town he's in charge of to the kingdom of Kaedwen, labeling him a traitor to his country.

edited 25th Mar '14 8:56:27 PM by OccasionalExister

Oh, Kore's entry should have the addition to attacking Minmax and Forgath...despite the fact they were fighting with the Goblin Adventure Party too.

Okay, back on a real computer now. Rapid fire response time go!

On Al-Asad, he's an easy keep. Zakhaev is the guy with the son. In this case I would say that we lean on the side of keeping him. Although we never get the sense of wether or not he did love his son, he did plenty of heinous things and going off we do know it's more of a leap to say he did love his son than it is to say he didn't.

@ Skull Face - I finished Metal Gear Solid Ground Zeroes last night and reaffirm my position that it's too soon to even consider discussing Skull Face. Ground Zeroes is quite literally the prologue, and factoring in his on-screen appearance (which clocks in at about eight minutes of him just walking around and talking to people) and the audio tapes (which go considerably longer and where all his heinous acts take place) there are exactly two scenes with him in it, both of which he's "on the job" so to speak so we have very little to really define his character, and we know for a fact that he is going to be in the Phantom Pain where hopefully he'll get some character development.

@ long examples in general - I will put out there my general preference that examples be kept shorter rather than longer. We don't need a synopsis of every last deed they did, just enough to convey the point across. This is mostly personal preference but we also have to keep in consideration that some of these subpages are getting closer to the character limit. As to an example of how I would shorten things:

@ Drax - Example looks good, but you shouldn't be comparing him to the film version since the book version came first and the status of one character is completely and utterly irrelevant to other versions of him. Complete Monsters should only be compared to other characters within the same work. The bit about Bond being near catatonic could get the cut and it wouldn't affect the quality of the work, since being a hardened killer doesn't mean you're indifferent to large scale slaughter. The bit of the other crimes I feel also adds nothing; he's planning to kill millions of people, running one man off the road out of paranoia doesn't even begin to compare, the Cold-Blooded Torture bit can stay. And the final line is good but is a bit too far away from the bit about the nuke.

@ Bernard Loredo - I find the revised example to go to far in the other direction, we don't need to be making these examples a synopsis of everything that they do.

I understand your reservations on longer entries. I guess it's kind of obvious from what I post that I prefer longer ones, but I'll try to make my entries more condensed in the future. For Loredo, it was difficult for me to paint a comprehensive picture of him since the game he's in is so choice-based. Depending on what they do, some players won't see the events detailed below, but I still believe that they're heinous enough to warrant mention. I've deleted some lines detailing lesser crimes and to tried to make it more concise. Is this entry better?

• Bernard Loredo from the second game, The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings is the thuggish Commandant of Flotsam who runs the town like his own personal fiefdom, running criminal enterprises and instituting racist policies against nonhumans. When Iorveth's men kill some of Loredo's, Loredo sends out his soldiers to incite riots against the innocent, nonhuman residents of Flotsam, leading to butchery and mass murder of nonhumans in the streets. Eventually, Loredo has the Scoia'tael members and their sympathizers rounded up on a prison barge which he plans on sinking instead of delivering to prison. If Geralt sides with Roche and kills Loredo, the Witcher will discover, despite Loredo's hatred of nonhumans, the Commandant imprisoned, beat and raped an elven woman for a year, eventually impregnating her. The woman was so traumatized by the events that immediately after giving birth she killed herself. Should Geralt choose to side with Iorveth and hijack the prison barge, Loredo responds by spitefully trying to burn down a building full of elven women. If Geralt chooses to save the women rather than kill Loredo, Loredo will succeed in turning traitor and selling out Flotsam to the kingdom of Kaedwen.

edited 25th Mar '14 11:19:57 PM by OccasionalExister

Final verdict? Keep Bennett.

New Loredo writeup looks good.

edited 26th Mar '14 2:28:58 AM by ACW

Looks decent, I'd say well done.

So if nobody has any objections, I'll rewrite Israphel's entry and cut the other ones, bar maybe Jock_Fireblast, as I'm not sure whether or not his burning down of Mistral City and Barbecue Bay counts as Offscreen Villainy.

I'll vote to cut all Commando examples...honestly, I think they're too 'stock' for this.

I still think that Bennett may count since he's Disproportionate Retribution to the max. The only other person to counter him for this trope is Roger from American Dad!, and he doesn't even count!

I'll rewatch Commando today (not a great sacrifice since I love the film) and give my vote afterwards.

Since it's been about a week since I brought him up for removal, I'll cut the Creature in the Tall Grass from True Detective in twenty-four hours provided there are no objections.

That's fine.

Right, my verdict for Bennett is . He's an amoral, insane, revenge-obsessed Blood Knight, but he doesn't really do enough evil things to qualify for CM-hood in my opinion. He's got a CM personality, but lacks a heinous enough rap sheet. His willingness to kill Jenny is the main point of contention, but in the end it's clear that killing her wasn't really that important as long as he got his fight with Matrix ("I don't need the girl!").

edited 26th Mar '14 5:12:10 PM by LordXavius

Was there ever a decision for Damian from The Omen?

Also, this Ong-Bak entry needs expansion:

• Complete Monster: The wheelchair-bound crime boss who talks through a hole in his throat cynically sells his country's religious treasures to foreigners and causally orders the deaths of anyone who tries to protect them.

edited 26th Mar '14 6:30:58 PM by TVRulezAgain

In any case, Damian's current entry is a ZCE. I guess the real issue with him is moral agency, I'm not sure what to think about it. Maybe I'll have to rewatch those films too.

the only film Damian can count in would be the Omen part III...he abandons all previously redeeming qualities with his love for his cousin Mark by murdering him and...

interestingly, Damian has a scene in 2 when he screams "Why me?" but embraces his role as the antichrist. It's also hinted he could redeem himself. If he wanted to, but he doesn't.

I'll do a writeup on Damian if he does qualify for this trope.

I think it's worth noting we should strictly limit that to the third film. Given he's a rapist, murderer, omnicidal nutbar and orders his cult to murder babies, he could easily qualify there on heinousness

I'm gonna attempt a rewrite of Bill Sikes from Oliver Twist. It's been years since I've read the book so bear with me.

• Bill Sikes from Oliver Twist is one of the most vicious characters that Charles Dickens. A brute who beats his dog and uses young Oliver to further his criminal career, his worst act is killing his girlfriend Nancy in cold blood when he thinks she betrayed him. Other criminals fear him and his violent temper and none of the other villains come close to matching him in being an utter bastard.