Not Tropeworthy: Everybody Hates Ares

Why is this repair effort contingent on someone making a supertrope?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

It just seemed that a large part of the discussion was that something ought to replace the Ares trope.

I've seen other TRS threads have similar indexes and new tropes in their crowners, or do you mean that we should just cut the Ares trope and leave it at that?

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

Recap #2 (#1 here)

I’ve added the redirects to Everybody Hates Ares to the cut list, since they had a total of 2 inbounds between the five of them. I guess the next two things to do would be to dewick Everybody Hates Ares and to discuss the possible supertropes.

We've discussed Everybody Hates Hades, and there's consensus that a supertrope is missing. While I believe this supertrope is between Everybody Hates Hades and its other supertropes (namely Sadly Mythtaken), it could be that a missing supertrope lies between what Everybody Hates Ares was and what the Hades trope is. I think what we’re looking for are missing supertropes that catch Everybody Hates Ares, Everybody Loves Zeus, Gods Of Harlots And Adulterers (a “Hates Aphrodite” trope), and other potential hate/love deity of X tropes.

So far, I think we’ve discussed the following options (specific names can be hammered out in TLP):

• An extant trope fits what we're looking for and we just need to clean up the sueprtrope or add to the description of that trope to make the connection more obvious. (Possibly Sadly Mythtaken, Adaptational Villainy or Adaptational Heroism, or Adaptation Deviation?)
• God Villain Upgrade & God Hero Upgrade (they kind of go hand in hand): Gods that were not evil/good but in fictional works they got upgraded to villain/hero status. Distinct from Historical Villain Upgrade & Historical Hero Upgrade due to the Historical tropes concerning RL persons and their personas.
• God Flanderization: Gods who had large or multiple areas of influence are simplified down to one.
• Binary Gods or Black And White Divinity: A binary Good/Evil division when, in the original pantheons, very few gods were entirely Good or entirely Evil but in subsequent adaptations many or all gods are entirely Good or entirely Evil.
• Hollywood Pagan Gods: Various semi-standard ways that Hollywood (and its predecessors, the medieval monks) misinterpret or re-interpret old gods.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

I'd go for God Villain/Hero Upgrade (though I;d call it Mythological Villain Upgrade and Mythological Hero Upgrade) and but also add Hollywood Pagan Gods as a different but related trope for cases where the gods in question are racially different form their mythological context in ways other than morality, such as Is It Wrong To Try To Pick Up Girls In A Dungeon, Fate/stay night and Final Fantasy.

Actually, I haven't made a trope for TLP in a while. If I may, I'd like to request permission to draft the following for the three concepts tomorrow:

• Mythological Villain Upgrade (Characters from myth becomes villains when they werent in their source material)
• Mythological Hero Upgrade (The inverse of the above)
• Hollywood Pagan Gods (again, used to cover unorthodox depictions of mythical characters)

edited 21st Mar '17 11:58:00 PM by MorningStar1337

I would agree on on 'Hollywood Mythology' or whatever, it would also include like the English version of Final Fantasy as well as many other English outlets equating Shiva to the Hindu god. Which is different from the original with it being a Yukionna who's name is a take on Shiver .

edited 22nd Mar '17 12:17:51 AM by Memers

Okay I'll get started with the Hollywood Mythology draft now. (and cover the morality upgrade tropes later)

Here's the TLP draft now I'll get to the morality upgrade drafts later.

Mythological Villain Upgrade draft is up

My 3rd and final draft, Mythological Hero Upgrade is up

edited 22nd Mar '17 2:09:16 PM by MorningStar1337

I cut some of the wicks (to work page stuff) down before realizing that, hey, there might be some use for them with a different trope or one of the new supertropes. So, to document my changes just in case these examples could be used for something else, I'll list the pages here.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

I'm confused about the definition of Sadly Mythcharacterized. I just saw these examples added for Touhou, and I'm not sure how any of them fit:

(EDIT: Folder removed)

This is Adaptation Expansion, not a change in Kaguya's characterization. In both the original story and in Touhou, she wants to stay on Earth. The only thing that changed is that after the end of the story, one of the Lunarians bringing her home betrayed the others and helped her go into hiding.

The lunar civilisation she comes from, on the other hand, has a lot of reinterpretation going on - it's said to be the same place as both Takamagahara and the Dragon Palace, and people are immortal there due to a conflation of the concepts of kegare and Pure Lands.

In Hinduism, Yama is the name of a specific god. In some forms of Buddhism, it's a job with at least ten yamas and an overall supervisor. The Yama of Xanadu, Eiki Shiki, follows the second model.

This is Beethoven Was an Alien Spy.

Hecatia being a "freaky T-shirt weirdo" is more a King of All Cosmos situation, and she presumably didn't dress like that back in ancient times. She also doesn't outrank the yamas so much as she's a powerful being who's been living in the underworld since before they came along (which is just All Myths Are True). And her T-shirt says "WELCOME <3 HELL".

edited 10th Apr '17 11:03:13 AM by Prime32

Umm I can not seem to open that folder.

Are they based a mythical god, demon, etc etc. and not what they should be? Knowing the outfits and such umm Shinto deities?

edited 10th Apr '17 11:02:44 AM by Memers

Removed the folder markup.

I think the Touhou example needs to be cut. Like you said, the game falls really closely with the original myths.

The draft was prematurely launched, so there might be a few examples in there right now that aren't right.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

Right now it seems like the trope counts any deviation to a character, not just on their characterization.

...Maybe that's where Prime 32's confusion stems from? "Characterization = any character trait" vs "Characterization = personality"? Prime 32 thinks the trope plays with the latter when it's actually the former.

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.

I think this part of the discussion could be taken to the crash rescue thread since it was already brought up there and it looks like there's reason to send it back...

edited 10th Apr '17 4:38:01 PM by WaterBlap

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

I just dewicked Everybody Hates Ares (with the help of Ferot_Dreadnaught!). It only has a wick from Everybody Loves Zeus, which I think also needs to be dewicked and cut? I want to mention that here prior to doing it, though.

I noticed that ~Ferot_Dreadnaught was dewicking Everybody Hates Hades. Neither the crowner nor the discussion in this thread talked about cutting Everybody Hates Hades, though? We made a supertrope for that trope called Sadly Mythcharacterized...?

Everybody Hates Ares is now on the cut list.

edited 28th Jun '17 10:02:29 AM by WaterBlap

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

Well I think that was indeed launched. But I don't remember anything about Dewicking Hades.

I thought I was dewiking Everyone Hates Ares. I can fix that if you tell me where I should add back if they haven't been already.

PS, reverted removal of Everyone Hates Hades under Everybody Loves Zeus and removed the last wick for Everyone Hates Ares. I think it can be cut now.

edited 28th Jun '17 10:09:26 AM by Ferot_Dreadnaught

I added Everyone Hates Hades back to Everybody Loves Zeus and Franchise.Wonder Woman, anyplace else I need to fix?

Now that Everyone Hates Ares is officially cutlisted. Can you give me the reasons so I can add them to the Trope Epitaph? (My impression is that it was deemed redundant with Everyone Hates Hades, is that so and/or was there more to it?)

edited 28th Jun '17 10:09:47 AM by Ferot_Dreadnaught

It’s been a while since the trope was cut. Any progress on the supertrope?

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I don't think so. Probably because the option is too vague, anyhow.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Sadly Mythcharacterized was launched. Mythological Villain Upgrade and Mythological Hero Upgrade have stalled. ~Morning Star 1337 could be pinged about this, since they were tackling the new tropes.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

IIRC, someone else prematurely launched Sadly Mythcharacterized. I forgot what happened immediately after, but I think I either brought that up ont he Crash Rescue thread or jumped straight into making an IP thread (or both). I don't think i'm able to handle the other two drafts, so I could put those Up For Grabs for anyone interested in them.

edited 23rd Sep '17 8:53:42 AM by MorningStar1337

What's the rest of what we need to do? Dewick and cut Everybody Loves Zeus? I'm double checking because I don't remember if we ever explicitly said that...

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

Bumping so we can get done with this. Same question about Everybody Loves Zeus.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

Considering that there's only 32 wicks to Everybody Loves Zeus, I would like ask again if it's okay to dewick the page so we can be finished with this TRS thread.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty