Is this an example?

Okay, thanks.

• Ed Edd N Eddy example:

• Karma Houdini: Subverted in the infamous "If It Smells Like An Ed", while walking away laughing after his big scheme against the Eds, he ends up tripping on a Banana skin.

edited 13th Sep '15 12:22:15 PM by JW

That sounds like something on the scale of a shrugworthy offence. Not sure karma is something as expected on a joke level as it is on a crime level. If someone commits a crime in a story, you expect them to be punished somehow. If someone pranks someone, you don't expect it to nearly the same degree.

Also, that example gives no context to what he was supposed to be karmicly owed for.

edited 13th Sep '15 11:27:54 AM by shimaspawn

Edit: Whoops, misread the example.

edited 13th Sep '15 1:13:52 PM by Fighteer

These were added to Zodiac Starforce a few days ago and looking at their respective trope pages I’m not entirely sure the following examples are being used correctly or have enough context. But I just thought I’d check here just to make sure:

• Amazon Brigade: Zodiac Starforce, par for the course for a magical girl team, are composed entirely of young girls.
• The Corruption: The first monster that appears infects Emma with dark energy that causes her to black out and have strange visions,and which Astra says will eventually lead to her death.
• The Dreaded: Cimmeria is dangerous enough that Astra won't risk allowing her access back into our world, even if it means Emma will die.
• Magical Girl Warrior: The Zodiac Starforce prefer brute force attacks with swords and the like.

They seem correct, and have enough context to guess that, but they could stand a little more elaboration. Some more information about what the group is and how they operate would be nice.

I'm torn on whether or not I should continue this topic, given that I'm having the feeling that nothing productive will come out of it at this point.

That said, I have different thing to ask about. Some of the examples of the Great Big Book of Everything (and its subtrope Big Book of War) seem to imply that the trope covers instances where the "of Everything" only applies to within a specific broad field of knowledge (in Big Book of War's case, warfare and the military). Is that proper usage of the trope?

edited 13th Sep '15 10:33:41 PM by MarqFJA

• Doctor Who example

• Nice Guy: For the most part, Ten is a friendly, lovable chap who enjoys the company of his companions.

• Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy example

• Innocently Insensitive: While Billy can be mean, he often never means it deliberately

That's very sparsely written.

I think there are some inconsistencies in those two pages. On one hand, Great Big Book of Everything claims to contain a near-infinite amount of information. On the other, there are Real Life examples. And some errors, like listing wiki sites, which are Omniscient Database if anything. They're not books, anyway.

The main point, however, is that it contains anything the characters will ever want to know (with the mentioned exception). That should also hold true for Big Book of War, if it is a proper subtrope. And judging by the examples, "War" isn't necessarily the topic it covers. I think it probably applies, as long as it does follow that expectation, and that it's treated as being the one and only repository for knowledge you'd ever need in that field.

I also suspect there's a great deal of shoehorning.

Well, for the real life examples, some of them (the wikis particularly) are almost certainly actively trying to become this trope.

Be Kind Rewind example:

• Spiritual Licensee: The closest thing we'll get to a movie based on the Block Blister sketches from The Amanda Show.

Dead or Alive example:

• Nice Gal: Hitomi generally has a friendly personality.

Tom and Jerry example

• Parvum Opus: Even people who enjoyed the Gene Deitch shorts hated "High Steaks".

edited 16th Sep '15 12:28:28 AM by JW

Is this example from Gravity Falls episode "Soos and the Real Girl", found on the recap page for that episode, an example of Getting Crap Past the Radar?

• The restaurant in the episode is named "Hoo-Ha's," which is also a somewhat vulgar nickname for a part of female anatomy.

In short, "Hoo-Ha Owl's Pizzamatronic Jamboree" is the name of a restaurant in the episode, and it's basically a Suck E. Cheese's with an owl as the main character. I had always assumed Hoo-Ha simply referred to the sound an owl makes. To be honest, I've never heard the term hoo-ha used to refer to a part of the female anatomy, and I'm not sure how widely used the term is in that context, or how likely the name was used to intentionally "sneak past the radar". For those reasons, I consider this a "questionable" example, but what would you think?

(Please let me know if you need more context to figure this one out)

edited 18th Sep '15 11:33:57 AM by PacificGreen

~JW: All of those examples could use more explanation of how they fit the trope, not just a statement that they do.

~Pacific Green: Is Gravity Falls a kid-aimed work? If not, there is no way that a censor would stop that reference, which is what's required for GCPTR. Looking at it now that I've provided a link, it seems kid-themed, and "hoo-ha" is definitely a reference to breasts, but it's hard to imagine that being considered censor-worthy even in such a show.

Remember, GCPTR requires that the censors would have stopped the item in question had they noticed it.

edited 18th Sep '15 11:42:51 AM by Fighteer

Be Kind Rewind example: Spiritual Licensee: The closest thing we'll get to a movie based on the Block Blister sketches from The Amanda Show due to the idea of Stylistic Suck movies being sold at a rental store. Dead or Alive example: Nice Gal: Hitomi generally has a friendly personality and generally tends to be very fair in fighting. Tom and Jerry example Parvum Opus: Even people who enjoyed the Gene Deitch shorts hated "High Steaks" due it's mean spirited-ness towards Tom.

~Fighteer: Gravity Falls is on Disney XD, but they have gotten away with things like implied hand gestures (a character even once got called "Mc Suckit").

So, yay or nay for this example?

I would say nay, because there is no evidence that the censors care about eliminating those lines. Remember, a lot of GCPTR gets confused with Parental Bonus.

I can see the Spiritual Licensee passing. For Nice Gal, give an example of nice things that she does. For Parvum Opus, it is necessary that the episode be seen as the worst ever, not just disliked. You have given no evidence for that.

edited 18th Sep '15 12:33:08 PM by Fighteer

I generally hear "hoo-ha" used to refer to female genitalia, not breasts.

That being said, Hoo-Ha also just sounds like generic country cheering, and Hoo-Ha Owl's Pizzamatronic Jamboree is a country-themed Chuck E. Cheese. I don't think it's a deliberate reference to a woman's hoo-ha.

edited 18th Sep '15 3:29:53 PM by TobiasDrake

Is Protagonist-Centered Morality when the story sides with the protagonist when he realized something that the audience sees as immoral?

edited 18th Sep '15 9:36:56 PM by MagBas

Got any specific example?

It's essentially about the dissonance/hypocrisy between how a work considers the hero the definition of Good, and what's seen as morally upright from a more "objective" viewpoint. A clear and typical example is if the hero and the villain do the same thing, but it's Good when the hero does it and bad when the villain does it.

It's a bit of a YMMV trope depending on how you define "good" and "moral". Probably should be marked that like Designated Hero and Designated Villain already are.

Those would be subtropes, if they weren't applicable even when the work acknowledges the greyness of their moral position in the story and treats them as such.

On the other thing, I don't think the censors would've reacted at "Hoo-Ha". Too generic sounding. I also wouldn't say it's much of a vulgar term either, but rather a softer euphemism if anything. Well, as far as I've encountered it, anyway.

Would It Is Pronounced Tro Pay apply to acronyms whose pronunciation may not be quite obvious from how they are spelled? For example, one character pronounces the acronym HADAS as "hah-DAHS", only to be corrected by another character saying that it's properly pronounced as "HAY-dahs".

edited 19th Sep '15 11:58:33 AM by MarqFJA

Probably. Acronyms are words too.

OK.

Different question: I have a US-born Russian American character whose Russian-born father decided to break with his native country's traditional naming conventions by naming her "Carla Katharine Elizavetayevna–Yuriyevna Zakharova" (the father is named Yuriy Zakharov, if you're wondering). "Elizavetayevna" is a matronymic (i.e. the mother is named Elizaveta), and the father not only insisted on giving her second given name and a matronymic when Russian naming conventions have no precedent for such a thing (at least AFAIK), but put the matronymic before the patronymic because he considers the mother's identity to be more important than the father's (and he loves his wife too much to put himself first, anyway).

Does this count as an example of Nom de Mom? And do real-life patronymics and matronymics in general (common in names of Anglo-Saxon, Eastern European and Icelandic origin) count as examples of I Am X, Son of Y?

edited 20th Sep '15 7:44:06 AM by MarqFJA

Three specific examples:

• To some degree in The Dreamstone. Though they get the shorter end of focus in several episodes, the narrative seems to side with the Land of Dreams, who generally treat the Urpneys as Villain Ball Magnets and repel and often sadistically punish them for trying to give them bad dreams (disregarding Zordrak tortures or kills those that don't). The fact the heroes are exceptionally pious about it helps little either. Later episodes at least tone down their retaliations and give them a more genuine provocation, though the Urpneys still aren't really any more willingly villainous than before.

• Supper Smash Bros Mishonh From God is full of this because of Sara's beliefs. Basically, if you're not Christian, heterosexual and conservative (you can't be one or two of those things, you must be all three), you're a villain, even if you show no qualities of being one.

• 300 is full of this, mostly due to the Unreliable Narrator. The Spartans are touted as a just and free society, even though they're shown in the movie to hurl imperfect babies off cliffs, kill messengers, and toss boys into the wilderness as a rite of passage.

All the mentioned examples are awful following out-of-universe morality, but, if i am not mistaken, the stories never treated the acts treated as wrong as wrong- and the protagonists never realized nothing similar to the acts considered wrong.

edited 20th Sep '15 8:57:42 AM by MagBas

I've been trying to work out what trope an example I had in mind would fall under. The only one that I can find that comes close is Badass Bureaucrat, but I'm not sure if it applies as that seems to be more "bureaucrat who is a badass" vs "badass who is also a bureaucrat", which is closer to what I have in mind. Plus they tend to be characters in he shadows/background, where mine is the star of the show. I tried Lost And Found but couldn't work out a good alternative trope, so I'm hoping for another opinion, or possibly a point in the right direction. So if I were to put it into BB, here's how I'd do it.

• In an inverse of the usual "behind the scenes" type, the Thrilling Adventure Hour's Sparks Nevada, Marshal on Mars, is the main character and primary lawman of Mars. He is also shown to be genuinely pleased at the prospect of doing his paperwork, and is adept enough at it he can do things like reduce the Red Plains Rider's sentence to community service (by acting as his deputy) when she became a wanted criminal after having to Shoot the Dog.

Badass Bureaucrat is the closest thing I've found, but it feels too much like a shoehorn.

edited 20th Sep '15 9:28:11 AM by sgamer82