Alright, so in TRS Badass Gay came up for discussion and it was agreed that there appears to big problem with the Badass X tropes in general, which needs to be sorted out until something can be ruled on for Badass Gay.
Here's a courtesy link: TRS page
. And Badass page with its subtropes. You can also visit the sandbox page here.
Noted Problems include:
- Tropes are just listings of characters people thing are badass who happen to have a certain trait. (The Badass + Trait Problem)
- Badass X as a naming scheme is actually very vague and doesn't give a lot of insight into what the character trope actually is, assuming it is a trope.
- Badass X as a naming scheme proliferates the use of Badass + Trait 'tropes'.
Suggested things to do include:
- Make it a requirement that a badass character trope means a character is "badass because of a trait", or "badass in spite of a trait".
- Renaming away from the Badass X naming scheme as much as possible.
- Cut, redefine or re-purpose things that are just Badass + trait.
There are also a lot of tropes that seem to be valid character-types, but have the naming scheme 'Badass X', when there's more to the trope than that. There are also a lot of prop or event or whatever tropes that need to be gone through as well.
Edited by Berrenta on May 15th 2020 at 7:39:14 AM
The Final ECW Champion
Badass should not have any examples, it should just be an index, all the sub pages should be deleted.
Tall is something measurable, fast is, strong is, bad ass is basically "this character did something cool/or I find impressive" they are a bad ass. You wouldn't make a page called "cool" or "awesome" and then claim it was a true story telling device, a trope all its own because it wouldn't be and badass is not.
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
I see the Awesomeness.
It occurs to me that Badass Bystander sounds a lot like Neutral No Longer or possibly that other trope, I think it was Awakening the Sleeping Giant or something?
edited 26th Feb '12 9:27:36 PM by Deboss
Fight smart, not fair.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I agree.
edited 7th Mar '12 9:59:59 AM by Kerrah
It was redirected, not cut. And the word had nothing to do with it. It was redirected for not being a trope.
I see you edited your post, so let's forget that.
Shall we move to the next five?
edited 7th Mar '12 10:01:20 AM by lu127
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Sounds like a plan. And any others we want to send to TRS now? Backlog is bad.
Kinda impossible, since TRS couldn't be any fuller.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
It's always full, though. Just a matter of timing.
The recommended method to get TRS slots is to holler call-able crowners and finish the job in threads who have decided so that they can be locked.
Have we touched on Badass Driver yet? I think that one just needs a rename—"Really good driver" is as much a trope as "really bad driver," but its not a badass trope.
We have, and we decided it must be renamed and removed from index. But this is not something we can do without TRS.
Epic Badass cannot be launched with that name. The name is perfectly accurate and I think the trope is supposed to be applying to characters like Rama, but the word epic has undergone considerable decay. The description could also use tweaking because as written it sounds like "Badass compared to the other badasses" when so far as I know it should really be more like "Impossibly badass and larger than life by virtue of being an epic, classical hero."
The Final ECW Champion
Do we need The Repair Shop to remove all the examples from the page and reduce badass to an index? I think removing examples is something we can do without it.
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
I don't think the policy is to remove all examples from a supertrope unless every example of it would fit on a subtrope. Plus, badass needs to get its own TRS thread since I think that if the definition is just that they can handle themselves in a fight then its description is needlessly lengthy.
And here's another YKTTW I have serious misgivings about.
The Final ECW Champion
I think the problem here is trying to find a concrete definition for a phrase that doesn't have one. Badass doesn't mean "good fighter", "tough guy", "street smart" or "looks cools". It means "impressed me" or "impresses me". You wouldn't argue "cool" is a super trope to Cool Pet or that Horrible is a supertrope to Horrible Camping Trip so why are we trying to give this modifier trope treatment? It is index material, at best.
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
We need to find a concrete definition. We've already decided that it's a character trope and thus, if we ever finish, anything that establishes badassery goes somewhere else.
Remember that Epic Badass YKTTW I linked? I can already see the problems. Too bad I have no time to go over YKTTW.
edited 8th Mar '12 12:48:50 PM by lu127
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerFor the love of god, they spread like wildfire. Badass is such a sinkhole, it's not even funny.
The Final ECW Champion
No we don't, as long as we keep trying to enforce something the outside world will not observe the misuse will continue. What is badass? Someone who can handle themselves in a fight? Really, does handling weaklings make you a badass? What about Ghandi, he was all against fighting, would you really tell anyone who knew anything about him that Ghandi was not a badass with a straight face? Is a badass then someone who is regularly exposed to violence, regardless of whether or not they dish it out in return?
If so, what then of badass driver, many of whom experience no violence what so ever? Does the bus driver who weaves through wreckage in a sandstorm to deliver his passengers safely not qualify for badass? Then is a badass someone who faces danger? Does having no fear make you badass or does going ahead in spite of fear make you badass?
But consider Wrath James White, he was called badass simply for leaving this message in reference to his novels. "If you have a weak stomach, a closed mind, rigid morals, and Victorian sexual ethics, then avoid my writing like the plague. Avoid me as well." That didn't involve danger at all. Hot Chick In A Badass Suit? What, good looking clothing is badass too? That doesn't involve well...
Clearly all of these examples can't fit into a pattern. At the very least all those lacking danger have to be removed or all those lacking confrontation need to be gone. Even then that would leave out one third of the examples but someone has to be wrong right? No, no one is wrong, they are all right. All badass means is impresses, it is just a different way of saying impresses. That is too broad to be a trope as this wiki uses them, therefore there should be no examples, just tropes about something that makes a particular subject impressive or "bad ass". Badass Grandma, fine. Badass Baritone, whatever. Badass Armsfold, sure. Badass Cape, Badass Normal, Badass whatever but there needs to be context. Badass has no context by itself, none that you can get everyone to agree on anyway. By itself it is index material, at best.
edited 8th Mar '12 1:22:49 PM by Cider
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Personally, I do define badass more narrowly than the trope is actually used, but badass is a trope and a supertrope to a load of things like Badass Adorable and Badass Normal. So if it's going to be a high level supertrope, it needs to have a definition that actually fits in all those categories. For example, if you declared that a badass has to have, for example, a stoic no nonsense personality and be all grizzled and whatnot, then Badass Adorable can no longer be a subtrope of it.
In any case, no, Gandhi would not be a badass as we use the word. Nor, in fact, would most people claim he is. They'd say he's awesome or inspiring, but not badass.
Badass Driver is a trope we've decided is not a badass trope. We currently plan to rename it.
Wrath James White is also not a badass as we use the word. Hot Chick In A Badass Suit is another trope we've found issue with, so we're going to need to have a look at it later.
Before I continue arguing with you, can you please check out Badass Tropes to see how we've generally sorted out stuff? Stuff like Badass Longcoat are simply not going to be on the same page as Badass Normal.
edited 8th Mar '12 1:31:44 PM by Arha
The Final ECW Champion
He wouldn't be the first choice if people asked, but if you asked them about the man who got shot and kept peacefully confronting his enemies anyway you'd be hard pressed to find one who says no, he is not in fact badass. And not how we define it? Badass Pacifist says otherwise.
You can't say what is and what is not cool, awesome, sucky, terrible or impressive in the same objective way you can say what is tall, short, strong, long lasting or shiny. Badass is no different. It Sucks is not a trope, it is an index. Badass should not be treated as a trope but as an index.
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Shrug. I disagree, but that's something we can worry about later. For the time being, let's just continue sorting.
- Badass Transplant: When someone becomes a badass via a prosthetic of some kind.
- Badass Unintentional: Didn't plan to be a badass.
- Badbutt: As badass as a kid-friendly show will allow.
- Bald Of Awesome: Who said hair was a requirement to be badass?
- Battle Strip: When clothing is removed for the convenience of the badass in question.
I see the Awesomeness.
Hm, Badass Transplant might work okay as a type of badass. I think Badass Uninentional is essentially trying to be a form of several other tropes so that it can attach the badass name to them, I think it could work as something other than a badass named trope. Badbutt seems okay. Bald Of Awesome might work but the examples need a chainsawing to kill of the physical appearance aspects of it. Battle Strip definitely feels like a Badass trope, as a subvariant of The Gloves Come Off or whatever that trope is.
Fight smart, not fair.
Badass Furry is in TRS.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer