Venezuela and the Chavez Legacy

Chavez will be hard because how controversial he is. If I create the page, it will attract people from both sides: haters, and supporters. Tv Tropes is very strict with this kind of content, but, since Chavez has appeared a lot in fiction (A live action series where he is the dirty protagonist, his parodic self in Isla Presidencial, him appearing on a tv show with a terrible imitation of his voice, you named it), he is remarkable enough to have a page.

I will have to work double-hard to make a decent biography without taking a side (because, as much of a bastard he was, he did things that made the Venezuelans people love him and turn into his personal cult of paws).

Great job on the Dona Barbara page!

Thanks a lot! I put a lot of effort into it! :)

If we're also including non-fiction, don't forget Aló Presidente.

I haven't read Doña Barbara so I couldn't help with that one, but I've spent nights reading news and stuff about Chávez like anybody else so I can help with that one. Here are some tropes:

• The Empire: What he considers the United States to be.
• In Harmony with Nature: He often used environmentalism in campaigns, especially when referring to socialism vs. capitalism. Also when it comes to glorifying self-sufficiency.
• Heart Symbol: The "Chávez heart of the people" slogan and logo, and the "Made in Socialism" tags on products.
• I Love Nuclear Power: Chávez once started a project to use nuclear power, although the idea went under after Fukushima's disaster in Japan.
• Patriotic Fervor: As any politician would.
• Wearing a Flag on Your Head: Chávez once started using a Venezuelan flag themed cap [IIRC during 2006's campaign], although the concept didn't catch on until later in 2012's presidential campaign with a different design used by his opponent.

Some real but implicitly insulting ones, you probably shouldn't include them but there's no way I'm not posting this:

• Conspiracy Theory: Several, see below
• Earthquake Machine: He once claimed (perhaps jokingly) that Haiti's 2010 earthquake was caused by the US.
• The one about martians (we have this one, right?): According to Chávez, there probably used to be life in Mars, but capitalism destroyed it.
• The one about "I am watching you" images: The "Chávez eyes" logo.
• New Media Are Evil: He's lashed out against video games and Twitter, although eventually he started using the second during campaigns.
• Saving the World: One of the objectives in his 2013-2019 government plans.

Pictures/videos are on me, but not now.

(I wonder why it's not a widely known fact that we already have a nuclear reactor.)

edited 25th Sep '17 11:12:22 PM by Stormtroper

Wait, there's more:

• Capitalism Is Bad: Perhaps the biggest part of his political views.
• Corrupt Corporate Executive: The oligarchy/bourgeoisie/imperialists/cliques [cúpulas].
• Democracy Is Bad: Specifically the concept of a modern representative democracy, as opposed to what he calls a "participative and protagonic democracy".
• Happy Dance: Several times, but the most well known occasion being under the rain at the closure of his 2012 presidential campaign.
• Happy Rain: The iconic photos of Chávez solemny smiling under the rain during the closure of his 2012 presidential campaign.
• If I Do Not Return: Chávez' last plea to vote for Maduro in case he didn't recover from his cancer.
• Les Collaborateurs: The opposition, i.e. the "petit-yankees".
• The Merch: Things like the Chávez action figure or the Chávez sticker album.

The contentious ones:

• Briefcase Full of Money: Antonini Wilson's briefcase, a corruption scandal involving the state oil company and a briefcase full of money.
• Deadly Euphemism: Prisoner politicians (political prisoners), "the slums go down" (mass looting), "buenandros" ("good-thugs").
• Hobbes Was Right: One idea that Chávez exploited during his first campaign as president was that the politicians were all corrupt and Venezuela needed a "tough hand to put order", i.e. a militaryman like him.
• The Show Must Go On: Referred to by Chávez during the Amuay Tragedy.

Man, I had forgotten troping was so fun.

Just so you know, when troping political figures you're not allowed to post tropes about their actual views or real life, merely the fictional works they've appeared in, or tropes regarding their IRL appearances in non-news media, due to the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement barring such things for IRL people.

I'm not planning to put tropes on his page, except maybe Large Ham (which is consistently used on his fictional interpretations), but, as a way to start the page, I added this lovely quote:

"It wouldn't be weird if there was a civilization in Mars, but possibly capitalism arrived there, imperialism arrived and life ceased to exist on the planet."

— Hugo Chavez. Seriously.

Hugo Rafael Chavéz Frias (Born July 28, 1954) was the president of Venezuela from 1999 until his death in 2013. A controversial figure, Chavez was the head of a socialist movement who wanted to implement what he called "The Socialism of the twenty one century", which meant helping the poor in Venezuela, and stop the evil of capitalism.

At least, that's the short version. Let's try to expand that.

... And that's what I got. I've been reading a bit his biography, but so far, I stil don't know how to properly expand the article.

I'd include a Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment warning too.

edited 25th Sep '17 11:37:20 PM by M84

Oh. Then I guess I agree with in that it better not include tropes.

At least that means if I keep doing these I don't have to mince words about the not-entirely-contentious ones and I can be as spiteful as I want:

• Cult of Personality: With his own prayer, for extra literal-ness.
• Death Ray: What Chávez and his followers's claims of the US innoculating cancer on presidents is most often interpreted as.
• Dog Food Diet: He loved repeating the bullshit about the poor eating dog food before he came along.
• General Failure: He fought two battles in his life; one against the government he swore to protect, a battle which he lost, and another against unarmed civilians he was meant to protect, a battle which he also lost.
• The Generalissimo: Duh.
• Noble Savage: His pro-aboriginal posturing.
• Secretly Dying: His pretensions that he wasn't dying during his 2012 campaign.
• Repressive, but Efficient: See Hobbes Was Right.

I really don't know what to include that wouldn't be dangerously contentious. I suggest sticking to what fiction portrays him as, although the only one I've seen is Isla Presidencial so I can't help with much there either.

edited 26th Sep '17 5:55:19 PM by Stormtroper

He has been included in a couple of american shows as a drug leader, one which didn't even made an attempt to imitate his voice, is the protagonist of his own series, and has been used in a lot of parodies.

I can't name any show now, I need to read a wikipedia article.

I know what he's been in, I mean that the only one I've personally watched is Isla Presidencial and so what I can add is from there.

edited 26th Sep '17 12:57:40 AM by Stormtroper

I'm looking for a picture for the useful notes page.◊ I'm thinking of this caption: "This is the face of a rich propaganda industry"

Doesn't sound that good, right? I'm working on it.

I'm trying to use a neutral picture that sends the message of the man, but all I found is some really good pictures from a pro-chavista perspective. Let's admit it, the guy knew how to take some photos of himself. Any suggestion? (That doesn't include any picture of him as a baldy with cancer. I have standards)

Try the caption "The face of socialism, for better or worse"

edited 26th Sep '17 7:20:23 AM by M84

Sounds good. I wrote the prelude for the article:

Born in a poor family, Hugo Chàvez became Lieutenant Colonel, and was the leader of a socialist society on the Venezuelan army called "The Bolivarian Revolutionary Movement 200, named after South American liberator Simón Bolívar. Disgusted by the politics of president Carlos Andres Perez, Chàvez lead a coup at the goverment in 1992. While the movement gained notoriety, the coup was quickly put down.

Chávez was allowed to appear on television to explain his actions, and much of the Venezuelan population identified with his ideals. He was sent to prison, but was vindicated on 1993 when Pérez was convicted in a massive corruption scandal. Chávez was pardoned by president Rafael Caldera in 1993 and soon entered politics, much to the latter regret. His society became a legitimate party, the Fifth Republic Movement (MVR) and in 1998 ran for president, winning.

That's the prelude, now let's deal with the complex first act."

What do you think about it?

A couple things:

You may want to change "society" for group or something.

It makes it sound like 4F began as a backlash against CAP, but Chávez had stated that he'd began conspiring since Black Friday, i.e. much earlier (he was inconsistent on this so it may not be true, but it does cast doubt on it). I suggest leaving that part away.

The money involved in the CAP case was actually not that much, it was more of an excuse to get rid of him for all the other stuff. I suggest taking away the word "massive". At any rate the Caracazo and the 'paquetazo' probably deserve a mention.

The pardon was in 1994.

As for pictures, when in doubt, go with Wikipedia◊. The "presidential" one◊ is also okay I think.

Also, look what I found.◊

edited 26th Sep '17 8:13:26 AM by Stormtroper

I'll admit i'm mostly copying what I findon a few english sites, I want to finish the article in order to correct it and add more liberties to the text, so we avoid plagiarism. However, is hard for me to do so, i'm not used to biographies, expecially on controversial figures (that I myself can't stand).

I choose a picture for the article, but It can be changed.

So far, you can read what I have on Tomodachi.

That should be rewritten from scratch actually, copying text and then modifying it is still a bad thing to do.

Well, damn it. I'm going to need some help then.

what about a trope page for el comandante? the colombian series about chavez?

While my mom loves the show, I never bothered to watch it. I noticed a page for El Comandante doesn't exist. I'm not too motivated to create that page since is not something i'm familiar with.

edited 26th Sep '17 9:58:44 AM by Tomodachi

Trust me It's not worth it. The show wasn't really liked in Colombia.

So I took a long nap after the lights went out due to the rain.

I skipped a lot of info, and frankly, it needs more expansion. Here is what I wrote after sleeping:

As president, Chávez encountered challenges both at home and abroad. His efforts to tighten his hold on the state-run oil company in 2002 stirred up controversy and led to numerous protests, and he found himself removed from power briefly in April 2002 by military leaders, led over by Carmona. The protests continued after his return to power, leading to a referendum on whether Chávez should remain president. The referendum vote was held in August 2004, and a majority of voters decided to let Chávez complete his term in office.

During his goverment, Chávez created and expanded many social works for the benefit of the poor population, including special works to teach them how to read and write, to give them a proper education, and special programs to help the ill.

Sounds fair, right? Well, it got worse.

Chávez started to take away the ownership of many private companies, all in the name of the people. Those companies lead over by the state went to bankrumpy without a proper administration, and this caused the economy to grow worse. He also became mora vocal and critical of the United States, who were occupied with the Irak conflict, who he blamed were responsible for the coup against him. He infamously called George W. Bush "the devil" and "Mister Danger, which was the name of a drunk, Evil Colonialist character in Doña Barbara.

Despite this, he was still popular, still ruling over Venezuela for many years, and with an opposition that was, frankly, quite useless against him. During the 2006 presidential elections, he went against a politician named Manuel Rosales, who was infamous for being a malaproper with redundant statements. Just to give you an idea, one of Rosales most famous sayings was: "If they killed me, and i'm dying...", which is quite similar to "People die if they are killed".

Chávez did some other things, like banning violent videogames due to Mercenaries having Venezuela as it setting (and even then, that didn't stop piracy... or the game being normally sold), almost entering in a war with Colombia due to disputes with president Alvaro Uribe Velez, among other things. Is a long story.

Chávez, despite having cancer in 2012, decided to run for president for a third time, and after winning, died, and left his vice president, Nicolas Maduro, to become his succesor. And if everything was already problematic with Chávez, it grew worse with Maduro.

But that's a story for another day.

edited 26th Sep '17 4:29:47 PM by Tomodachi

I'll do it. I'll rewrite that first part. I was going to say I didn't know how to go about the rest and that it would... disturb me? But you're already into it.

Don't. I've found most foreign language info to be godawful, it's how you get stuff like how Chávez nationalized the oil industry, and often the writer tries to twist our politics into something else to favour some narrative they support but has little to do with us. Even English Wikipedia has some awful pages. (AFAIK Spanish Wikipedia is fine)

I've often thought that it's very hard to get a good idea on what's been going on here without at least knowing Spanish.

Sounds mostly good. If you put it into your userpage or somewhere I can edit I will. What I would change is clarifying the Carmona part (it sounds like he's a militaryman who led the Armed Forces into a battle or something), making the part about Manuel Rosales shorter (it looks out of place for an article about a different person), saying more about the opposition's problems (Manuel Rosales is only one of many of our issues), economic policies (not just expropriations), and something that absolutely shouldn't be left out is the Constituent Assembly. Also perhaps something about his conflictive rhetoric. That plus general grammar stuff.

Something that does bother me is that it sounds like he's just another president and not, well, Chávez, but again I have no idea how to go about making this known while still making it suitable for a TVT page.

Edit: Oh yeah, and mentioning that the 2004 referendum wasn't some uncontrovertial thing.

edited 26th Sep '17 5:53:51 PM by Stormtroper

You know It's a shame all of the effort to nationalize the oil industry pre-Chavez was in vain.

When studying what politics to apply. I was amazed by Betancourt's Anti-Imperialist policies. He wanted to make us independent of the internationals and feared for the US seeking to make us overly dependant on them. For all the Chavismo Anti-Imperialist talk we depend more on the US than we ever did before.

I found this Anti-Imperialist Socialism to be pretty badass in fact, but I want my politics to be kind of original and I find it difficult to apply it today. But I will still try for the heck of it.

Hugo Chavez, here it is, I will gladly receive all help.

Also, I didn't knew you couldn't edit someones sandbox... that explains a lot.

Also, about grammar, I usually finish the article and then go to Get Help with English forum, so, yes.