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Sandbox / Undertale Cleanup

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Undertale Cleanup thread here.

A sandbox for cleaning up Undertale. This is where we post any questionable tropes and examples, and why we think they need to be changed or removed. Anyone is allowed to edit this.

For the main pages, problems that need to be fixed are:

  • Trope misuse and contrasting entries.
  • Tropes that apply to only one character, which should be on their respective character sheet.
  • Improper example and quote indentation.
  • Speculative troping (a.k.a. throwing in headcanons and fan theories) / WMG, particularly about characters with more meta aspects.
  • Improper usage of spoilers, whether it's putting them in places where they're not necessary / not needed to understand an example or not putting spoilers in places where it's necessary.
  • Shoehorning - a.k.a. warping a trope's definition to force it to fit.
  • Improper, awkward phrasing, and overly lengthy entries.
  • Audience reactions / YMMV.
  • Alphabetical order.
  • Misuse of tropes in blue text / potholes.

NOTES:

  • All the tropes here should be listed in the correct alphabetic order.
  • UNMARKED SPOILERS. This sandbox assumes that anyone who reads and edits it is familiar with all the plot twists of Undertale.
  • This sandbox also assumes that editors know what is canon and what is Fanon or Word of Dante.
  • The name of the first fallen child is never actually confirmed to be Chara despite the strong implications. This puts some examples in question, though they won't be included here.
  • Likewise, "Chara" and Frisk are both of Ambiguous Gender. This makes gendered tropes questionable.
  • The corrections apply to the examples as they are currently written. For example, "only applies to one character" means that the example only describes one person, not that there are no other instances of this trope.
  • After correcting anything in the main page, please remove the complaint that's listed here, so we can keep better track of our progress.

ANNOUNCEMENT: Now accepting clean up notes for Deltarune.

TROPES THAT APPEAR IN DELTARUNE DO NOT RETROACTIVELY APPLY TO UNDERTALE.

Since this sandbox and the thread now include Deltarune, all the previous notes apply here as well, in addition to the following:

  • Per thread crowner, it has been declared that the trope Ambiguous Gender will not apply to Kris. Therefore, they are considered non-binary, and trope entries are expected to keep this in mind. This is to be maintained unless Word of God states otherwise. Please do not contest the crowner's decision, because there have already been edit wars and extessive discussion regarding the subject.
  • Just because Kris is taking cues from Frisk and the Fallen Human, it does not mean that the same tropes that apply to them also apply to Kris. Please keep speculation out of the page.
  • Deltarune has no direct connection to Undertale. It's not a sequel or a prequel.
  • Tropes that apply to Undertale don't have to apply to Deltarune.
  • Deltarune is released in chapters, which means that information that appears in future chapters may contradict previous trope entries. Keep in mind that we do not have the complete game in our hands and that everything is subject to change because of this.
  • The "Weird Route" is only officially called "the Weird Route". "Snowgrave Route" is a Fan Nickname.

    open/close all folders 

Undertale

    Trope Pages 
Undertale.Tropes A

0-9

No issues present.

A

Undertale.Tropes B

B

No problem here.

Undertale.Tropes C To F

No problem here.

Undertale.Tropes G To N

No problem here.

Undertale.Tropes O To Z

No problem here.

    Character Pages: Major 
Undertale - Main Characters

General Tropes

  • Beware the Silly Ones: Goes into needless detail that can be elaborated in the respective pages/folders.
  • Meaningful Name: This applies for the entire cast, so it should be in the main page. Further detail can be elaborated on each character's section.
  • Only One Name: There are only four characters on top of my head who don't have this (we do NOT count Deltarune), so this can be moved to the main page, and added in each character's section if needed.
  • Parental Abandonment: This also must be removed from her and moved to the respective character sections, as while common, it's not universal in the setting.

Toriel

  • Just Friends: First, the trope is actually averted. Second, since it's an aversion it must be removed.
    • Aversions can't be listed on the trope pages, but I'm pretty sure they can still be listed on work pages.
  • Red Oni, Blue Oni: Neither example really fits.
  • Wakeup Call Boss: Isn't listed on the main page - determine if she should be added or if this should be removed.

Alphys

Undertale - The Human Child

  • Amazing Technicolor Population: Ask on "Is this an example" to confirm if this is legitimate.
  • The Atoner: Since the player is controlling Frisk through the whole thing, isn't this technically YMMV?
  • Brought Down to Badass: This needs to be discussed.
  • Conditioned to Accept Horror: Must be discussed in "Is this an example"
    • Pretty sure this is misuse; the trope the example is describing is It Gets Easier
  • The Corrupter: Needs to be discussed. Does "Chara" think Frisk is the one motivating them to kill? If not, then this trope doesn't apply.
  • Enfant Terrible: Probably needs to be rephrased a bit, as technically the player is in control. However, they're clearly seen as one by the Underground, making this legitimate.
  • Everyone Has Standards: This needs to be discussed a bit.
  • Evil Virtues: That course of action is up to the player - however, it can be moved to the main page as "determination" does qualify as an evil virtue without player input.
  • Eyes Always Shut: Are we sure this isn't simply the artstyle? Though it seems legitimate...
  • Face–Heel Turn: Needs a bit more context.
  • Face Heel Door Slam: First bulletpoint needs to be clarified. Also, are we sure this trope doesn't apply to the player? Frisk is not in control for these options.
  • Jerkass and related tropes: They need to be discussed because of the player's influence on the child.
  • Medium Awareness: Seems legitimate but it also references other characters having it, which should go to their respective pages instead. Also, since game mechanics exist In-Universe, it's unclear if the Child knows they're in a game or it's another In-Universe mechanic like SAVE.
  • Muggles Do It Better: This is not character specific. Move it to the main page.
  • Plot Allergy: Example seems to better fit under Abnormal Allergy... except that Temmies and humans being allergic to each other is a species trait. Probably should check with "Is This An Example".
  • Red Oni, Blue Oni: Second example is completely spoilered out.
    • I don't see how it can be unspoilered. I can't think of a way to rephrase it.
  • Spared, but Not Forgiven: I think this applies mostly to Asriel/Flowey instead of Frisk.
  • Took a Level in Kindness: Something just doesn't sit right... (sorry, I know this isn't a good reason)
  • Villainous Friendship: Technically speculation, since we don't know whether it is Frisk or the player being addressed.

Undertale - Flowey

Flowey himself

  • Big Bad: Is he really the Big Bad of the genocide route? The trope right bellow this one (Big Bad Wannabe) contrasts this.
  • Breaking the Fourth Wall: Does it actually count when those mechanics exist In-Universe? And the Youtube Let's Play thing is more Leaning on the Fourth Wall. He says something vague like "all those people who are too cowardly to do it themselves" instead of specifically mentioning Youtube and Let's Plays.
  • Evil Counterpart: OK, leaving aside that he's being compared to Sans, who reeks of trope misuse...
    • The main bullet point could be left as a sub-point.
    • First sub point doesn't describe how they introduce you to game mechanics - and I don't recall Sans showing you any game mechanics.
    • Attempted to fix second subbullet, though Sans headcanons and Memetic Personality Change may still be present.
    • Last sub point is legitimate, though the spoiler tags may be excessive.
  • Flower Motif: Contradicts the Flower Motif entry on the main page; determine which of them is accurate and cut the other.
  • Hostile Show Takeover: Needs to be discussed in "Is This an Example".
  • Mirror Boss: Not sure if it counts, because the player doesn't have any of the abilities Flowey displays during the boss fight. (You cannot use save states to begin with, you don't have access to any weapons during the fight, etc)
  • Precision F-Strike: Does calling someone stupid (which he does all the time) or telling them that "they're pissing me off" count as this?
  • Unexpected Gameplay Change: Needs a rewrite to describe gameplay more accurately.

Asriel Dreemurr

Characters.Undertale Sans

General question about Sans; should we treat the fact that you fight him on Genocide as a spoiler or not? It occurred to me that a player who goes to this game blind would not know about Sans' boss fight even after a first playthrough - it's near impossible to go to the Genocide route while playing blind. There are several instances in the page where the fight is unspoiled, so I won't point them out yet, but I think there should be some discussion on this.

  • All-Powerful Bystander: While the example is perfectly legitimate - along with the deconstruction - it can be rewritten to be somewhat less spoilerly and lengthy.
  • Alpha Strike: Entry can be merged with Begin with a Finisher - look at the Trope page to see why.
  • Ambiguous Situation: Does this trope really apply to something as minor as whether a character wears a shirt or not? Which btw is of absolutely no importance?
  • And I Must Scream: First example describes something he tries to inflict on the player. Is this valid usage?
  • Aside Glance: The second bullet point could be interpreted as him looking away from Frisk without fully turning his back on them, which is far more likely.
  • Awesomeness by Analysis: The part about the dodging has speculation. Sans never clarifies why he can dodge your attacks - it could be that he asked the obvious, it could also be that he's the only one physically able to do so. The rest of the example is fine.
  • Beleaguered Bureaucrat: Basic requirement for this trope is for the bureaucrat to be obviously displeased with their position and unable to handle the sheer amount of work. Papyrus mentions that Sans is working on a lot of things, but apparently he can manage just fine since "life in the Underground is improving" and there's not a word about his opinion on his workload. Perhaps a different trope would apply better. Hyper-Competent Sidekick or Almighty Janitor may fit better.
  • Beneath the Mask: Entry is legitimate, but I think it comes off as too Anvilicious.
  • Big Brother Instinct: Spoilered section may be overly speculative.
  • Big Brother Worship: Add that Sans is the older brother for this inversion.
  • A Bloody Mess: Example moved here from the main trope list. However, it's ambiguous as to whether there's actually blood and might contradict the example immediately above it, Bloodless Carnage. Potentially replaced by Symbolic Blood?
  • Boss Corridor: That entry is needlessly complicated... And remove the ]] at the end.
  • Break the Cutie: First bullet point can be significantly shorter if we just mentioned the old photo in his lab in which he "looks happy".
  • Brilliant, but Lazy: Last spoiler on the second bullet point needs some grammar fixes.
  • The Cameo: Shouldn't this be moved to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate?
  • Failure Is the Only Option: First example argues with itself by saying that Sans during a Pacifist run might have genuinely Took a Level in Idealism and no longer viewed the world as being destined to reset.
  • Unexpected Gameplay Change: Needs context.
  • Vague Age: Feels iffy. Sans' jobs, the quantum physics books, and his not wearing a striped shirt doesn't track as "deep-voiced kid" for me.
    • I recall Monster Kid openly questioning how old he is, but other than that nothing comes to mind.

Characters.Undertale Papyrus

  • Ambiguously Human: Tells readers to look at the corresponding entry on Sans' page for context.
  • Boisterous Weakling: Needlessly lengthy.
  • Foil: There's no non-spoilered explanation of how he contrasts Sans.
  • Kick the Dog: This is about something the player does to him, and shouldn't be listed on his character page. It should be moved to either Frisk's page or the Anomaly's page.
  • Red Oni, Blue Oni:
    • Bad indentation
    • Needs context for how he's a red oni to Sans
  • Sibling Team: Needs context.
  • Sibling Yin-Yang: Relies on another entry for context

Undertale - Undyne

Undertale - Mettaton

Undertale - Asgore Dreemurr

    Character Pages: Minor, Monsters, and Spoilers 

Undertale - Other Characters

Napstablook

No problems here.

Mad Dummy

No problems here.

Nice Cream Guy

No problems here.

Snowdin Canine Unit

No problems here.

Royal Guards

So Sorry

  • Holiday Mode: Specify the date and time needed to fight him.
  • Mundanger: Relies on example above it for context.

Gerson

Temmie

No problems here.

Bratty and Catty

No problems here.

Burgerpants

No problems here.

Grillby

No problems here.

Monster Kid

Onionsan

Annoying Dog

No problems here.

Undertale - Spoiler Characters

Human SOULs

No problems here.

The Amalgamates

No problems here.

The Anomaly

No problems here.

Dr. W.D. Gaster

  • Ambiguously Evil: Tells you to refer to another entry and doesn't explain why he seems evil.
  • Body Horror: The part about the Mysteryman is pure speculation.
  • The Dreaded: While this is legitimate, maybe it should be moved/combined with Ambiguously Evil?
  • Dummied Out: Problematic all around.
    • We don't know if Toby Fox ever intended to put him properly in the game in the first place, or he was always designed to be lost in the game files.
    • A part of the entry talks about the cut character "grandpa Semi", who while legitimately a cut character, there's no reason for him to be mentioned here. There's also some WMG on this part.
    • While the fun/Fun thing is worth mentioning, the phrasing is awkward, especially since it's clear that enabling the players to find the dude was intentional from the beginning - otherwise there wouldn't be any NPCs talking about how he's "gone".
  • Expy: Once again, we do not know for sure if the Mysteryman is actually him. And are we sure that Toby Fox used Yume Niki as his reference?
  • Ghostly Gape: First of all, we don't even know if the mysteryman is him, and second this is a huge stretch. And why even mention Sans and Papyrus here?
  • Gone Horribly Right: Smells of WMG. Do we actually know if his creation was supposed to be used for time-space shenanigans?
  • Gone Horribly Wrong: ...That seems wrong. And like it would better fit Ironic Death or something.
  • It's a Wonderful Plot: Okay, first of all, the trope description is unclear, and focuses too much on the trope namer... It just sits wrong overall. Sorry for not having a better explanation, but this entry really bugs me.
  • Morally Ambiguous Doctorate: Again, other than a few ominous warnings there's no indication what Gaster's moral compass actually was.
  • Painting the Fourth Wall: This is a redirect for Painting the Medium, and therefore the entry is wrong, because it's all about hacking the game.
  • Production Foreshadowing: Looks legitimate, but... is this the correct page for it?
  • The Professor: The goofy grin is questionable. And since it's a key part of this trope, that makes this example questionable.
  • Wham Line: There is currently a cleanup thread regarding all those tropes and examples.

Gaster Followers and Goners

No problems here

    YMMV page 

YMMV.Undertale

  • Angel/Devil Shipping: A bunch of natter/conversation is inserted into notes that should either be incorporated into the entry or deleted.
  • Fandom Rivalry: Some fandoms are also listed under Friendly Fandoms; figure out which trope they actually apply to and cut the other entry.
  • Gateway Series: Needs additional context
  • Hilarious in Hindsight: The Fallout: New Vegas entry needs to be moved to that game's page, as it came out before Undertale.
  • Player Punch: Bad example indentation and gratuitous spoiler tagging
  • Self-Fanservice: Possible misuse- protagonist example doesn't explain how they're made more attractive instead of just older.
  • Suspiciously Similar Song: Lots of examples here; someone needs to go through and check if they're accurate.
  • That One Boss: Genocide boss example is way too long.
  • Toy Ship: Needs excessive spoiler tagging and speculation about Chara cleaned up, along with grammar fixes in the third example.
  • Unintentionally Sympathetic: Human child example: Is it subverted or not? If it is, cut it- YMMV tropes cannot be played with.

     Shout Out page 
ShoutOut.Undertale

Homestuck

  • Several areas of the underground resemble areas in Homestuck. The ruins resemble Derse, the last corridor Prospit, Snowdin resembles LOFAF, Waterfall resembles LOWAS, and Hotland LOHAC.
    • These just seem like similarities, not intentional references.
  • The high pitched drone in Chara's theme is similar to the one in [S] Descend.
    • Chara doesn't have a canonical theme song, so I'm not sure what song they're referring to; presumably it's "In My Way" (the song that plays during the 'fight' with Monster Kid, which is actually just "Anticipation" slowed down). Either way, calling it an intentional reference seems like a major stretch.

Literature

  • Papyrus is an animated skeleton whose speech text is written in all capital letters, just like Death.
    • Considering how little he has in common with Death personality-wise, I doubt this was an intentional reference as opposed to just being chosen to contrast with how Sans talks.

Mother series

  • Although the Real Knife was named after a rumor caused by some foreshadowing in the demo, it conveniently parallels the Real Bat weapon found at the end of Mother 3. You even find it inside a gift box, which are used in place of treasure chests in the Mother series.
    • The example admits that it isn't an intentional reference
    • I don't think the example admits that. Simply because Toby said something about some discussion people were having about the knife, it doesn't mean that the item was created as a reference to that discussion, especially if it was foreshadowed previously. This example could be plausible.
  • At the end of a Genocide run, Sans takes note of the beautiful day and says "On days like these, kids like you..." and you half expect him to toss out a comment about playing Nintendo games.
    • I have no idea what this means.
    • It sounds like it might be plausible, but as it's now it's so devoid of context that it should be cut, unless a Mother fan gets it and rewrites it to make sense.
  • Papyrus's distinctive "Nyeh heh heh!" laugh could be based on Fassad's "Nwehehehe" laugh from Mother 3.
    • Another entry claims it's based on Skeletor. Which is it?
  • The Fallen Child's theme sounds very similar to Giegue/Giygas' theme from the original MOTHER/Earthbound Beginnings.
  • Similarly, "Once Upon a Time" sounds inspired by "Mother Earth."

Music

  • Attempting to put the Annoying Dog in your item box gives the prompt "The box is aclog with the hair of a dog", possibly referencing the song "Hair of the Dog" by Nazareth. Or possibly the old turn of phrase "hair of the dog that bit you."
    • Major stretch; sometimes a rhyme is just a rhyme.

Videogames

  • With its atmosphere, puzzles, music, and monsters, the True Lab is the closest thing to a Silent Hill dungeon this game will give you.
    • Unlikely to be an intentional reference; plenty of games have spooky labs.
  • Alphys is a nerdy, socially awkward otaku reptile who is also a genius when it comes to stuff such as robots. While possibly unintentional, she is very reminiscent of Francis. Additionally, both games have cutesy spider girls as bosses and the seven Human SOULs are similar to the eight Pure Hearts, right down to sharing colors. They also play a near-identical role in the Photoshop Flowey battle to the Pure Hearts in the Super Dimentio battle.
    • Is there any proof that she was intentionally based on Francis?
  • The illusive W. D. Gaster (or at least the Dummied Out sprite usually assumed to be him) also shares an even closer likeliness with Uboa.
    • Duplicate; Gaster's similarities to Uboa were already mentioned on the page
  • Portal:
    • Both entries seem like reaches to me; I don't think those are intentional references.
  • Hotland, especially the Core segment, could be seen as a Metal Gear Solid reference; the stoic main character traversing a strange mechanical place with the help of an awkward Otaku with a Dark and Troubled Past, especially since the art book reveals that Alphys was originally a male character before Toby changed his mind, making her perhaps an Expy to Otacon. You can even buy a revolver to use as a weapon from Bratty and Catty.
    • Again, seems like a reach and there's no indication that this was an intentional reference.

Touhou

  • Everything up to the entry starting with "Photoshop Flowey's green and yellow heart themes" seems very dubious. These just seem like similarities, not intentional references.
  • Asriel: God of Hyperdeath's design may be inspired by the angel of death Sariel from Highly Responsive to Prayers.
    • Dubious. Didn't another entry claim that Asriel's fight was a reference to a different game entirely?

Western Animation

  • Papyrus gives a "NYEH HEH HEH" laugh, much like Skeletor from Masters of the Universe.
    • Another entry claim his laugh was a reference to a MOTHER character. Which is it?
    • I think a reference to Skeletor's laugh is somewhat plausible, as it's a highly memed sound. To a character from Mother with a different laugh, not so much.

Trivia.Undertale

  • Urban Legend of Zelda:
    • "'Queen Alphys" ending'": Does this really need spoiler tags?
    • "It didn't even take an hour": Add which update this was and rewrite to comply with Examples Are Not Recent.
    • "After the update patch was released": Add which update this was.

VideoGame.Deltarune

General Tropes

  • Anti-Frustration Features, subexample: The boss fights against the King and Berdly give the same result whether they're defeated through violence or ACTing.
    • Unclear how it's anti-frustration. Would having more possible endings to battles frustrate players? Probably not.
  • Anti-Grinding: Not sure if it applies. Gaining XP is for the most part not a part of this game at all. A game having no experience system is not Anti-Grinding. And in the weird route of chapter 2 you're explicitly grinding.
  • Ascended Fanon: Seems way too general for the trope to fit. At most, it could be said that Deltarune follows a Fandom-Specific Plot of Undertale by being a sort-of AU. Also, this entry should be trivia.
  • Because Destiny Says So: Unsure if should apply. None of the characters have a concept of unchanging destiny, unless we count the player as a character, but then we can't trope player thoughts.
  • Bus Crash: Sounds like a shoehorn.
  • Chekhov's Gunman: Seems like a misuse; it raves about Gaster's presence in Undertale and Deltarune, but doesn't seem to explain how the trope applies.
  • Suck E. Cheese's: Needs more context.

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