Yeah I disagree with the entry too. Too many people are dunking on Morgana for no real reason, since this is all part of his character arc. It's NOT that he "can't take what he dishes out", it's that Ryuji was ribbing into him for being useless when he's already feeling as such, while Morgana was very clearly only playfully ribbing Ryuji every time he did
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Always serious, 'cause someone has to be
The entry for The Takases was deleted for seemingly no reason. Does anyone know the reason, as there should be an explanation before edit-back-and-forths.
I can't draw
Somebody in History said to potentially discuss what the 7th Palace Ruler counts as. Some consider them to be a really difficult boss, due to attacks and having five phases. Personally, I considered that Ruler to be an incredibly easy battle to win, despite having been built as being the Big Bad that has a personal reason with most of the party. The five phases are really not that big of a deal because three of those are not against the Ruler themselves, and have no big gimmick that makes them difficult. And the phases where the Ruler is attacked are laughable, too, because beyond having some medium-strong attacks, the Ruler was not difficult to defeat. (And for the sake of explanation, no, I did not abuse the Reaper trick for EXP. I believe I was Level 77 across the party when I battled this Ruler)
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Mm, yeah, being around level 75 does make the Ruler a fair bit more manageable, as compared to being in the high 60s to low 70s which I presume most players would be at. The biggest issue would probably be the sheer length of the fight which can feel incredibly frustrating when a momentary lapse in concentration leads to an untimely game over.
I noticed the lack of other YMMV's relating to the likes of Kamoshida and Shido besides Complete Monster, Moral Event Horizon, and Catharsis Factor. Is this a Flame Bait concern?
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... no? Why would it be?
And seriously, why do you repeatedly make discussion threads just to point out that characters are bad? Seriously, what's the point?
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I guess I'm just one of those wicks that make maintaining the Complete Monster trope worth it, with an all too big axe to grind and no way to make the grind heard.
Catharsis Factor is useless to me, then again I'm just reading on the characters off of the trope pages, I haven't played Persona 5 myself.
...I really should be going to the TV Tropes forums instead
Edited by manhandled
EyepatchRaptor
Alright, since we're obviously all getting quite heated here, I suggest that we all take a second to calm down and talk this out on the discussion page before things get any more out of hand. How about it?
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There have been three edit wars on this page in the past 24 hours. You'll have to be more specific in your opening post.
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EyepatchRaptor
Okay, I don't wanna be "that guy," but... am I the only one who thinks Aruu might be... a little too harsh on Makoto?
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Because he is. Dude's blatantly biased against her.
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Firstly, I am female.
I really am sorry if my entries about Makoto do seem harsh: that definitely wasn't the intention. And admittedly, the one under 'Narm' was.
I came across the discussion about Makoto and her bike on another website & thought it would make an interesting entry. But sorry, I guess I was wrong.
Additionally, I really like Makoto! Her slightly cheesy get up adds to her adorkable nature, in my opinion, but I can see how that is not for everyone.
I will take much more care with any future entries.
Regarding the Woolseyism section, does converting Engrish into legible English really qualify? What qualifies for a Woolseyism? Like the Hawaii example, obviously they couldn't directly translate the scene so they made altered it to be appropriate. That's not a Woolseyism imo, that's the localization team doing their job. Where do we draw the line?
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A Woolseyism is, by definition, a deliberate departure from the original script of the translated story that people agree makes for a superior product compared to a straight transliteration.
I think we should put the Insta-kill skill onto Broken Base, rather than Scrappy Mechanic. I've seen just as many people say that it isn't annoying at all, since it only activates on enemies lower leveled than you and only when you ambush them, as people who've said that it isn't a good skill. Anyone agree?
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I've seen the vast majority of people really hate it. Especially since it punishes you for grinding (as Mementos seems to be made for). However, it might be worth turning the entry into a bit about how the fact that you can't disable skills is a Scrappy Mechanic, since I see Yoshida's later skills also getting some heat.
However, I've seen people argue that you could just as easily not ambush enemies, since Palaces aren't really the best for grinding, and there's no punishment for getting spotted in Mementos. But yeah, not being able to disable the skills could definitely be a Scrappy Mechanic
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Thirding making "being unable to disable skills a Scrappy Mechanic."
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Anyone else think the Broken Base section deserves it's own page? It's getting pretty long
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Personally, no. I don't believe it's long enough yet to warrant its own page.
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I think it is in fact getting a lot bigger. Plus, it does seem like it's because too much of a place for people to put any kind of complaint they might have. Not to a huge extent, but the entries are getting ridiculously long.
Does the "Contested Sequel" entry really belong here? P5 seems far more popular and has a better score on Metacritic than even P 4 Golden does. Seems like if it is contested, it's by a very small amount of people.
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I agree with this.
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IIRC, the Contested Sequel entry was added long before the game actually came out over here and before most people actually had a chance to play the game. I think Even Better Sequel works better for post-release reactions
Edited by Sleep_is_God
I see quite a bit of discussion about the relative merits in the places I discuss this game. There are enough elements of P5 that are debated to warrant a YMMV entry.
... No, that's a serious shoehorn. That game is near-universally considered a worthy successor, and again, every vaguely objective element leads to Even Better Sequel. Your argument isn't even claiming that a significant portion of the fanbase dislikes this game which is the actual trope here.
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That's what I've seen. And remember, when P4 came out a lot of people complained that it's story sucked compared to P3's. It seems like a fair part is just nostalgia. And you have to prove that the people who think P5 aren't as good, are significant. If it's just 10 people echochambering each other, then it's not really contested.
Fair enough. I'm not invested enough to argue this.
Edited by deludedmusings
Ideal and the Real
Would the Phantom Thieves fading out from existence near the end count as a Player Punch? It's only temporary (since it ends up being undone later) but it's still a moment that hurt to witness. When I saw it, I thought I fucked up and got a bad ending.
Would everyone agree that the inability to re-enter Le Blanc after exiting no matter the circumstances and the fact that you can't hang out with any party member when you secure a route to the Treasure and have the ability to send the calling card until after you send the card and beat the boss Scrappy Mechanics?
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Is Ryuji really a Scrappy? He seems very popular on tumblr, at least.
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I was thinking the same thing. It seems more like he's a base breaking character like Makoto and Goro
Edited by OmegaNemesis13
Honestly Ryuji is something of a Nice Guy from what I've seen so far. He yells and swears and teases people, but when tempers rise and shit hits the fan he always has people's back. Case in point, Makoto's kidnapping. Even after they rescue her Ann and Yusuke are bitter about how she acted, but Ryuji immediately forgives her suggests they focus on getting out of their newfound mess. The way that entry is written makes him sound like some unrepentant Jerkass, but it's simply not the case, and I've yet to see any large discussions that unilaterally consider him a Scrappy.
I think people have either (a) gotten really frustrated about the fact that Ryuji, for a "phantom thief," has the subtlety and volume of a jumbo jet and for once that actually has consequences, or (b) take exception to his treatment of Morgana. From what I've seen, though, his detractors conveniently ignore that ALL of the thieves make serious errors in judgement when it comes to their identity (e.g. Makoto completely fails to take danger into account when she puts plans in motion, Ann is a terrible actress, the entire team openly discusses their business in a public walkway and keeps chat logs of their plans!) and gloss over the fact that Morgana is an appalling brat to Ryuji from the very start of the game. From a few non-spoilery comments, I thought Ryuji was a bully picking on poor little Morgana, but once I played the game my sympathy was firmly with Ryuji.
But yes, I agree - Ryuji's basically a Nice Guy with No Indoor Voice who gets bullied by the Team Mascot, and is then vilified when he responds in kind.
Edited by FantiSci
I'd like to apologize for that recently-deleted entry. I'm not yet at the point in the game where that is explained, assuming I didn't somehow miss that part if it was before the end of the first dungeon.
About the Clueless Aesop entry... I don't think it really applies here, at least with Kamoshida. While it is true that Ann's outfit is pretty sexualized, I don't see how it makes it the same as what Kamoshida was doing. After all, just fantasizing about something is far different than outright sexually abusing someone. What Kamoshida was doing is far worse than just ogling a girl's Cleavage Window, after all. This also ignores that Kamoshida had been doing other horrible things to students because he thought he was better than everyone at the school, which he saw as "his castle". It's not just limited to women in that regard, since he's also abusing others. It's just that Shiho's implied rape at his hands was the final straw.
As for the gay joke comparison, I don't think it was meant to be an attack directly against gay people, but rather showing the guys of the party how their behavior at the beach makes them come across. I certainly don't believe it's something that needed to be there, at least like this.
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Clueless Aesop isn't YMMV so it shouldn't have an entry here.
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EyepatchRaptor
Why was Goro changed to 'Akechi'? Can we turn it back?
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He's labelled as Akechi in the English release, but his name is still in the same order Western-style (Goro Akechi over Akechi Goro). I don't know who changed his name order but just calling him by his last name isn't a huge deal.
It's not really a huge deal, but I do think it was an overall unnecessary change. Apparently it's simply to do with the Last-Name Basis that everyone has with him.
Edited by OmegaNemesis13
This is being edit-warred over. Hash it out here.
- Fan-Preferred Couple:
- Interestingly, though the player can romance Anne, some fans prefer to see her with Ryuji due to their Like an Old Married Couple tendencies.
- As for the Protagonist himself, Makoto Niijima seems to be the most popular of his possible partners when it comes to het pairings, likely due to her status as an Ensemble Dark Horse and the game itself putting them in several scenes where they're mistaken for a couple. Perhaps the biggest factor of the pairing however is a scene in the Pyramid Dungeon where Joker dives to push Makoto out of the way of a falling pillar, resulting in him landing on top of her and the two do nothing but stare at each other for a few seconds. A scene they made sure to include in Makoto's TV commercial.
The examples seem like they'd count, but the number of weasel words in there worry me. It's supposed to be Fan-Preferred Couple, not "Couple that Some Fans Prefer" or "Seems to be the Most Popular Possible Het Pairing."
Haven't played the game yet, so I don't know how the fandom feels, though the reasoning sounds solid.
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Seems like pretty typical YMMV language to me but rewording couldn't hurt. Personally, I've been following fan discussions and those two and the examples seem accurate to the general ship discussions.
I can say as some one who played through the game I didn't notice anything with Anne and Ryuji that stood out and as for Makoto and and the MC despite what the commercial showed, she really didn't have any more moments than any other girl. As for who everyone is romancing in Japan from what I see Sensei is top and either Tae or Anne are next, to get a accurate western reading you may have to wait for the game to come out few people played the game here and fewer understand it.
Not sure if this topic is still alive but found this https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/641809-persona-5/74441785?results=1#1
, which kinda goes against the above statements.
Is there any time when we can remove the lock? The Edit War has cooled down and when the localization comes out in a couple of months I kinda think people will want to edit the page once again.
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I wholeheartedly agree. I've put in a request on the locked pages forum. Though I've yet to see a response.
Eat bread, make sandwiches, know what I'm saying?
Seriously, as we get closer and closer to the localizations release date, I'm pretty this'll have to happen.
I don't want to change them without asking, since I may be biased because I really like Morgana and Ryuji had been losing sympathy points for me for some of his comments/behavior towards the girls, but don't some of the entries seem rather harsh on Morgana? Designated Hero and Designated Monkey in particular. It's fair to mention that Morgana keeps hassling Ryuji, though it always seemed like Ryuji wasn't actually bothered by them while Morgana was. Sure, you shouldn't dish our what you can't take yourself, but you also shouldn't keep going if you're hurting your teammate. Plus it wasn't a sudden "Ryuji was a jerk to me once, I'm leaving!"; Morgana had been feeling like he didn't belong for a while, the confrontation with Ryuji was just the final straw. I'm also unsure about the "manipulates Haru" part; to me, it felt more like Morgana probably explained what was going on, as she had no experience with the Metaverse and was probably very confused, and Haru wanted to change her father's heart once she heard that that was a possibility. It didn't read as petty spite to me either, more like him trying to prove that he can do things, that he's not useless, but that may be an issue of projecting here.
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