Someone on the thread I linked wanted me to being this back here, so I will. To repeat what I said on that thread, as can be seen here,
here, here, and here, plenty of people hate Severa more than the game's main antagonists. And the top comment on this video says (paraphrasing) "Unpopular opinion, but I like Severa." which is a fan of her acknowledging she has plenty of haters. All popularity polls do is make the characters' fans visible—they don't make the haters visible. Example: Charizard tops popularity polls daily, but it still has a massive hatedom.
The description for Jerks Are Worse Than Villains clearly explains why people would hate Severa more than the villains—jerks are more likely to remind people of assholes they met in real life than the villains—and every single example on the page backs up why an Alpha Bitch would be hated more than fascist kings and a death cult. I have provided my arguments and evidence for my case, now let's hear yours. And I want to hear better than "I disagree" and "your evidence is insufficient."
Also, YMMV is about what a significant number of people think—enough to be noticeable for us to document—not what the majority of the fanbase thinks.
Edited by Kevjro7
I'm having a little trouble processing this entry:
- Guide Dang It: Two recruitable characters, Gaius and Tharja, first show up as enemies. Their monologue indicates that they're not entirely antagonistic, but they'll still attack you. To recruit them, you must talk to them specifically with Chrom. If you think just sparing them or Defeat Means Friendship is the solution, they're permanently missed.
Is this not Recruiting Red Units 101? Why is this, specifically, on this page? Was there something I missed in Awakening that made it more obscure than in other games? And is there nothing else in the game that fits the Guide Dang It! entry more? I barely remember the experience, and I'm fairly sure there's got to be at least one Paralogue recruitment that was actually confusing (like, I believe, Gangrel).
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I feel that this example is more to do with new players, as Awakening's tutorial does not actually mention that you can recruit units from the enemy's side, and if the player has never played a Fire Emblem game before, then they'll have no idea it's something that can be done. That certainly tripped me up on my first time playing. It is confusing why the likes of Gangrel's paralogue aren't on here, though.
Spanish troper writing in English
How come Fire Emblem Fates has a Fan Preferred Couple page describing the most popular pairings but Awakening doesn't?
Either Awakening should have its own page, or the Fates page should be erased, and only mention those popular ships which are not possible in-game.
I think the former would be the best option. Both because it gives more information and... well... because it's funnier. :P Although maybe Fan-Preferred Couple is the wrong trope here... Maybe One True Pairing would be more fitting, since it includes canon ships? (Albeit you can argue that would reduce all pairings to one per two characters?)
I remove some entries i Broken Base that were clearly one-sided.
- Some fans' feelings towards Marth and the Archanea series can basically be summed up in the following entry to Fire-Emblem-Confessions:
"If the next Fire Emblem is about Marth or his spawn yet again, I’ma chop off a tree in anger because I’m tired of him and his story."
- The critical quotes have resulted in this; the main complaint is that they clash with most of the characters' personalities (an especially jarring example is Ricken enthusiastically yelling "Die!"). Of note is that this applies exclusively to the localized version; the original Japanese version had significantly toned down and plainer sounding quotes.
- Not unrelated to the above, a certain scene at the end of chapter 14 isn't looked upon too fondly by some. More specifically, the end result of battle at sea against Valm. In it, the Avatar pulls a trap on the opposing forces and burns their entire fleet. Chrom, Lissa, and the rest of the group proceed to look on in awe. The main thing that is objected about this scene is that thousands of soldiers were burned to death and nobody gave a second thought. In Radiant Dawn, Micaiah pulled a similiar trick where she trapped and burned a large group of enemies to death. Not only was she horrified and ashamed that she had to do it, but she also got called out on it by all sides, her own troops included.
- Though most critics will agree that the characters are deeper than they first appear if the right supports are delved into, most fans will agree that the writing tends to overemphasize one or two traits/"gimmicks" of any given character for comedic purposes.
- Some fans' feelings towards Marth and the Archanea series can basically be summed up in the following entry to Fire-Emblem-Confessions:
Can someone elaborate if there's another side of the arguments? Also if every fans agree that "the writing tends to overemphasize one or two traits/"gimmicks" of any given character for comedic purposes", then it's not a Broken Base.
Under “Broken Base”, it's said how some feel the localized confessions sound nothing like real ones, and then uses a comparison between Laurent's original and localized confessions. However, is that really a good example? Sure, his localized one is strange, but his original one isn't much better sounding if you ask me.
Edited by DoctorFlygon remind me to stop forgetting the preview option is a thing and to utilize it
This is under "Stop Having Fun" Guys: "Admitting you play Casual Mode to "hardcore" FE fans is bound to start some trouble, even if you play it exactly as if it was Classic mode."
This sounds incredibly pointless.
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You mean the act of playing casual mode as classic mode? I thought it was weird too. I suppose everything after some trouble should be deleted.
RE: This entry under Broken Base-
- Really, the game as a whole. Some of the fanbase dislike it because it feels like a large step back in depth and story, while others enjoy the romance aspects and minmaxing.
As I said in the edit reason, there are plenty of people who think Awakening is an improvement over its predecessors gameplay-wise. In the interest of portraying the other side fairly, I propose the following-
- The game as a whole. Some of the fanbase dislike it because it feels like a step back in depth and story with too much focus on romance and min-maxing, while others think the gameplay has improved with some new wrinkles to the strategy and the story and characters match that of its predecessors'.
How's that?
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That works.
I think the line should make mention of some fans criticizing the characters as well as making note of the bringing back of various features from previous games that some fans think have been improved this time.
I think characters would be covered under story and previous features under improved gameplay. I want to keep this as succinct as I can. I'll see if there are any other comments before I send this out.
I think the YMMV part takes a side too much and there's alot of Complaining About Complaining.
True, fans like that are annoying but they shouldn't be focused on so much.
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I agree, but I honestly feel it's a bit of a losing battle until some of the popularity of the fandom dies down. Too many people in and out and making huge edits. I definitely agree that the biggest issue with this page is Complaining About Complaining.
I decided to delete some of the most extreme of it.
New complaints about the fandom will have to be sourced.
Mm...I agree something should be done, but I don't think unilaterally deciding they have to be without any discussion and without any basis in the rules is entirely justified. It's difficult to source things from fandom anyway, since you'll find "sources" of just about any opinion on the internet, and YMMV is about opinions.
Also, citations are not required for YMMV items. And complaining or no, YMMV tabs are for documenting opinions, so they should not just be deleted.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Uh, Helterskelter, PLEASE stop deleting anything denouncing the Sumia bashing in the YMMV section. It can be very easily seen less like a "clean-up" and more like you using clean up" as an excuse to push anti-Sumia bias on the YMMV page, then reacting... badly when others don't buy it.
Because really, whoa, you have deleted *almost every pro-Sumia comment/paragraph* there. That's a bit too much, to say it politely, and it reminds me of character/pairing haters who can't stand even seeing other people disagree with them.
Edited by 200.30.218.64 Hide / Show Replies
No, I didn't delete every pro-Sumia comment, I deleted every "anti-anti"-Sumia comment. There's a big difference. Don't use YMMV pages to wage battles against fans you don't like, against opinions you don't like. If you'd like to address that element of fandom, please take a more neutral POV, as there are people on the wiki who share those negative viewpoints (and no, I'm not one of them), and you'll end up with a messy, contradictory, and edit warring page about it.
The problem with the page is that a large part of it is—was—devoted entirely to protecting Sumia. I don't really care about her character one way or the other. However, the state of this YMMV is absolutely appalling.
Which is kind of why the comments that reference anti-Sumia stayed—because there's a stronger contingent of pro-Sumia fans, they were correctly neutralized either from the get-go or later by a fan to reference the state of fandom and opinion without being angrily biased against her.
I'll also point out that YMMV tends to aggregate more negative tropes than positive ones, so you will overall see more negative tropes associated with characters you like than positive ones.
PaperMaster
Alright, looks like we have an Edit War over this:
- Irony: Despite all the hate for the pairing, Chrom/Sumia is actually the best pairing for Lucina out of the non-Avatar ones, with Chrom/Olivia a close second. This is because of Sumia!Lucina's ridiculous skillpool, having skills and classes that allow for many different builds, allowing her to fill just about any spot in the army that you need, whether it be a physical attacker, a magic user, a support unit, or a tanky unit, or more than one role, and being more likely to start with good stats for her level in comparison to Olivia!Lucina, who makes for one of the better physical attackers and nothing more, and will likely have worse bases than anyone else if you didn't grind Olivia.
Settle it here, please.
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I spoke with the guy who deleted it. He believes Olivia!Sumia is better mostly because of Apotheosis, ignoring that there's other stuff, including postgame stuff, besides Apotheosis in the game. The entry was not just for Apotheosis, and it's not like Sumia!Lucina's skillpool won't allow her to kick ass there anyways.
Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
I spoke with the guy who deleted it. He believes Olivia!Sumia is better mostly because of Apotheosis, ignoring that there's other stuff, including postgame stuff, besides Apotheosis in the game. The entry was not just for Apotheosis, and it's not like Sumia!Lucina's skillpool won't allow her to kick ass there anyways.
Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Its EXTREMELY easy to kick ass in Apotheosis, so thats not saying much
It should be noted that Olivia Dance Abuse allow Sumia!Lucina to get outdone by Olivia!Lucina, even more so with Second Seals, although by how much LAREGELY depend on how much of unit that you used in the team.
Apotheosis can be done with non-optimized children anyways, so it's not like that means much.
Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Apotheosis can be done with non-optimized children anyways, so it's not like that means much.
Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!
Whether or not Olivia is a better mom for Lucina or not is, to this day, a debated issue. I don't feel the claim that Sumia is a better should be made as an absolute fact, especially not to the extremely gushy extent that it's being argued.
I'm doing a clean-up, and I'll leave it because it's up here, but honestly, how is this irony. I'm not contesting her role as mother to Lucina, I'm contesting the idea that this has anything to do with irony. Not everyone plays for stats. Not to mention, the example even says that there's one other pairing that's better—MU.
Uh, on Ensemble Darkhorse, the fourth bullet was changed to Owain. Wasn't it originally Inigo?
While I am not up to date with popularity polls, I cannot fathom why you would think people hate Severa more than the Grimleal and Gangrel, the latter of which commits a pretty heinous act in the first part.
"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain Hide / Show Replies