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Why the uchiha clan isnt on the character page?
Why there isnt a page of the uchiha clan?
Naruto's suffering vs. Sasuke's suffering
From headscratcher page:
Let me preface this by saying that I adore both Sasuke and Naruto and if the series doesn't end with Naruto becoming Hokage with Sasuke back in Konoha and dealing with his issues, I'll be very upset no matter how unlikely this seems.
Personally, I don't see why it matters who suffered more or if you can even really objectively judge since they're so different. They both went through horrible, terrible experiences no one should have to go through.
I think Sasuke wouldn't be satisfied that ANYONE knew what he was going through unless they suffered through the exact same situation where their clan helped found a village, was oppressed since the start (according to Madara, at any rate), their clan plotted a coup, their beloved older brother killed everyone but him and told him it was because he could, got tortured, and then after giving up everything in the pursuit of vengeance finally achieved it and learned a version of the story that is probably closer to what really happened. And honestly, that's kind of a tall order. Sasuke is NEVER going to get anybody to understand what he's going through if he has such high standards. Nobody will ever be able to understand what anybody else is going through if they have to conform to it exactly like Sasuke apparently expects.
I don't think that Naruto is trying to claim that he knows exactly what Sasuke went through, just that they both suffered greatly and have some shared feelings and he's trying to understand.
As for Naruto being better off because he has precious people growing up while Sasuke didn't after the massacre...yes, obviously that made a great deal of difference in Naruto's life. Just the same, it's important to note that Naruto never stopped trying to make friends with people and Sasuke shunned everyone because he was worried he might give into the temptation about the Mangekyou Sharingan and because he didn't want to be distracted from his ultimate goal of vengeance. Maybe Sasuke wouldn't have found anyone if he tried but I think that if the single most hated person in Konoha can find a few precious people (only the Sandaime cared about him because of his parents) then so can someone significantly less hated. I'm sure Sasuke would have realized if he was being hated growing up, after all. Even Naruto picked up on it.
Naruto responded to his suffering by trying to improve his life and move past it and Sasuke refused to do so and didn't want the hurt or anger to go away. He clung to revenge while Naruto ultimately rejected it (yes, after almost releasing the Kyuubi and doing more damage than Sasuke has yet done). If Sasuke suffered more because he chose not to seek out any other precious people once his clan died then it is the result of his own choices. Saying that it doesn't count that Sasuke had people who liked him because he didn't care about them is kind of flimsy. It was an opportunity he chose not to take.
I think that Sasuke is absolutely a traitor. It doesn't matter that he didn't feel any personal loyalty to Konoha. If people weren't traitors because they didn't care that they were betraying whoever they were betraying, there would be very few traitors. Sasuke was an active-duty ninja of Konoha and as such was not allowed to run away from Konoha to go live with one of Konoha's enemies who had just killed their Hokage to boot. He was most certainly not allowed to try to destroy Konoha. Doing this as a Konoha citizen, let alone a ninja sworn to protect it, is treason. That makes him a traitor. It doesn't mean he's not capable of loyalty to his clan, just that he is a traitor to Konoha.
Konoha may be a military village but most of its citizens are, in fact, just citizens and are innocent of what the ninja get up to. Wanting to kill every single citizen of Konoha because the government of Konoha may or may not have oppressed them (like Madara wouldn't have told Sasuke this same story even if what really happened was Fugaku getting power-hungry and wanting to be Hokage himself) and so four top government leaders (two of which are already dead) ordered Itachi to kill his clan is not in any way justified and it never will be. If Sasuke chooses to kill the two elders who played a part in his family's death then I say all the power to him. That might even be justified. Wanting to kill hundreds if not thousands of innocent civilians for the secret actions of their government is monstrous and will make the death of the Uchiha as well as Itachi's sacrifice completely pointless.
Sasuke's actions regarding his family's memory really shouldn't be compared to Naruto's actions regarding his friends, I don't think. Sasuke wants to make everyone's death pointless by spreading the misery and killing more people. That is not protecting anyone. His precious people are all dead and nothing will ever bring them back. No innocent person deserves to die because Sasuke wants to feel like other people have suffered like he's suffered. Naruto doesn't try to justify the killing of innocent people in anyone's memory, he works to protect those that are still alive.
To Sarah: Thank.You. you proved my point, you can like a character but you don't have to agree with them and excuse everything they do. To Mr. Psychologist: I'm actually disappointed in you, I expected a better replying argument, I was gonna point out how the whole minimizing Naruto's suffering (and mentioning things he didn't had until now, seriously he has his "parent's spirit support" just now, he's literally only known for a few hours) and exaggerating Sasuke's (by mentioning things he didn't know until now) among a LOT other things (ok more like almost everything if not everything you said) but I think Sarah1281 Curb Stomped you there enough with a very reasonable argument.
To marcellX: The problem is that you pretty much did the same as Mr. Psychologist. You tried to minimize Sasuke's suffering and exaggerate Naruto's. I'm sorry, but the fact that Sasuke went to Orochimaru will always be understandable to me and that he wants to kill everyone in Konoha too. I don't say that it's justified I just say that it's understandable for him to act like this.
To Sarah: It's refreshing for me to see an opinion about Sasuke that isn't "he's so pretty kawai desu" or "emo-duck fag go die". I agree with you. Except for the "Sasuke went into revenge while Naruto rejected it" thing. As I have said before Naruto has no reason whatsoever to take revenge on anyone. Or should he kill people, because they ignored him or looked at him angrily? And if you mean Nagato then I'd say that the circumstances were totally different than Sasuke's. I never said that Sasuke's actions are justified I just said they're understandable.
And to Mr. Psychologist: I'm sorry, but trying to justify that Sasuke wanted to murder Killerbee and wants to kill everyone in Konoha pushes you a little in the  section.
I didn't try to diminish Sasuke's suffering, but one thing is trying and another is succeeding, so I apologize if it came out that way Kay. But I agree with Sarah when she said "Sasuke went into revenge while Naruto rejected it" because Naruto did had reasons to want revenge, in fact in the waterfall his doppelganger said he really hated most people in the village and knew they were being hypocrites, in fact he did wanted revenge on them at some point. After all he's a Jinchuriki, and everyone except those in the Cloud Village last generation have falling into that.
At one point you said that Naruto had to go through more than Sasuke and that's simply not true. Sasuke's whole family was slaughtered when he was eight years old and he had to see it for three days. Naruto was ignored and got hateful glares, but he still had Iruka, the Third Hokage and the ANBU for protection. I think Sasuke had a much better reason to want revenge. And (well, at least for me) it makes you a little ignorant that you claimed Sasuke had it better because he had shallow fangirls and pity from the adults (I didn't see anyone feeling sorry for him anyway).
Well I don't remember blatantly saying Naruto had to go through more than Sasuke, and I don't feel like reading all that I wrote now, so if I did I apologize and would like to say that I don't really think that. However this discussion is about the things they had to deal with, specially the first 12 years (more in those 5 years from the Uchiha massacre to when they became Genin), and in those years Iruka was still just a teacher to Naruto and he had no idea the Third Hokage had a?n eye on him (and there's no evidence about the ANBU, which is another complain people have about the carelessness with basically an atomic human bomb). Another thing is that I didn't said Sasuke had it better, just that how Naruto went to have a more father son/big bro little relationship with him, Sasuke had something too, peoples acknowledgment and admiration (even from grownups and teachers) and was popular at school, so he had the possibilities or forming bonds with other people like Sarah pointed out. Bottom line is, at least the way I see it, Kishimoto tried to make Naruto and Sasuke have the rivals Story with different outcomes, like Knives and Vash from Trigun, and a number of other examples.
ps. Thanks everyone for this wonderful interesting devate...except you Mr. Psychologist, we're a little freaked out with your level of Dracoin Leather Pants.
You said that Naruto didn't become a backstabber even though he went through more than Sasuke. That seems pretty blatant to me. And I say it again... Naruto always wanted friends, acknowledgement and admiration, but Sasuke only cared about revenge and didn't want to form bonds. He always wanted to avenge the murder of his clan and didn't want to be pitied or admired. And the Trigun example isn't a good one, because Vash and Knives went through the same while Naruto and Sasuke didn't. Anyway it's nice to discuss the topic of Sasuke with someone who isn't part of his large and often facepalm inducing Hate Dumb or his equally facepalm inducing fangirls and fanboys.
Ps. Yes Mr. Psychologist, trying to justify Sasuke's behavior is a bit much. His actions are understandable, but not justified.
In your third text. Right at the beginning.
I see, my bad then.
To kay4today: Naruto didn't have anyone specific he wanted to turn his revenge on, just the people who just glaring at him all his life. He said it himself how much he hated them back until Iruka finally acknowledged him and Dark Naruto said how it irked him in a way that mass of people in Konoha were suddenly his best friends when they treated him like crap for years. But yeah, like Sarah said, he moved passed that once he found someone.
Also, though I agree with Sarah that both went through horrific experiences that no one should have to go through, I think people are underestimating Naruto's loneliness. Sasuke being mindraped and had his family killed in front of him seems obviously worse at face value, but this was an instant event that was over in a matter of hours. It'll haunt him for the rest of his life, but it ended there and it was all uphill from there until Itachi came back to town. Meanwhile, Naruto was constantly put down for 12 years. Until Iruka started paying attention to him, it's all he ever knew. Not once in all that time has anyone ever been there to tell him not to pay attention to those people, that what they say doesn't matter. I wonder whether anybody even touched him or took care of him when he was hurt or sick. Just look at how many gay people commit suicide because they aren't accepted by their peers within their 4 years of high school. Naruto had to take that without even knowing what was wrong with him for 12 years. He had never known a moment otherwise from birth. I don't say all this to downsize what Sasuke went through, because it was an incredibly traumatizing experience, but some people are acting as if what Naruto went through was nothing compared to what he did, and I honestly don't think that's true. If one is more so than the other, I honestly don't know which.
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