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- Values Dissonance:
- The view on the protagonist differs greatly between East and West, and this is one of the main reasons of Fan Myopia regarding popularity polls mentioned above. In Persona, the (silent) protagonists are designed as a Self-Insert, but this term alone differs greatly between the two regions. The Eastern fans simply see it as a way to role play as a defined hero like any other typical JRPG, with how they pick the dialogue choices and progress through gameplay or schedule being a reflection of these players. Since the point of these games is to experience the hero's journey, it is unsurprising that the protagonists tend to land first place in popularity in Japan and SEA. Meanwhile, the Western fans are divided on this idea, and consider a Self-Insert being a fully-defined character by the player, often bringing up character creators and even more personal projection. The protagonists having particular personality traits despite being a vessel for the players is often stated by these fans to be an indecisive direction and would rather just have a fully standalone character instead of as a player stand-in. So it is no wonder they have stronger preference for the supporting cast, whose character writing, compared to the "plain" protagonist, appeals more to the Western fanbase.
- Poor Katsura Hashino has gotten the Americans Hate Tingle treatment from the Western progressives thanks to some interview points becoming mainstream knowledge and the majority of that side of the fanbase hates the explanation. For example, take the reason why a female protagonist is not possible in Persona 4. The Western fanbase considers his reason to be moronic and can not even be justified compared to Persona 5 (a female Joker would not work with how the accusation background played out). In Asian countries, moving from urban to rural (or vise versa) is typically associated with males bettering their life in another place, either through school or work, as a sign of growing independence. Though some points sound questionable regardless, like how he views friendships between boys and girls (thus the male MC's Social Links in 3), this falls more on Write What You Know than outright malice. The less said about sexualities, the better. Add classic Fan Myopia and the fandom's desire to force Western views into other cultures, and it makes a frustrating cross-cultural discourse.
- "mentioned above" is an illegal cross-example reference.
- The first example is a general "Heroic Mime have little personality" discourse and isn't limited to Persona series, which I've only seen complains about the game's version of Yu Narukami.
- "Western progressives", "fanbase hates the explanation", and "force Western views" to me sound like a not even subtle insults. I also fail to see any specific points what the dissonance is aside "making female MC is hard, except in P3".
definitely very charged, if not an outright red flag imo.
Stan GaruKaru for clear skin
Going to delete these entries then.
i hope no one minds me bumping this, but they also added this sub-bullet onto YMMV.Persona, which is complainy at best and just as inflammatory as their "western progressives" edits at worst:
- There is also infighting with the modding community since the mods for the PC ports have become abundant. Game Mods in general are subject to Sturgeon's Law, which is a different debate entirely, but what really caused this is a certain selection of mods that are perceived as virtue-signalling despite being, well, mods that players have to search and install themselves. For example, a Persona 4 Golden mod to remove all "cringy" events (school festival, hot spring, etc.) has managed to rile up fans that do not mind or even enjoy the scenes, accusing the modder of making the game unfun just to fulfil the needs of a Vocal Minority. The ever-snarky modding community, meanwhile, mocks these fans in the community's own comfort, seeing said fans as degenerates that see these controversial Japanese tropes as normal.
It's an overly-complainy example for sure, and it probably shouldn't even be on Persona's YMMV page to begin with because it's entirely about fan works, not the games themselves.
And it's... dubious. Like, I'm betting 99% of Persona fans don't care one way or the other, and while I'm sure there's a set of fans upset with other playing "wrong" I find it difficult to believe anything more than a negligible sliver of the fandom will care about what mods do.
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Well, the Persona 4 mod did spark a hot debate
(Niche Gamer), but again it's for never-to-be mod page and not for Persona 4's page.
"Hot debate" sounds... generous. Even taking that article at face value, assuming it's characterizing 100% of the PC Persona-playing crowd (which is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of Persona players), there doesn't sound like much arguing going on there.
... and then you look at what few links are actually included and it's really tough not to believe this isn't the tiniest of molehills.
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tossed the entry citing this query.
Stan GaruKaru for clear skin
The edit on the Values Dissonance section of the Persona page done by user Key Wii J feels like an attempt to assert a biased opinion and feels like it's framed in a very inflammatory way - especially the statement regarding the so-called "Western Progressives", which seems a bit off to me. Anyone else think this?
Edited by Makir