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Edited by PurpleEyedGuma
Paging ~MaLady.
^ Pages don't work on ATT, and I don't see much point to calling them over here since it's not like they haven't been told about these issues on the TLP drafts themselves...
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
While the bombing button is there for a reason and seems to do its job, these can probably count as "Blanks, One-Line Wonders, and Other Zero-Effort Drafts" from TLP Guidelines.
If it's a consistent issue maybe the trope ideas and drafts should be reviewed by Broad Ideas forum thread, one-by-one, before going to TLP, the last one even started with no examples (I've heard 3+ are needed?).
Edited by Amonimus TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
NGL I've had more than my share of frustration with the examples they've provided on my TLPs due to their writing style's handicaps and their tendency to not give enough context.
^ This is also true. I once had to flag them down with a PM to get context for an example.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Chiming in to support War Jay 77's observations. Some of Malady's TLP activity has left me wondering. However, as War Jay 77 stated, Malady is a good troper.
I agree they're a good troper, but they have a very unique posting style that I struggle to follow sometimes. Like Jay said, it's a lot of stream-of-consciousness posting, which often seems more for their sake than for the wiki's. It's not a problem in itself, but if they're not communicating with others, then that might be an issue. I never got the impression they were too stubborn or harming the wiki though.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I wouldn't say they're too stubborn, rather that they just sort of don't seem to absorb the information and criticism people are trying to give them. They're not like Bulma, who put up a stink because people dared to critique their writing- they're willing to listen to what people are saying. They just don't often seem to do anything with that criticism, or at least, nothing that actually sticks.
Plus, like I said, they did kind of ignore my concern about their grammar and basically responded to my issue with an example by saying something along the lines of "it was from this other draft I had and maybe I'll put it back if that one launches", which fixes nothing. It doesn't really inspire confidence in me.
Edited by WarJay77 Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Regarding their grammar, I've noticed they tend to overuse question marks (i.e., using them in sentences that aren't actually questions).
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
^ I think they do that when they're not sure of something, making a suggestion, or offering an interpretation of something and not wanting to state it as fact. I do the same thing to an extent.
Not a problem in conversational posting as long as people can understand what you mean, but not something to do in description-writing where you're aiming for a "final draft" appearance. I don't think they've done it in the latter case, though. Maybe for TLP descriptions while they're in the draft stage.
^Yeah, using question marks in non-question sentences to convey a degree of uncertainty or ambiguity... isn't really proper grammar as such, but it isn't that unusual. It shouldn't end up in examples but it's fine for conversation.
I will say that they also tend to skimp on context when providing examples, and to overrely on quotes to make for this — some of their examples are just a stub introductory sentence followed by a paragraph or more of text quoted verbatim from the source. They don't always do this, which is odd — sometimes they write out a proper example, sometimes they copy-past a couple paragraphs of text and leave it at that. It's definitely made adding their examples to some of my own drafts more frustrating that it really needed to be.
I can only speculate they treat TLP as a sort of "will finish one day" notepad for concepts, or assume others would fill the drafts for them, but I'd rather not put words into other's mouths. At any rate, I think there may be some misunderstanding about the minimum quality bar for drafts and examples.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
^This. I've been around the launch pad a lot over the past few months and while Malady is certainly proactive in both making their own drafts and commenting on others, their drafts are usually bare bones in terms of the description and are often cribbing off each other in a way that feels like is cluttering the TLP. the website frowns upon people bumping their draft all of the time and what they're doing feels both like genuine effort to work on an idea and like a way to get around bumping the same draft: create a new one that's very similar.
Question. There are occasional examples of tropers who do a number of good things as well as some bad stuff. This particular troper hasn't responded to concerns, correct? It might just be me, but it seems as if folks like this tend to get more of a free pass from the powers that be than the usual problem troper. Maybe my impression is incorrect — just wondering.
^ In my experience, that's not the case. Though again, that's just my experience.
Some tropers get suspensions even after years of active work, for example if they did only one type of edits, but try something else and consistently fail to follow the style, then they may get attention of mods. The reason why this isn't resolved I think because the post sounds like a general question and nobody actively accused them for breaking the rules. If the post sounded like a "TLP violation", then I suppose the higher-ups would take a closer look.
So are we saying Malady is a problem or not? If they repeatedly ignore recommendations for managing drafts, a mod can restrict their access to TLP "until further notice" while still allowing editing and forums.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
We're discussing this but AFAIK a firm decision hasn't been agreed on.
^ Alright, thanks for the update.
The discussion is starting to sound a little popcorn-y. Let's let this thread chill for a bit while the mods think things over.
I will say though that this post was meant to be a general "TLP violation" report, but since they haven't broken any obvious rules it had to be presented as more of a "here's a weird pattern I noticed" query.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Are the mods still mulling this over? Because they just made a one-sentence stub draft
that may or may not be covered by something else. I've been watching it for 40 minutes now to see if they'd update it, and thus far it seems like they're planning to do it "later". This is the sort of thing sandboxes are for.
They nuked it
Yeah, I know... they did that like 20 minutes after I mentioned it. My point remains though.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Even if it was nuked, they still broke a TLP rule or two.
Victor of HGS S320 | "There's rosemary, that's for remembrance. Pray you, love, remember."
Have you pm'd them about it?
Check out my forum game: Rate the above YMMV.
There's no point to it, though. Malady's drafts have been criticized multiple times by multiple parties. What will a PM do that the comments can't?
The point of a notifier is to notify someone that an issue exists. Malady's been notified.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
So if Malady won't listen, then what should we do?
Victor of HGS S320 | "There's rosemary, that's for remembrance. Pray you, love, remember."
Not much we can do but let the mods keep thinking about it. The only reason I bumped this was to bring attention to the stub, which sort of encapsulated the concern we have about Malady using it more as a sandbox than a trope-making platform, and give the mods more to chew on.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Back on the subject of grammar, I admit that the question mark thing was pretty minor, but more recently (a few days ago), I wasn't sure (and I'm still not sure) what they were trying to say in this post in the TRS meta thread because it's confusingly worded.
Their new draft also has some grammatical wonkiness...
^ Agreed. Their writing is poor quality, and some time at the Get Help With English thread wouldn’t be at all unreasonable.
And now they're asking if they can cheat the TLP system entirely.
Mods...you still discussing this???
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Got reminded of this thread since they're very proactive in TLP but specifically I wanted thoughts about this trope draft for the same problems previously mentioned.
^^ Yeah, seriously. There’s a problem here.
Just to add my two cents here, but I requested Malady to go to the English help thread twice, but in both cases, they made the same flimsy excuse of "working on mobile". I'm not sure how working on mobile impacts grammar and writing style unless they failed to double-check auto-correct errors, but this to me sounds like they do not want to commit to improving their grammar at all.
I know from my own experience that editing on a mobile can have an impact on grammar, even without auto-correct. It's easy to remove a word too much or too little, or accidentaly get things in the wrong order, and the small screen makes it harder to spot the errors.
That may just be me, but if you know that you have problems editing on a mobile then perhaps you shouldn't edit on a mobile.
Edited by GnomeTitan
Well, that and the fact that they keep dodging every grammar-notice I attempt to give them...
Also they're still not listening to people on the TLP discussion thread.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Eh? I just discovered this thread right now...
Grammar Notice? You PM-ed me or something? If so, I've got nothing... My latest was from... Imperial Majesty XO, yesterday...
I'm gonna bookmark this, and try to remember tomorrow, after some sleep...
Edited by Malady Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
Grammar notices on TLP drafts specifically. Every time I or someone else brings it up, you ignore it.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Thank you... Well, Deliberately Non-Lethal Attack had its description changed to remove some commas, in my "Oct 18th 2021 at 11:11:01 AM" edit.
Is there still too many commas?
Timed Status-Effect... Well, that and... My other Status Effect page around here... Debuff
TSE's nuked? F. At least it's on the first page. Bringing it back... Because it's for handling the StandardStatusEffect sub-pages. We gotta stick those examples somewhere... Although, Non-Health Damage, I did allow stat lowering temporary status effects, that could do it...
I have nuked a few of my drafts, so I'm hopeful that the ones currently in the draft phase are better than the rest...
Mobile makes long sentences blocky, so blocky that a sufficiently long paragraph is larger than the screen... For example, Subtitle's whole description takes up my whole screen... But looking it over, I'm not happy with it either, I seem to be repeating myself in the first and third paragraphs, some fusion is likely needed...
On that draft specifically... Hmm... It's hard to bump without poking at the description now that there's no more tropes to add... Or are there? I'll do another search and see what I can find... But yeah, description edits first? Yep, on the second page. Time for a bump!
Edited by Malady Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
^ Malady, your sentences overuse the commas and break the fluidity of them, making them difficult to read properly. Like this sentence here for example: "Although, Non-Health Damage, I did allow stat lowering temporary status effects, that could do it...". It should be instead: "Although for Non-Health Damage, I did allow stat lowering temporary status effects, and that could do it...". Noticed how I replaced the comma after "Although" with "for", and I added an "and" to compliment the comma at the last sentence.
Also, for the last time, PLEASE visit the English help thread, and do not dismiss this with another "mobile" excuse. You working on mobile has nothing to do with your grammar and writing style, since mobile phone editing problems are separate issues all on their own. It's very clear that you have difficulty writing coherently, and the mods are not very tolerant on poor grammar (which has lead to many suspensions in the past).
Malady, besides the grammar, my biggest concern is that you seem to be using the TLP for what you should be using sandboxes for. I keep seeing you reference how you're using certain drafts as an example spot for other ones (which isn't something you should be doing, each draft needs to stand alone) and half the time your discards have nothing to do with the concerns you get, but over minor things like "this other draft launched". Stop doing that. If you're just using a draft as a place to hold examples, do us all a favor and make a sandbox instead.
Lately you've been making outright stub drafts, and you never stick to any of the feedback anyone tries to give you- whether it's with grammar, making good drafts, or even just minor things like ZCE usage. It's getting really frustrating. I don't want to see you fix individual errors but then mess up again elsewhere because that doesn't tell me that you listened to what I said. It tells me you aren't listening.
Edited by WarJay77 Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Maybe they don't know what a sandbox is?
For every low there is a high.
Them being an active contributor for years I kinda doubt that part, but anything can happen.
Edited by Amonimus TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Malady also doesn't seem to get the concept behind ZCEs as they just added this to Eight Men Out:
- "Number of Objects" Title: Also a reference to baseball.
I'll send a notifier.
It probably would have been best to make a new query for that since this one is so old and long.
Macron's notes
I didn't really want to make this report, but at this point I'm not sure there's any other way to resolve the issue.
To put it briefly, Malady has consistent issues with making and fixing TLP drafts. A lot of their drafts are born from very specific split concepts but are also simultaneously prone to being really vague, such as an index for the number 2
, A seemingly redundant status-effect trope
, and most recently, a stubby split off from another very bombed draft.
Malady's a splitter; that's obvious. They like to find specific concepts and split them off into subtropes. On paper, there's nothing wrong with that. In practice, their splits tend to be... kinda odd. A lot of times they seem to hone in on very specific and relatively minor things and will attempt a split while still in the TLP stage for the other draft. Their split attempts often end up seemingly overly-specific or technical, and no matter how many times people point out concerns like this they continue to attempt it.
Another recurring issue is their description-writing abilities. They tend to write in individual sentences, making their trope descriptions often really vague and stubby. In the case of "Deliberately Non-Lethal Attack", I noticed a lot of grammar issues they sort of just glossed over in their reply to me, and I'm not the first one who noticed grammar issues with them
. With their stream-of-consciousness posting style following similar issues, it's hard to get them to fix it unless you really break down the issues with it... and then they'll just do it on another draft anyway.
Basically, what I'm concerned over is that the attempts to help fix their draft-making skills never seem to stick, because they keep making the same mistakes on other drafts. And while they have managed to launch a bunch of them, more often than not I see their drafts sit on the launch pad for months, gathering bombs and not really making any progress even when people attempt to point out issues they have with those drafts. It's a recurring theme with them that's starting to feel really... frustrating, since half time, when I attempt to critique their draft or give them advice, they'll respond to my concerns but then carry on without altering anything. And I've seen other people have similar experiences.
So... yeah. I thought it was about time I addressed this problem head-on. Malady is a good troper who does a lot of good work, but when it comes to the TLP they're having more issues than successes.