Non indicative image: Real Women Never Wear Dresses

That picture of Mulan really doesn't apply to the trope; she's not cutting her hair because she's rejecting feminity, she's doing it out of necessity to pose as a soldier and save her father.

Honestly, I don't think you really can have an image for this one, not even a JAFAAC, since it's all about audience reaction.

[1]◊ How about the middle right panel of this page with a caption saying "still not cool enough.. She needs some pants."?

edited 2nd Dec '10 8:02:16 AM by Raso

What about Winry from Full Metal Alchemist in her working clothes? Shows her getting down and dirty and whatnot.

Gotta be a good image of Straw Feminists protesting femininity from Y: The Last Man, but I don't own a copy.

I picked the Mulan pic partly because it was on Important Haircut at the time (and copying it was convenient) and partly because, even if Mulan was NOT doing this out of rejecting femininity, someone who was Completely Missing The Point could mistake it for that, just as Real Women Never Wear Dresses interpretations of it were Completely Missing The Point. It was basically my attempt at Fridge Brilliance. Come to think of it, though, I guess it didn't quite work as well as I thought.

edited 2nd Dec '10 1:41:21 PM by neoYTPism

I also think it's being used for Important Haircut, and I think it's much more suitable there.

I'm not sure how successful we'll be in finding a picture that doesn't rely on the caption and properly displays that the reason people are angry is because she wears a dress/is feminine and for no other reason.

I have a suspicion that we'll get a good page image when the second half of Deathly Hallows is released. Considering all the crap that's been dished at Molly Weasley for being "just" a stay -at-home-mother, and how she can't possibly be a powerful wizard because of it, I think her taking down Bellatrix will work nicely.

Yes, but that image would rely entirely on the caption, just as the Mulan one does. It assumes familiarity with not just the character, but the fanbase and their preferences as well.

Difference is, its connection to the trope would at least be a bit more direct than mine.

And I believe I already pointed out that my pic is already on Important Haircut. o.o

Molly Weasley would only have to look motherly (and she does) for that image to be awesome.

Well, there are a few problems with a Molly Weasley picture (not to mention we don't actually have one):

1) This trope isn't (just) about people assuming feminine women can't fight, it's assuming that even a woman who does fight shouldn't appear to be feminine because that is a weakness. Mulan kicks ass, but some people aren't okay with the girl-power message because she also wears dresses and doesn't completely shuck her feminine trappings after she gets kicked out of the army.

2) Harry Potter and Voldemort are iconic, recognizable characters (arguably Ron and Hermione, too, provided their wearing their uniforms). B-characters like Bellatrix and Molly are not. I'd argue that most people would recognize who Mulan is, even if they've never seen the movie, and that provides a certain amount of background. The wands help, but even people who remember the series might not recognize them.

3) Bellatrix [1]◊ and Molly [2]◊. Who's the feminine one? Bellatrix looks like The Dark Chick. Molly looks like Team Mom. Both are feminine.

4) It assumes that it's widely thought (or was thought) that she can't kick ass because she's a feminine mom. Mama Bears are pretty common in fiction, so, even visually it's difficult to tell why one would think so. All we would see is two women fighting. Is it Designated Girl Fight? Is it a Mama Bear fight? Good vs Evil? While the Fan Dumb might have thought she was weak, did everyone? Was she commonly scorned? If not, I can't see why anyone would think that all readers would believe this of Molly. Especially readers only familiar with the movies and know very little about her. As I mentioned, most images of this trope with just a feminine looking woman kicking ass (or one who's going to) are going to assume relations with the fandom and their preferences, not just the work.

Wouldn't an image of a feminine woman with someone commenting on "women can't fight" and then the woman kicking ass work a bit better?

...TL;DR?

edited 7th Dec '10 10:35:37 AM by helterskelter

Well, it's totally speculation :) But if the image is good, Molly wouldn't have to be a recognizable character, she would just have to look a certain way. I don't think anyone is actually suggesting an imaginary image, just WMGing about the future.

edited 7th Dec '10 8:29:28 PM by rodneyAnonymous

I like the Peach pic in the second post.

I think Peach works. She's being badass, but wearing a dress. A PINK one at that. The nerve!

You know, this trope is a bit confusing when I first came across it. The image itself is just a girly girl kicking ass. The caption would do all of the work.

Besides, is Peach really a good example? For all that she fights in Super Princess Peach and any of her other playable games, there are many more examples of her getting kidnapped and being the Distressed Damsel, despite apparently being able to handle herself. She just...chooses to get kidnapped I guess? She runs around between being an Action Girl and a Faux Action Girl.

"I have a suspicion that we'll get a good page image when the second half of Deathly Hallows is released." - Madrugada

When's that supposed to be?

June, IIRC.

So, it's going to be a while yet. o.o

I guess the idea should be to use something that will tide us over for a half a year. In any case, my current questions are:

• Is the problem with that particular pic, or using Mulan in general?
  • If the former, I could probably find a more fitting Mulan pic.
  • If the latter, what's wrong with using Mulan and my reasoning in favour of using her?

edited 28th Jan '11 8:46:40 PM by neoYTPism

I'm against any image that's simply of a woman kicking ass, and a quote that references the trope. That adds nothing to the article. In that sense, I doubt we'll find a good image until we find something directly referencing this trope.

"I'm against any image that's simply of a woman kicking ass, and a quote that references the trope." - helterskelter

Who says the pic has to simply be of a woman kicking ass? o.o

The trope is "Internet Backdraft (or other strong audience reaction) to a woman who acts 'too feminine'".

We're not going to get a picture of the reaction, so we might as well go for a woman acting "too feminine". (Though I have to say, the Code Geass picture from before was actually pretty good, or at least better than the current one.)

Regardless, I'm against an image that's simply of a woman, with the caption explaining how she fits.

If we can't find an image of this trope, I vote imageless.

So if among examples of this trope, we went for an image of one of them actually looking feminine, we'd get a better idea of this? Perhaps we could go with one of Mulan literally wearing a dress?

But what does that tell you about the trope?

A woman is wearing a dress.

That says nothing of the Audience Reaction that, no matter how strong or badass a character is, if she wears a dress, something is wrong. Or "femininity is a weakness". That image doesn't convey it.

I hate to suggest it, but isn't there a meme that shows audience reactions?