Pokémon anime

An update regarding this question asked several pages ago

The Brave Olivine has two giant gas bag at the front and back of the ship, with an elevator/stair in between. I just found this detail when rewatching Episode 4 again.

the two ways that works is: ann is coral in disguise or hiding her connections so the reveal can be shocking (get it because her voice actor is Pikachu in Japan)

Another possible point against the theory could be age, if the Explorers wouldn't allow a child to be an admin. Also that Ann and Coral have different voice actors.

Meanwhile, yeah, I think I remember that layout for the ship now.

Edited by 6f5e4d on Apr 13th 2024 at 3:25:27 AM

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Apr 13th 2024 at 11:32:00 AM

Wrong thread.

UU cleanup is currently leaning to cut these examples from UnintentionallyUnsympathetic.Pokemon as complaining about them as opposed to them being intended as sympathetic.

• Iris' dynamic with Ash was supposed to be seen as a replica of Ash's dynamic with Misty from the Indigo Series. However, since Ash would only occasionally snark back at Iris in Best Wishes (unlike Kanto Ash who would always snark back at Misty when Misty insulted him), this is what caused some fans to feel like Iris' constant teasing of Ash came across as unnecessarily mean spirited (unlike Ash's dynamic with Misty). As written fails to explain why she was supposed to be sympathetic despite her teasing. The criticism discussed has nothing to do with her intended sympathy.
• Serena can come off this way in her relationship with her mother, Grace. We're meant to see Serena feeling as though Grace is pushing her into following in her footsteps as a racer and wanting her to do things she doesn't want to do as being valid and having reason to root for her. But it's made clear that Serena chose to try out Rhyhorn Racing, actually does have a talent for racing but doesn't enjoy doing it because it gets too rough for her, and indeed has a history of giving up on something she takes on the moment it starts getting too hard and requiring more extra effort from her. Grace thus seems insistent that Serena stick to racing because she knows that's something she's skilled at and pushes for her to put in more effort and work harder at it so that she can get better at it, which isn't an unreasonable thing for a mother to want for her child. Yet Serena acts as though her mother was overbearing, even when Grace has given her enough comfort and freedom of choice that her striking out on her own in order to join Ash on his journey was possible in the first place. More about Grace being Unintentionally Sympathetic/ nformedWrongness than Serena being meant to be right/sympathetic for such.
• As a result of his desire to catch every Pokémon species, Goh is meant to be seen as an ambitious and vigorous boy, but a number of fans find the way he goes about achieving this goal (or even the goal itself) to be rather callous in nature. While the games encourage players to catch every Pokémon to fill out the Pokédex, the anime made it clear in the very first episode that catching a Pokémon is not required to obtain that species' Pokédex entry in this continuity. This means catching every Pokémon serves no purpose beyond bragging rights in the anime. Moreover, the anime throughout its entire run has emphasized that having fewer but stronger relationships with Pokémon is more desirable and respectable than having several shallow ones. Adding to the problem, Goh clearly favors certain Pokémon over others (out of the 115 Pokémon Goh owns, only 27 have made multiple appearances, with three of those Pokemon being permanent fixtures in his party). It doesn't help that any headway Goh makes toward treating his Pokémon better rarely transfers over to other species, with Goh having to constantly relearn the same lessons. Was supposed to be a deliberately flawed character for such given he had to learn lessons. Only UU I see is is intended redeeming developments not sticking, but as written insufficient to make a UU entry work.

Thoughts? Should they be cut/moved or is there a way to revise the entries to make them work?

They may have to go, I'll drop some statements to see what others have to say first.

Iris may seem like someone the narrative tried to portray as in the right at times, but there were moments that undermined her knowledge, and it eventually became clear that she was the one who was "such a kid" and was deflecting criticism off herself. The fact that she eventually became Unova Champion indicates that she grew out of it.

Serena's attitude seems like something the show tried to ignore and let continue for a long time without addressing, but in reality, it took only seven episodes to address it and force her to realize how unfair she was, meaning this behavior was never unintentional. Being forced to say the same things her mother said to her and then experiencing firsthand the true nature of all Rhyhorn can make one quickly turn around their opinions.

Goh's situation is that he's a surrogate for newer, more casual players (including the Pokémon GO crowd, given that the anime was incorporating references to it by this time) dropped into a long-running franchise, and so he's likely meant to be a jerk on purpose. The tricky part is that even characters who don't fall into this trope and remain sufficiently likable still have to relearn some lessons occasionally.

@Ferot_Dreadnaught of those three Iris is the one that needs to be reworked, as she at times shows of signs of insecurity but not enough to give the audience as a way to care about her, as the next couple of episodes goes back to her being abrasive to Ash on his mistakes without hinting of her mistakes, the other two just feels like complaining so they can be removed.

@6f5e4d the fun thing about Coral's japanese voice actor is that she is also Pikachu's voice, that is significant as Japan doesn't do double casting for the most part without reason

How's this?

• Iris was supposed to a Jerk with a Heart of Gold who's hypocritical teasing of Ash was meant to be counterbalanced by her own insecurities her attitude was to cover up. But the episodes that explored her insecurities enough to be sympathetic were seen as too few and far in-between to offset this and, unlike the similar teasing dynamic with Misty, Ash was now such a Nice Guy it came off as unfair bullying continuing even after Iris's intended redeeming developments.

I haven't watched that XY episode in a while but I'm pretty sure Serena was supposed to be sympathetic there. The first two episodes go out of their way to show how much she hates Rhyhorn racing and seeing Ash on TV was essentially her excuse to finally get away from it, plus her struggles to stand up to her mom about her performing dream are definitely depicted in a sympathetic light.

The Goh entry seems closer to Fridge Horror than anything. I do agree Goh's excessive captures are pretty eye-rolling but the way he treats his Pokemon is rarely if ever addressed narratively. As far as the series wants you to believe, he does spend time with them and treats them well. It's just offscreen.

that works.

Regarding Iris: For some reason, I remember hearing that Iris' general childishness, including the Hypocritical Humor, was supposed to be seen as "Kawaisa cute". But there's also the question of whether the home demographic found it so. If not, then we have a good case; if so, we'd have to determine whether Americans Hate Tingle is sufficient to qualify for UU.

Regarding Serena's example: I don't think that Grace has a case for Unintentionally Sympathetic. The reason is that I don't think that the target audience would understand the concept of Tough Love, especially as it would apply to this situation. They may realize it themselves when they get to be older, and the Periphery Demographic would likely have some comprehension for Grace's actions, either by being a parent themselves or having benefited from a parent acting like Grace did, but that would lend more towards a characterization equivalent of Fridge Brilliance. For Serena's part, the fact that she receives the vocational equivalent of an Engagement Challenge, along with her general status as a Deuteragonist, support Blast Vision's point about Serena being sympathetic, but to qualify for UU, there should be a portion of the fandom wanting Serena to lose the EC solely for how she was treating her mom, as opposed to external factors.

You think we'll get any Liko or Roy movies?

Maybe if Horizons goes on for a while more, maybe we will. I bet these two, and Dot, making it three, are suitable for movies.

So last year for Pokémon Day, mom and I watched the 3D remake of "Pokémon: The First Movie" on Netflix, and in the scene of Ash and co. surviving the waters, I swear to Arceus the music sounded familiar. Until I remembered it's the Totem Pokémon battle theme from Pokémon Sun & Moon.

That's an unexpected place for that music to play, even considering it's supposed to be a remake of a Gen I film.

IIRC the Alola series used the Kalosian Elite Four music in that episode with Kiawe's Marowak debuting, but I might be miss taken here?

Liko has met Katy in today's episode. Sadly, the gym battle didn't go so well, but hey, at least she still got a stamp.

Edited by 6f5e4d on Apr 19th 2024 at 10:43:50 AM

Interesting that we only say Coral/Sango/Sandwich on her own, but it's nice that instead of just having to see the same members of the Explorers, things will be switched up a bit.

The anime will take another week off, so we will have to wait a while to see Roy encounter Brassius again.

It always annoyed me that when Ash lost in the anime, he'd keep going on his journey, but when I lose in the games, I have to shell out money and can't progress further until I defeat the important NPC(s).

Probably because money is largely nonexistent in the Pokemon anime. Also, while Ash has to actually acknowledge his losses, the games pull the Reset Button on battles unless they are programmed to allow the player to lose.

The money in Pokémon is literally pocket change when you see Pokedollars as Yen. 100 Yens equate to one US dollar. 1800 Pokédollars would just mean $18 US dollars.

We don't know where Ash get his money, but we can presume that his mother gives a proportion of her income to him at the beginning. Then Brock supplies Ash given that he seems to be the one with all the pots and pans.

And by the time of Journeys, it seems Ash is famous enough that money doesn't seem to be an issue anymore.

Have they ever physically shown the Pokémon world's money? Or is it just that thing on Meowth's head? (A "koban", I think was its name?) 🤔

Yup that's what it's called. That's why the Chansey brings Meowth fried rice (gohan) and a board for the game Go (Go ban) and something else that I forgot what the pun/similar name was in Japan when he's looking for it.

The koban may indeed be a kind of money in game at least. When you use payday the animation is of coins/kobans being thrown at the opponent and when the battle is over you pocket those coins. The amulet coin which doubles money earned also looks very much like Meowth's charm.

Edited by GlitterCat on Apr 23rd 2024 at 5:28:13 AM