During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
It's... possible, like, looking at his argument "extremely grateful" is as in-depth as his care for his sister is noted. Someone's misreading the tone though and as someone who hasn't read the work I wanna sit this out until we hear from more people with firsthand knowledge of the book.
The Moron
That's fair. I'm willing to wait until another person who's read it wants to voice their opinion. I'll also abstain on posting an EP for how he appears in Relic Of The Future; ultimately if he doesn't count here, he won't count there, so I'll sit back and wait.
Again, if someone can point to an instance where he shows that he genuinely cares about her or is grateful for saving him, then I'll let it go, but I do not believe such a moment exists.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 12th 2020 at 2:53:02 AM
I'll lean yes to Jax, for now. I have both books in my room, I'm just yet to read them to clarify myself.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
The Emperor of Evil!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Jax, at least for now.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to the rewrite.
A reminder I'll be creating the Scripts page tomorrow/Monday.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Cut God, Abby's father and Widemouth. Abstain on Jax for now.
Lizzid people!
Going with a slight no on Jax tbf.
No to Jax.
Addendum; I just picked the book up; once I'm done reading it through, I'll give my piece if anyone doesn't mind the wait.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I can wait.
Abstaining on Jax, PM me with any news on Volume 8 for RWBY there.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So final consensus is King Snake stays, and my trimmed entry will suffice?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes that's fine but seriously bear mind to the fact this is the last time a ban evader's character is going to be kept. They can easily be watching these conversations and we're not flagging this as a place they can pop up to whenever they want and squeeze out a candidate when they've given us no reason to trust their word. I've already said this but as you're asking for clarity ACW, I'm ensuring this doesn't translate to another "I put so much work into editing this, can it please stay?"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
It won't, and that was partially said out of frustration.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
If everyone else is fine with King Snake staying, then I'm cool with it. Is this the trimmed entry?
Oh, and I forgot to mention earlier. I finally got around to finishing the Taking AIM expansion for Marvel's Avengers. PM if you want any details on it.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
The pothole does need to be added to his entry. ACW will take care of that.
Edited by DrUnknown on Dec 12th 2020 at 3:31:45 AM
Jake the Snake
William Afton has his own character page now. Should his name in the CM entry have a pothole or is it ok?
Edited by WoodsyGrabass2019 on Dec 12th 2020 at 6:34:55 AM
I'm Surrounded by Idiots...
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
to the King Snake's trimmed entry.
Best Smile
His character page should have a pot hole.
Cut all the creppypastas
Also there is another creppypasta CM, we could consider cut, Bobby J. Fields, from Beware the Good Samaritan, he looks to have the same problem that Spider, most of his crimes are shared with his friends, some of them were even made by his gang without Fields. Or are only mentioned by Nazar or The Judge, that I think count as Offstage Villainy. Altought he is not a so clear cut as the others, he at least have some personality.
In something completly different, we have discussed The Warden Of Internet?
Edited by ASghhrv6ub on Dec 12th 2020 at 6:55:29 AM
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
Ah yes, the try hard pasta attempting to write the ultimate Hate Sink. Yeah, cut Bobby.
Cut Bobby.
Yeah, the Offscreen Villainy is a definite disqualifying factor. Cut Bobby Fields. I was planning on proposing another Creepypasta cut, but considering that we've had more of a few today, I'm going to wait on them for a while.
I can't find any search results on the Warden of Internet, so I'm guessing that he hasn't been discussed yet. Plus, I don't think she can count anyways. Looking over the plot summary, she kidnaps the creators of viral videos by trpping them in the Internet to relive the viral video forever, which doesn't cross the general heinousness standard.
Edited by DrUnknown on Dec 12th 2020 at 4:04:58 AM
Best Smile
Okay, I could do an efforspost for her tomorrow, she have not many personality, but his motives are clear, so I think she have possibility of be a CM.
Don't get me wrong, Gillian cares for him greatly - she sacrifices everything for him throughout her life - but to say that Jax is grateful for it is just a blatant misrepresentation of canon. He never once indicates that he cares that she saved his life, and in fact it's implied multiple times that if he could survive without her Semblance, he'd cut her loose with no regrets.
Ultimately, he literally tries to leave her to die by draining her aura as much as possible because she tried to get him to retreat and survive - in other words, if he had to die, he was going to take her down with him, and he doesn't even try to paint it any other way. That's not love to me.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 12th 2020 at 2:41:13 AM