Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Byeogetsu

to Byeongsu.

Sure to Byeogetsu and here's something I've wanted to talk about for a while now:

• Mary Skelter: Nightmares: Snark, the King of Nightmares, is the one responsible for nearly all the misery within the story. Prior to the main story, it was revealed that he used an Eldritch Abomination known as the Jail in his home planet to do his own bidding. Disguised as the benevolent leader of the Dawn, Professor Tohjima, he found the Blood Maidens and raised them so that he could manipulate them into fighting the monsters known as Marchens and destroy the Jail Cores to accelerate its maturity. It was also revealed that he experiments on an innocent Marchen only to be discarded so that it could be tortured by the Gate Guardian, Kadowaki Towa. In addition, he manipulates a religion, Order of the Sun, by poisoning its Divine Figure by feeding her a food that was produced by the Jail and massacring the followers with his Marchen in the bad ending so that he could get the ingredients for his own agenda. After the Professor revealed himself to be Snark, he discards all of the Dawn members and the Blood Maidens and regretted that he didn't kill them earlier. After the Jail completes its insemination process that produces a new core, Snark fuses himself. In the Golden Ending, he sacrifices all of the Marchens to it. Covering himself with a mask of benevolence and absent-mindedness in order to hide his true sociopathic nature, Snark manipulates all of the factions and the Jail itself so that he could become a god to recreate the world in his own image.

Here is Elfen's EP in which he claimed seeking godhood was Snark's end goal, with his mitigating factors section just focusing on faked friendships and moral agency but from his character page we've got:

• Driven to Villainy: Had the ship looking for an uninhabited planet not been struck by a meteor, the Theophil would've functioned as intended rather than becoming Jails and Snark would've been a hero for saving his world rather than the villain who would sacrifice another to do so.
• Well-Intentioned Extremist: Trying to save his world is a noble goal. Sacrificing another to do so is what makes him a villain. Finale adds a more tragic detail to this, in that Earth itself is already almost entirely lost due to the freak accident that brought him and the Jails there. His goal would have simply sped up Earth's end to save his own.

Now I know tropes get misused and shit but when Elfen did the same character's MB EP here he also cited that you can interpret him as a WIE and the game's main page seems to imply the same thing more so than just being pure evil.

Am I missing something here? I haven't played the game but I really wanna be sure the WIE stuff is nothing more than ACI because as it stands, it sounds like being a NSWIE is the ACI stance.

Let's talk about it.

Has anyone played the game or watched the cutscenes on Youtube? They could have more info.

As for me, character pages have been wrong before. I’m willing to believe either side.

Leaning towards cut myself, given the poster even said seeing him as well-meaning is a valid interpretation but I too would like some firsthand knowledge here.

I Pm'd the troper Landale who added the character tropes to come here and explain. I think they could help explain stuff better.

Hey guys, I just realized the villain from the novelization of Poet Anderson: The Dream Walker might count. I haven't read the comic or seen the cartoon version (and the literature version doesn't currently have a page), but I'll look into the story later and see if an EP is in order. I remember him being pretty bad so hopefully there's something there. Just a pre-EP heads up.

So looking at when those two tropes were added and reading a bit about the series, the final game was released the same day the edit happened which makes me think that the final game revealed more about him that makes him sympathetic. Don't quote me on this though.

I noticed that as well papyru, as the tropes on the main work page seem to hint he's made more sympathetic as more of his past and goals are revealed.

to Lo Po Bau Ren, Byeongsu, the Administrator, Baron Jaysun Valtrith and Director Sprawn.

Yo, eventually we may wanna split AlternateHistory.com from the main Web Original page...there are currently I think 21 entries including Mao.

Wasn't something or another decided to be a like a de facto quarantine zone for things like AH, the MLP fics and other things that proved to be contentious and grating for a lot of us? IIRC there was an early discussion that decided to keep it so even if something technically had enough for a page and instead using folders? Idk it was before my time so I might be off on the details.

Don't we have a few entries on Fan Works that are from that wedsite?

I know we do for the MLP fan works. I'm not sure about anything else having that rule. But it was before my time, so I could be wrong.

Edited by Bullman on Nov 14th 2020 at 1:26:33 PM

Yeah, I know we use folders—which I'm fine with—but if it gets to like 30 we may wanna split it off (especially because AlternateHistory.com is a thing, while My Little Pony Fanfic isn't).

Do we? I honestly don't remember.

Edited by ACW on Nov 14th 2020 at 2:25:26 PM

Yeah, at least AH is an actual work.

We do indeed have one looking at the page. A Crossed fanfic.

Edited by Bullman on Nov 14th 2020 at 1:30:44 PM

It's not a work, it's a website. That said, I'm not really inclined to take a stance myself here.

We have a fanfic from crossed. How ? Wouldn't the standard be too jacked.

Wait what?

The entry btw:

• General Liu Zhen is a opportunistic Chinese ultranationalist who wishes to take advantage of the chaos left from the Crossed to ensure China's rise. Aware that the other world powers are too busy dealing with the infection, Zhen plans to unleash the Crossed virus on the "Japanese devils" and Taiwan, planning to recover the Taiwanese land after killing its infected population while also causing a small contained outbreak in Hong Kong to hide China's guilt. When his plan is rejected by the General Secretary Hu Jintao, Zhen just carries it out as a rogue general, content to let his government take the blame. Killing 95% of the Japanese population by giving them a horrid virus while also sacrificing his own countrymen for a useless cover story, Liu Zhen also ends up dooming China to the rage of the Americans, who nuked its capital as revenge for the massacre in Japan. A xenophobic revanchist who killed millions in the most horrific ways by giving them to the Crossed, Liu Zhen managed to be as bad or worse than the titular Crossed, despite being totally uninfected.

Edited by 43110 on Nov 14th 2020 at 2:37:34 PM

Yeah I really don't really remember when it was discussed and to be honest I have never heard of the original comic. So I can't really comment on it. All I know was that it was approved and it is from that site.

Edited by Bullman on Nov 14th 2020 at 1:42:46 PM

Right off the bat... in the original comic a "hero" of one of the arcs, who's just a fuck off dude running on his own, tries to sell out all of mankind to survive the Crossed's takeover. Unless this somehow ignores all the shit in the original I'm not seeing the case to keep.

Thank you for mentioning it Bull, this is the one scenario in which having unfortunate knowledge of that train wreck comic comes in handy.

Edited by 43110 on Nov 14th 2020 at 2:43:38 PM

No problem. Happy to help. Even if it's by complete accident on my part.

And if the original comic's heinous standard is really that jacked then I say cut.

Edited by Bullman on Nov 14th 2020 at 1:48:31 PM

One thing everyone likes to ignore when trying to squeeze in a CM there? The Crossed aren't superhumans, they're regular people with their impulse control gone and desire to be sadistic driven to insane levels. They commit every crime in the book in sickening, graphic detail and while they lack agency, they do contribute to the heinous standard. Rape is not a unique crime, nor is cannibalism, nor is graphic torture, nor are combinations of those things. Even if someone does use them for their own ends, you run into the problem of the survivalist, asshole protagonists only being a slightly lighter shade of grey in that world where they kill children to avoid sharing supplies after promising their dying care-taker they'd look after them, selling each other out to the Crossed to live a bit longer, living out their own desires to rape and commit serial murder in the new lawless world and just about anything else you can think of. A racist general using the infection for genocide is bad but even with the prejudiced angle on his crimes, he still objectively does less than people with fewer resources, even if he has no redeeming qualities. I really don't think we need to talk about keepers from this comic or fan fics of it anymore.

The fic is its entire new story simply keeping the basic premise of Crossed and trying to apply a Reality Ensues of the "grimdark aint actually realistic" variety.

For starters? The fic ends with a Bittersweet Ending where despite tens of millions of deaths, human society is still there, having succesfully defeated the infection instead of the societal collapse seen in the Comic.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 14th 2020 at 2:57:02 PM

Interesting.