During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Eh. If it’s AU then sure.
The Draftsman of Doom
Sure to Irons.
Anyone else want to vote on my candidate? I think it is starting to get buried along with Ducky's Darkseid effortpost, other than 1 yes, 1 no and multiple abstains.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 20th 2020 at 10:41:15 AM
Feels good, don't it?
I'm abstaining on the Devil
Contentious ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Devil
Darkseid
Edited by nwotyzal on May 20th 2020 at 7:40:20 AM
Yes to Darkseid and Irons... not getting it from the devil.
to Darkseid and Irons. Abstain on the Devil.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Irons.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes to Irons.
Also, btw...on one of my old entries, from Goblin Slayer...I had previously proposed the Goblin Lord but 43 made me aware of a side story that sheds more insight to goblin mindsets and it does confirm all of them are pretty innately evil with the rapemurder mentality...the Goblin Lord is smarter than an average member of his race, but unless a good or heroic goblin is introduced, I think this is enough reasonable doubt to cut in the interest of caution for now under the Always Chaotic Evil issue.
And also, thanks to 43, I have an edit to Kibutsuji Muzan' writeup I did:
- A sadistic, cowardly sociopath predicating a survivalist society of bloodshed to maintain his own safety, Muzan Kibutsuji stands responsible for the single most death and suffering in the series. Muzan was born a sickly child in the Ubuyashiki family but through a doctor's attempts to cure him incidentally became the first and mightiest demon and grew obsessed with his own perfection. Corrupting others into demons by preying on their weakness at their lowest then infecting them using the special properties of his blood, Muzan develops the system where demons feed on humans en masse for power, leading to countless innocent deaths as he maintains it for over one thousand years, with his blood poisoning and painfully killing any who so much as utter his name. Muzan is also personally responsible for killing the mother and siblings of the young hero Tanjiro Kamado, as well as the demonic transformation of his younger sister Nezuko. When encountered, Muzan escapes notice by turning an innocent man into a demon and siccing him on his wife before killing several other humans in a fit of pique when they trouble him. Muzan orders countless humans slaughtered, and when his subordinates, the Lower Kizuki, disappoint him, Muzan massacres the survivors, deciding they are too weak to survive. Later attempting to massacre all of the Demon Slayers, when Muzan knows death is inevitable he intends to turn Tanjiro into a demon to kill them in his stead.
Edited by Lightysnake on May 20th 2020 at 10:04:04 AM
Yes, your EP was neutral and that was fair but people were way too fast to abuse the agency assumption rule while ignoring that there is literal evidence they have no capability to be anything BUT rapey psychos and a one off line that there MIGHT be a good one is not substantial to counter that. Get him off. Also I’d add unleashing the Lord as part of his plan to the Dark Elf’s entry as I said. Using that raging psycho is worth a mention imo.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Last sentence at the top now ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Edited by 43110 on May 20th 2020 at 1:09:24 PM
The Draftsman of Doom
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, seems like a cut. Kinda seems like Warboss Thraka: SMARTER than most orcs, but still Always Chaotic Evil, so he can't count (plus the whole Villain Respect thing).
For Clone Wars, should we mention the chip thing for Order 66? We can probably slot it after "using Sith sorcery in an attempt to corrupt and kill Yoda"
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The wifi here sucks
So I haven't seen Goblin Slayer so this may be inaccurate but reading through the character pages for Goblin Slayer I found the Goblin Paladin which is a goblin that has been made intelligent by religion, and on there it mentions that under his direction the goblin start showing some levels of comradery, with one of them even sacrificing himself to protect the paladin. Again I haven't seen the series so I may be wrong on this.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
They get smarter and even with being able to receive prayers they still don’t display any capability for good or even anything beyond a desire to rape and kill as they see fit. Zero indicates they have a choice in their nature.
The wifi here sucks
Got it, I just wanted to check, cut the lord.
Also yes to Irons
Edited by papyru30 on May 20th 2020 at 11:15:02 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Cut the Goblin Lord if I didn't vote against him in the first place.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
RIP Toriyama
'Yes' to Darkseid, Abatu, and Irons (his mainstream version legitimately should count by every damn indication, except that he never once does anything truly heinous—one of the biggest frustrations I've ever had with a comic candidate). Kinda leaning 'No' on the Devil, and 'Cut' the Goblin Lord for agency issues. Greatly approve of the Muzan rewrite, though!
Also, because I forgot to write this one up with my last batch...and yes, the "It" should probably be capitalized as I have it, because that's how it's spelled in-stort
- The Gods of H.P. Lovecraft, "Petohtalrayn" by Bentley Little: "The Dark Man," Nyarlathotep Itself, is an ancient, wicked entity that has stalked and haunted humankind as a whole for centuries, orchestrating the destruction of entire civilizations through infertility, plagues, and even implications that It was behind the Biblical Flood. Tasked with destroying all of humanity by Its Outer God masters, a mission It embraced with sadistic joy, Nyarlathotep was sealed away when It consistently failed to complete Its mission, and dragged survivors of Its atrocities down into Its prison with It. Nyarlathotep destroyed the minds of Its prisoners and forced them to propagate with one another over the course of thousands of years, resulting in inbred monstrosities kept under Its thrall for millennia while It reached out and lured innocent people to It to make them new servants. Nyarlathotep hopes to one day lead Its abominable army in a new genocide of humanity, idling the time away until then by casually raping and killing any and everyone It can.
Edited by Ravok on May 20th 2020 at 10:52:07 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Cut the Goblin Lord.
Guess cut the Goblin Lord (Always Chaotic Evil has always been a Pet-Peeve Trope of mine, mainly because I don't like the idea of a race being completely evil without justification)
Edited by nwotyzal on May 20th 2020 at 11:06:18 AM
I don't know, isn't Goblin Paladin and his followers proof that goblins can have positive qualities?
Also, to Darkseed and Irony.
43's comment says that while they can get smart and receive prayers, they can never be flat out good.
Edited by nwotyzal on May 20th 2020 at 11:25:13 AM
Showtime!
Cut the Goblin Lord
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Edited by VeryVileVillian on May 20th 2020 at 5:12:13 PM