During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
If it's played that way as a disqualifying FE, then cut him, unless he relished what he became à la Kyras.
Edited by ACW on May 1st 2020 at 5:32:12 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cut Volthoom.
He's a monstrous sadist but it's not nearly the same as Kyras who wasn't locked up for 8 billion years forced to watch the horrors of the universe. Yes, Volthoom is an evil sadist with a god complex but...
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Alright, cut 'em. Did we also agree to cut Enerjak?
BTW, it seems the current consensus for World of Darkness image is keep, so I'll request locking/swapping soon.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes, I believe enough people are in favor of cutting Enerjak. I already requested to remove him, along with the picture and caption, at the Locked Pages thread.
Edited by falcontalons on May 1st 2020 at 2:56:26 AM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Leaning Cut on him...but one thing, his write up mentions he was already responsible for a ton of death and torture before his imprisonment.
Did he "go nuts" in the sense he had genuine mental issues but was locked away instead of helped? Or was this just a particularly Brutal Sealed Evil in a Can?
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Originally, he wanted to save his world.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Understood, Cut Him.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
The Draftsman of Doom
Ultimate Moral Compass
Yeah, cut Volthoom and changing my abstain to a cut for Enerjak as well.
"No running in the halls!"
Cut Volthoom
Edited by G-Editor on May 1st 2020 at 12:28:13 AM
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Volthy
Edited by nwotyzal on May 1st 2020 at 3:51:21 AM
Cut Volthoom.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the Shaktimaan duo, LaRoche and Gurjev
Glad I brought him up to Lightysnake then. Thing is, Volthoom probably qualified when he was put up. Then Rebirth happened and gave him a backstory to patch up a few plotholes. A good backstory, but one that disqualified him.
Edited by crankers on Mar 26th 2022 at 12:23:10 PM
Yeah to La Roche.
Does the Mythology section of Other Media have enough to get their own page or is it not enough?
@falcontalons
The airships are facing the same way as him. And I would say standing over and laughing at the destruction you caused is evil
Edited by NattesNovgrel on May 1st 2020 at 8:06:52 AM
Lizzid people!
Don't really like the suggested image; are people at least getting vaporized? Kind of lacks context.
RIP Toriyama
Cut Volthoom, but late 'Yes' votes to LaRoche, Patrius and Ignatius
Last Chill candidate for us all!
Who is he?
John Lockwood is a werewolf, specifically, the most powerful kind known in the Chill universe, a "Loup du Mal". Posing as a meatpacking plant owner worth millions, Lockwood is in truth a vicious Serial Killer plaguing the state of Wisconsin, killing "countless" victims and cursing them to a life as a ghost until the day he is destroyed...and turning several of his victims into Lycanthropes themselves.
What has he done?
In the story "Blood Moon Rising," the first story concerns the SAVE PCs contending with a vicious Lycanthrope named Myra Wade, a woman horrified at her actions but compelled nonetheless to become a werewolf at the light of the moon and slaughter innocents. Myra ends up killing her own son and nearly wiping out the entire small town of Isabel one citizen at a time before she is killed by the PCs...at the cost of one or more of the PCs being bitten by her.
Realising that Myra was turned into her nasty form by a Loup du Mal, and that if said Loup du Mal isn't destroyed by the next full moon the PCs bitten by her will become Lycanthropes themselves, the PCs travel to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, to track down the Loup du Mal responsible for Myra's fate.
Eventually discovering that local millionaire John Lockwood is the one they're searching for, the PCs uncover a bevy of nastiness to Lockwood...he turned his janitor, Leroy Biggs, into a Lycanthrope and deliberately sabotaged the man's attempts to cure himself—Lockwood brutally assaulted a gypsy woman Biggs tried to get help from—and Biggs went on to commit horrible murders much to Lockwood's amusement, until Lockwood framed Biggs for all of his killings and got him locked up. Lockwood has also turned the town detective Jim Miller into a Lycanthrope as well, using him to help Lockwood get away with his hellton of murders, and is the reason Myra Wade became a Lycanthrope, as she was once Lockwood's secretary and he mauled her one night and turned her into a werewolf.
Lockwood has been investigated by SAVE before...the PCs find themselves at one point in Lockwood's trophy room and find a half dozen SAVE pendants of other members of the organization Lockwood has slaughtered. And the latest SAVE member to try to stop Lockwood, Tiffany Winsome, instead has found herself the unwilling object of Lockwood's possessive affections, and Lockwood has used dark Loup du Mal magic to brainwash the woman into being his romantic partner, biting her and planning to turn her into a Lycanthrope when the next full moon arrives before marrying her.
When the PCs try to rescue Tiffany, Lockwood first sadistically stalks and torments them in a variety of ways before he uses Miller to capture them all and then bites each and every PC, planning to turn them all into his Lycanthrope slaves to use in his bidding. As the PCs confront Lockwood at a zoo where he has hidden Tiffany, Lockwood duels them for a time, before, realizing he is running low on power, breaks off from the fight and slaughters several nearby innocent people to rejuvenate his energy (a strategy noted to be Lockwood's favorite method of fighting—breaking off fights to kill nearby people to reenergize himself).
The PCs ultimately manage to beat Lockwood and free Tiffany from his influence, simultaneously saving themselves from becoming Lycanthropes and allowing all of Lockwood's victims to properly move on into the afterlife in the process.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
None that really are solid. Most Lycanthropes are lacking in agency and are just consumed by their werewolf natured, but Lockwood is a specific Loup du Mal, and has complete agency, knowing exactly what he's doing at all times and relishing in it.
He does want to marry Tiffany and the narrative outright says that he would "put even himself in danger to recover her" if the PCs try to help her escape his clutches, but there's zero indications that Lockwood sees Tiffany as anything but a typical I Have You Now, My Pretty, especially seeing as he's forcibly altered her mind to bend to his will and plans to make her a Lycanthrope bride when the next full moon comes around.
Heinousness?
Lockwood's the least obviously heinous of the candidates proposed so far, but he still handily makes it. Most werewolves just kill people around them, but Lockwood specifically bites and turns people into Lycanthropes and then unleashes them onto the world just for funsies. He bit Myra and she ended up slaughter her own child and trying for an entire town, he turned Biggs into a Lycanthrope and used him to help Lockwood kill people before framing Biggs for everything, and the story notes that Lockwood has done this to plenty people.
On top of his victims being explicitly referred to as "countless" and trapped in a Fate Worse than Death until Lockwood is beaten, plus his favorite "strategy" being murdering innocent people during fights to regain his strength, and we've got the nastiest werewolf in the canon by far.
Final Verdict?
Handy and final Keeper from Chill, I believe.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Goku Black
Lockwood.
Huh a Werewolf with the surname Lockwood. Sounds familiar
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to John Lockwood.
Cut Volthoom.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Lockwood.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Goku Black
Also cut volthoom.
Also please come and help with votes as well as suggestions of your own in sonic the hedgehog page and the world of darkness page
Edited by miraculous on May 1st 2020 at 5:53:24 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yes to Lockwood.
Have a cut:
Okay...this was submitted without appropriate vetting. Volthoom is really horrible and monstrous throughout, focusing on mental torture, omnicidal mania...issue is?
volthoom was a normal guy trying to save his world and volunteered for the Lantern project...then he went nuts and got imprisoned for billions of years, aware the entire time to go completely insane.
I'm sorry, but imprisoned and self aware for 8 billion years to drive you nuts is too much of an FE for me to be comfortable with Volthoom as a CM