During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I Can't Believe I'm Saying This, but ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Liquid Snake.
Wonder if we might end up having enough for Metal Gear to get its own page.
The wifi here sucks
Liquid Snake
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Possibly, if Liquid is approved we'd only need 1 more to have 7. I can't think of anyone else in the first two games who may count in the comics aside from maybe Vamp so the 7th candidate would have to be from another non canon work.
And we don't need another to keep, nor, quite honestly, do we need a page.
I'm honestly going to abstain from Liquid. Even if it's from the comic, the fact that we kno that the possession was fake (and Ocelot himself used hypnosis on himself to convince himself he was actually being possessed) gives me sketchy issues over it, in addition to Liquid's fleshed out backstory. Not comfortable voting him up.
Nothing alludes to hypnosis in the comic, plus additional scenes and some minor changes to the plot show off that possession was indeed real in the comic.
Self-Declared King of Everything
to Liquid Snake.
Anyway, here's the writeup of fanfic Frieza that I've been procrastinating on.
- In Pursuit Of Vengenace: Frieza proves to be just as vile as his canon counterpart. Having previously wiped out almost all of the Saiyan race out of fear of being rebelled, Frieza later finds out that Raditz purged everybody on Earth and forcibly brought Goku to the organization. Viewing Goku as an opportunity to tear down Vegeta's intended rebellion before it starts, Frieza tricks Goku into purging an innocent alien race before agreeing to train Goku for the sake of having him kill Raditz, repeatedly bringing Goku to near death in the process. To keep Goku in line after realizing that torture won't break him, Frieza kills innocents right in front of Goku to punish him, such as killing a loyal scientist of his just because Goku was growing a bond with him, and destroying a planet that Goku refused to purge, mocking Goku for being the cause of it. Upon finding out that Goku, Vegeta, and Nappa have went to Namek underneath his nose to betray Frieza, he orders the Ginyu Force to kill Nappa, bring Goku and Vegeta to him, and to wipe out every Namekian for "harboring traitors." When Frieza finally confronts Goku and Vegeta, Frieza gleefully tortures both of them to the brink in death, telling Goku that after he kills the Saiyans, he'll purge all of the revived Earthlings just to spite him.
Nothing alluded to hypnosis and nanomachines in MGS 2 either, it's the same objection I had to some of the One Piece non-canon movies in those arcs.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Abstain on Liquid Snake.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
If the possession’s real this time around, (I’ll never understand why Ocelot wanted to pretend to act like he was possessed by Liquid) I give an to Liquid Snake. Also, if Metal Gear does end up getting a page, I can already the quote being like, “In a world full with war and people with ideologies about mankind, these individuals stand out among the rest.”
Ok, that quote I just made absolutely SUCKED and I hope someone can come up with a better one... If we get a Metal Gear page that is.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Leaning yes to Liquid.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Liquid
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Durge
I’ll give Liquid Snake a
I thought sharks were my friends.
Abstain on Eli. I'm totally allowed to call Liquid that because it's his actual name!
RIP KissAnime.
The Draftsman of Doom
Abstain on Liquid Snake.
Feels good, don't it?
Justification is not the issue at stake here. Durge's backstory doesn't justify a single thing. He commits genocide on the gungans, and attempts to gas Naboo, in addition to systematically hunting and murdering countless others.
The problem is care for his mentor Jaing. Koba goes mad with power, and it's abundantly clear he cares nothing for other apes.
Edited by Lightysnake on Nov 3rd 2019 at 12:32:34 PM
Okay, so admittingly I didn't really read the Legends books, so I wasn't aware about the care for his master so, I guess i'll abstain, with a leaning towards
Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 3rd 2019 at 12:41:11 PM
I disagree with Lighty. While Kojima retconned the arm, the comic seems much more explicit in it ACTUALLY being Liquid. Like, if they adapted MGS 4 that would make some... odd circumstances to write around.
But I personally think Liquid's brainwashing is an issue. Can Vile please elaborate on why that doesn't mitigate Liquid's villainy?
Ah, Star Wars Legends. There was some good stuff. And lots and lots of crap. May we never enter that clusterheck again.
Funny you should say that. Star Wars is still technically releasing Legends material with the Old Republic MMO.
First, because this detail, as all of the past (aside from being one of the clones of the Big Boss) is literally bunch of text on his character card, released with the comic, which doesn't described anything of the brainwashing (how brutal it was or if it was painlessly generic). Second, the same text says that he got free soon after. Beyond this, nobody mentions this and this doesn't play any role in the comic, hell Liquid doesn't even hint or allude to this during the whole run of both miniseries'.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Nov 3rd 2019 at 11:20:18 AM
Gentle Laborer
Yo!
Liquid, my favorite Snake.
Durge
Yeah, frankly, Ash Gray is nowhere near Ali Al-Saachez or Desil Galette. He's a Serial Killer, sure, but war crimes are kinda... "typical" in the setting, that's why I think he should be Cut. And on the topic of Cuts, since I'm replaying the duology, I should also bring up Professor Richard James, one of my very first candidates. The Big Bad of the first game, Herbert, was a school principal who experimented on his own students for several years, while Richard is a high-ranking researcher and "mentor" for the Nebulous Evil Organization who betrayed some his own students and sent them to be "studied", one of whom was pregnant; the baby obviously would also be experimented on. My question is: Is Richard heinous enough in comparison to Herbert?
Welcome back! I'm fine with cutting Ash Gray, and Richard James should probably be cut too, given the fact that Herbert seems a lot worse.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Okay here is a expansion to my Noxymis write up. That was really the last write I made that I think is lacking.
- The Princess and the Knight: Noxymis is an evil wizard and former adviser to the King of Rosym. Angered by his banishment, Noxymis kidnaps Princess Jadelyn of of Reinhart and frames Rosym, in order to draw out Victoria. Noxymis kills the men he sent once the job is done. Noxymis then takes her hostage and uses her to get a powerful gem from Trina, before trying to kill her once he gets the gem anyways. Taking over Rosym, Noxymis kills the King, locks up the King's mother in the dungeon, and tries to start a war with Reinhart. He also attempts to use the gem to force Jadelyn to fall in love with him and then tries to kill her love Victoria again, when this fails. When a knight of Rosym frees Jadelyn, Noxymis has the man's own brother try to kill him. In the final battle, Noxymis tries to use a giant wave to kill everyone, before mortally wounding Victoria.
Edited by Bullman on Nov 3rd 2019 at 4:23:18 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
Liquid Snake Durge
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Liquid Snake and Fatman... It's so weird for me to type that.
"No running in the halls!"