During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Like, Criminal Minds. A dozen murders don't stand out. But several dozen (Merva, Vasher, Crossford attempted)? Yes. Or if they're children (Anita), or Cruel and Unusual Death (Mulllens)? Yes.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
So I have another SCP villain in mind. Originally I was gonna do two at once, the Hanged King being one of them after reconsidering his backstory in And So The Crows Laughed in which he started out as a mortal....but then I read a further backstory on him called Theology of a Snake which gives him an explicitly sympathetic past and grief over his dead wife; it did give The Ambassador of Alagadda more of a rapsheet - mainly manipulating and corrupting the King himself, usurping his royal court, and orchestrating his transformation into an Eldritch horror; The Hanged King himself remains The Puppet King all things considered.
That being said the other SCP candidate is a minor and obscure villain as far as the mythos is concerned despite their direct connection to the Scarlet King. He has only a few story appearances with most of them being passing mentions, but he gets A Day in the Limelight in Three Short Scenes About Death which expand on him more.
I present to you Jeser, the Prince of Many Faces.
Who is Jeser ? What does he do ?
So in the Scarlet King's conquest of the multiverse to destroy or enslave all of creation, his origin story Dust and Blood reveals that he has three other gods that serve him in his royal court; Jeser, the Hanged King, and Moloch. Besides the Hanged King's already established mitigating qualities, and Moloch's considerable lack of characterization, Jeser is giving more backstory and character in Three Short Scenes About Death.
Jeser, or as he's better known as "The Prince of Many Faces'' was/is a narcissistic god who ruled over dozens of dimensions and world alone. They where his to control and his to play with however he sees fit. One day the Scarlet King led his armies to do their usual conquest and due to a combination of pragmatism and ambition, Jeser soled his worlds out to be subjugated. He reasoned he'd get nothing but trouble by fighting the Scarlet King, and that the loss of a dozen worlds is nothing compared the countless others he could conquer.
Considering himself smarter than the other gods, Jeser worked his way into the Scarlet King's court and came out on top as being his second in command. Jeser wasn't happy with his new position, due to the considerable lack of power he has despite his high position, but he made the most of what he got. As the Scarlet King's right hand, Jeser was free to any pleasure he desired and to inflict pain whenever he wished. Other stories describe how he'd help in the Scarlet King's conquest of worlds by warping the wills of mortals and would like to sow chaos among his fellow squabbling gods in the King's court by bringing up old grudges.
However, Jeser secretly despised the Scarlet King for having power over him and as he watched the king torment his female and male concubines, Jeser would wish he was the one doing it. The Scarlet King apparently knew about Jeser's desire but didn't see him as a threat considering the power tier between them. Eventually the king hosted himself a birthday party in one of his grand halls, where he makes it clear to Jeser he knows his ambitions when one of the three Brothers Death, All-Death shows up (the Brothers Death three other beings on the SCP divine pantheon, who are considered the Scarlet King's rivals, and will have a part in his death). The Scarlet King tries to brag about his accomplishments to All-Death, ultimately intimidates the King. The Scarlet King than tells Jeser that even if he actually usurps him, even if he could take everything he had...that would include a target on his back by the Brothers Death.
Mitigating Qualities ?
None. Most of his appearances are descriptions of him in other stories causing chaos, tormenting mortals or fighting in the Scarlet King's wars, but he doesn't really get any characterization save for one story.
That story gives us a look at Jeser's past and personality, with it being told from his perspective. He was a Jerkass God who ruled over a dozen worlds before the Scarlet King took over, at which point he sold out his worlds to get a considerably comfy seat as the King's second in command, which he uses to help the King in his multiversal conquest and cause more mayhem. He desires to usurp the Scarlet King because he has more power over him; he looks at the King tormenting his conqubines and thinks to himself "I wish they were mine." His master knows about his desires but doesn't consider Jeser a threat to him, and tells him that even if he did usurp him, all this would get him is the attention of the Brothers Death.
So while he's a minor villain, unlike The Hanged King's established mitigating qualities, and Moloch's considerable lack of characterization, Jeser is a cosmic narcissist who threw his worlds under the bus so he could torment and help destroy hundreds more - not in the Scarlet King's name, but for his own ambitions. The only reason he doesn't actually conspire against Scarlet himself is because he can't and it wouldn't be worth the trouble.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
The Draftsman of Doom
"The Juice is Loose."
Lizzid people!
@Michaelistherealhero: Sure, I'll take you up on that offer.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Jeser.
About Ishtar, I mentioned looking around by in the character page. Basically, the series is a lighthearted, fanservicey comedy, so the heinous standard should not be too high. On top of that, Ishtar is one of the few really evil characters, so I would say she has no issues with the heinousness standard.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Jeser (funny, my brother was talking with me about SCP earlier today)
Lizzid people!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The purpose of the heinous standard is to list other villains' actions as well as any other character. That honestly doesn't help your case.
Jeser.
Edited by AustinDR on Oct 24th 2019 at 8:55:30 AM
The MILF Virus
Jesser
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Jeser.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Jeser. Seems anyone associated with courts in the SCP universe counts.
Gentle Laborer
Jeser was initially my first option when I proposed the Ambassador, switched to the Ambassador because of Jeser's lack of characterization outside of Tales, good to know that he has a personality after all, to him. Beast, mind on expanding the Ambassador's entry to add those crimes?
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Oct 24th 2019 at 2:27:31 PM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Jesser.
Now's about time for another horror film candidate.
What Is the Work?
The Child Eater is a 2016/17 indie horror film.
Helen Connolly is a pregnant young adult who is tasked with babysitting the child Lucas Parker. But, because something bad has to happen in a horror film, Lucas is kidnapped by a mysterious figure. It’s up to Helen and a bunch of other fodder to stop this figure and rescue Lucas before he gets killed.
Who Is he?
Robert Bowery, the titular child eater, is a blind but sinister, sadistic, yet mysterious boogeyman who feasts on children’s eyeballs. Short version, he’s an Expy of the Creeper.
What has he done?
Like the Creeper, Bowery’s a grotesque ghoul-looking dude who feasts on eyes. Why? Well, because he’s going blind, and he figured that eating eyes would help recover his sight. Why kids? Because the younger the eyes, the faster the recovery time. After all, "they're best when they're fresh." Having done this for over 25 years, Bowery would kidnap children and take them to an abandoned school, playing a game of hide and seek where the loser gets their eyes eaten; since he knows every part of the school, it’s quite an unfair game. Only one victim got away: a little girl named Ginger, who lost an eye to Bowery and got a fake one as she got older.
So one night, Bowery kidnaps Lucas from his house while Helen is babysitting him. Helen and her "boyfriend" Tom go out searching for him, and the two find a small shack in the woods. Inside, Helen finds a plate full of children’s teeth, while Tom gets his foot caught in a bear trap, getting his eyes eaten by Bowery. Helen finds the adult Ginger’s shack, where she notices loads of posters of missing children, all Bowery’s victims over the years. Ginger, who's trying to find Bowery and kill him, tells her the story about a magical, evil, ancient stork who would summon children and babies to him to peck their eyes out before eating them. Gee, wonder if that’ll come into play.
Cops are sent to stop Bowery, but he kills all three, feasting on their eyeballs and even biting out one’s tongue. Bowery tries several times to kill Helen, and with Lucas in hand, he puts a bag over his head and hunts him down, chuckling all the while. Later, Helen tackles the beast, but Bowery eats one of her eyeballs. Helen, with Ginger’s fake eyeball in hand, shoves the eye down Bowery’s throat and shoots him in the head several times. But, because horror films can’t let their villains die in peace, Bowery sinks into the forest. The now one-eyed Helen’s in the hospital, but as she gets out of her bed, she notices some black feathers falling from the ceiling. Suddenly, Bowery appears from behind her, black wings sprouting from his back as he says:
“They’re best when they’re fresh.”
It’s heavily implied that he killed Helen, Lucas, and all the surviving characters, and is last seen eating human flesh underneath a laughably tiny bridge.
So yeah, a Karma Houdini. Now I know how Tyk feels.
Redeeming Qualities?
Despite the fact that Bowery might have been some mythical stork thing (that apparently existed “long before Bowery went mad” or something like that so maybe he’s some kind of shapeshifter who turned into a ghoulish human), or some kind of inhuman creature the entire time, he still displays clear sadism while hunting for little Lucas, such as laughing while chasing him. Not only sadistically singing his song at the end before killing Helen, he occasionally displays a slight smile on his face during his kills. And he collects children’s teeth for no reason other than because he can. So yeah, he has a clear enough personality.
Even though he’s a literal monster, Bowery was never made of evil, nor has he even turned evil. His origins may be unknown, but his actions show off his character.
Heinousness?
Only villain, settles it.
Conclusion
I consider him a keep. Despite his confusing origin, one thing that’s made certain is that Bowery is nothing but a psychotic predator who, despite desiring to see, loves harming people of all ages, with a massive body count to show for it.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Oct 24th 2019 at 9:38:34 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Bowery.
And like I said, the only other evil characters are a Serial Rapist ally of hers who is not much worse, and a guy who wants to destroy the world.
Edited by MasterN on Oct 24th 2019 at 9:39:37 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Bowery
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes there Jack.
Wild Child
Bowery.
Cross-wired freak
to Jeser and Bowery
Also I came up with what I think is a good simile: Complete Monstets are like nutmeg
Listen to my podcast
Bowery. Just as vile as The Creeper.
The Draftsman of Doom
Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 24th 2019 at 1:43:27 PM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
For example, in a setting where murder and sexual assault are commonplace, an armed robber or a domestic abuser might fail the standard, while a cruel scientist who performs inhumane experiments on other people will stand out just fine.
In order to be approved as a monster, a candidate must either stand out as worse than everyone else, or unique.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 24th 2019 at 9:45:26 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.