During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Gentle Laborer
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Shadow Man
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Ardyn, sad to see him getting cut.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Sad to say it but to Ardyn.
Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 9th 2019 at 7:59:38 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
@Scrags: The hell is that in your icon? O__o
Cut Ardyn. Figured this would happen with the DLC.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Ardyn. Man, Square's on a roll with giving their most famous CM's last-minute redeeming qualities in spite of their monstrous personalities and actions. Can't wait to see them reveal to us that Kefka had a bunny he loved, or that Hojo was haunted by the visions of his deceased daughter who was never talked about until now.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Apr 9th 2019 at 8:04:10 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Cut Ardyn. Clearly he can't be a Complete Monster since he brought "Conditioned to Hate"
into existence.
In all seriousness, I feel like the DLC's ending gives added context to his refusal to accept Luna's sympathy, which was used as a point against him in the discussion that led to him being added as a CM. Luna's words and actions here seem to be implying that she wants to cure Ardyn of the Starscourge so he can end his torment. The problem here is that this promise is emptier than my job prospects. The gods WANT Ardyn to be the big bad monster and will go to any lengths to turn him into one. To her credit, Luna almost certainly doesn't know this. We definitely didn't know this. But Ardyn knows this. He knows that her offer to let him rest is completely hollow. He loses his shit and slaps her silly.
Cut Ardyn, we still have him as MB.
The Unknown Unknown
Sadly, cut Ardyn. He was a great CM while he lasted.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
@Tyk: Professor Monster as depicted by the Spider-Geddon event. Look forward to that probably this month.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Yea... Cut Ardyn
@Scraggle Your pfp looks like someone from JJBA and I love it :3
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Cut Ardyn. Still great villain
Maybe I'm biased because of my hatred for woobifying really evil villains, but I'd still say he's a keeper. His past, fucked up or not, doesn't come close to justifying how proudly sadistic and petty he is in the present, IMO.
I'd say cut Ardyn.
If I have a thing, it's Lyrical Adaptation guy.
Goku Black
Shadowman
Cut Ardyn.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cut Ardyn. Also, major props to Darin De Paul for his voice-acting; that laugh at the end is chilling to listen to.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Cut Ardin.
Also. I saw Shazam, wholesome film. Kylo did reserve it, right?
High Priest of.Chaos
Shadow Man
...so a war series got a supernatural.Greater-Scope Villain?
Also. My niche likely is somewhat obscure mangas, not too obscure to be totally irrelevant but usually obscure enough to having be ignored for this thread.
I am trying to pass to obscure western comics but...I'm having some issues (hah!) with it. Mainly that western comics rarely gets translated to spanish and that the text is too small to my eyes 
. I need a reading tablet.
And also, if Hamburger is the Game SMT guy, I guess that I can call myself the Other Media (the few that get translated) SMT guy.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Who did it? Because, well...The Stinger got me interesed.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Apr 9th 2019 at 11:07:44 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
No I wasnt the one who reserved it(Sadly) though I do wish I did.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Fried did so unless I'm mistaken.
Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 9th 2019 at 9:11:46 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
The wifi here sucks
Warthog reserved Shazam. I'm probably going to end up missing the discussion but I'm OK with that since I hated that movie.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
A total has-been.
Ardyn. Was never all that sold on him qualifying to start with tbh.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
I think Ardyn getting cut would be a huge motivation for Polar E Ping Sephiroth as an MB hehehe 😈😈😈
Anyways, back on topic... Since I finished Guilty Crown... I feel that some of the writeups on the baddies needs massive updates especially on Segai's case. Here's his writeup in question:
- Segai Waltz Makoto works for the GHQ Anti-Bodies as The Dragon to the aforementioned Shuichiro Keido. He is first introduced torturing a defenseless woman, and in that same scene also "talks" to a man he just hanged. With the help of a student, he captures and arrests Shu Ouma, then tries to manipulate Shu to turn against Funeral Parlor, with Shu retorting that people were killed right in front of his eyes by his men. Segai's reply was that they were unregistered citizens, completely uncaring whether or not it was a good reason to kill them. Segai also shows an absolute disregard for his own men; for example, when Shu uses his power to escape and a sniper under his command tries to stop him, Segai shoots him just so he doesn't interrupt him seeing Shu's power; and later, when he leads an assault on one of the last Funeral Parlor strongholds to spread the Apocalypse Virus further, kills his partner Dan Eagleman for saving Haruka. His life even ends with violence when trying to kill Ayase by hitting her with a truck, only to be stopped when Shu kills him with Shears of Life and Segai seems to enjoy it. A man who enjoys violence and carnage, whether he or someone else is the cause of it, underneath his polite mask lies a sadistic sociopath whose cruelty and depravity is matched only by his boss.
I watch the anime and there are several inaccuracies on Segai's writeup such as this: "He is first introduced torturing a defenseless woman"
And not only that, the writeup lacks the focus on some of his heinous crimes IMO like participating on Loop 7 massacre or his stunt on killing innocent civilians on one of Funeral Parlor stronghold. Sure, most of his atrocities were ordered by ficking Keido but its still there. And I'm not sure if this is mitigating or not but I remember that Segai orders his men to put their antidotes before he release the virus. And I dont recall that much if Segai does have a Chronic Backstabbing Disorder but thats just me.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Apr 10th 2019 at 12:30:15 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
If you feel like the write-up as some inaccuracies, you can re-write Segai's write-up to make it more accurate.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@G-Editor I'll see what I can do at a later time. But I need to think about what should I edit. That and I havent watch the OVA yet where Segai made another appearance at
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Shadow Man.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Shadow Man. At least the second CM for Robert Picardo, coming 35+ years after his first.
Cut Ardyn. Also, fuck his brother and fuck the gods.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Sadly, yes. Yes it does. Cut.