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Balzur, Angus, Ommadon

Balzur

Angus

Omegamon Ommadon

I understand killing animals isn't considered as bad as killing people, but frankly, I still see an an overlap between Chester V and characters that have counted. For instance, Percival Mc Leach mostly just killed animals as well, being a poacher and all, and the only person he tried to kill was Cody, the boy who was the main protagonist, so technically, he only tried to "kill the hero" on top of killing animals as well. Plus, I'd also say their methods are equally brutal; I don't see how trying to make mincemeat out of the protagonists by putting them through a food grinder is any less bad than trying to feed a boy to crocodiles. So again, while I respect your different opinions, I feel like you're still disqualifying him for the exact same reasons that have been considered valid enough to up-vote other characters.

Yeah, I know about that, but it still doesn't seem like a big enough difference to me to see Chester V as "tame" enough to not count while he does. Keep in mind I'm just trying to understand others' point of view better, so please don't think I'm trying to be stubborn or difficult.

Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Oct 15th 2018 at 8:40:01 AM

Percivial Knows their sapient though which yes does make it worse.

Edi T:

Thats not what I meant. If said non-human sapient species were sapient and like Huntsman or Xenox he really knew that and still wanted to wipe them out anyway than he'd count (Well no he wouldn't as he's still too goofy and Played for Laughs for a Cm trope but this is talking hypothetically ). But what Chester wants to do is and forgive me if this sounds cold but what people do to animals we eat all the time like sheep and chickens, etc. Like wantonly killing animals is indeed awful but it really isnt the same thing as killing something you know can think and react like an actual human being.

Edited by miraculous on Oct 15th 2018 at 5:28:50 AM

Ommadon.

Angus.

Balzur.

Edited by Beast on Oct 15th 2018 at 7:21:12 AM

Ah, I think I understand what you're saying now. Well, I'm glad I at least know exactly why he's viewed as less of a standout villain than the ones that were up-voted, but still managed to have noticeably comedic traits. Having looser standards myself for what makes a character "pure evil", I don't always see smaller differences like that, even if I try looking for them.

In the meantime, I have a new question; so hypothetically speaking, if no one else adds The Nutcracker and the Four Realms to the Discussion Dates/Sandbox list, reserves the right to start a discussion on anyone from it, and it just so happens I see it within the first two weeks it's out and think there's anyone worth discussing, will I be allowed to do an EP? Of course, someone else might very well reserve it between now and then (which is fine with me), and there's also a decent possibility there won't be anyone to discuss, but if this is how it turns out, then would that be alright?

Oh, thank you! It's a film I'm genuinely interested in seeing, as well as one I'm hoping will turn out pretty good, so hopefully, I'll get to see it within the first two weeks of its release. If I haven't, I'll let people know in a post here on the 16th of November, and if I have, but don't think there's anyone worth discussing, I will post that too for clarification. So I guess it's extremely likely I'll be posting something that day, but what type of post it'll be depends on the situation, ha ha!

Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Oct 15th 2018 at 12:01:16 PM

Yeah, same reason Cruella doesn't count. WE know the dogs are sapient, but she doesn't.

Balzur, Angus Broon, and Ommadon

I will put the Nutcracker on the list and your name there. You just reserved it.

Edited by emperors on Oct 15th 2018 at 6:06:29 AM

Also, for Percival, there's the fact that he not only tries to kill a kid (who isn't the hero), but tries to kill him in a cruel way, and only after toying with him.

Uh...Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers: Shattered Grid list Lord Drakkon and links to the Main series page. The issue is, he isn't there.

Delete it until is uploaded or we let it?

Whoops. I added that, but forgot to delete that when I realized Drakkon was going next week

I just deleted it.

Yeah, but what Chester V attempted wasn't any better; he tried to shred Flint's friends alive by putting them through a food grinder like he was going to do with the "Foodimals", and I believe he even attempted to do it after Flint gave into his demands. Don't get me wrong, I'm not underestimating how heinous Percival Mc Leach is and the way he went about trying to kill a child. It's more that I think with respect to trying to kill people, and doing it in an abnormally cruel and and gruesome way (especially for such a lighthearted and family-oriented film), Chester V's probably on the same tier as him, even if he doesn't count.

Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Oct 15th 2018 at 10:17:56 AM

At this point, I feel Chester V should be put on the Never Again list.

Agreed. Why are we still having this discussion? Chester doesn't count. End of story. Move on already.

Wait are we still discussing this ? Why ?

To Ommadon. Funny, about three years ago I deleted a quote from the quotes page because it came off more as Ommadon being a CM rather than Bryagh. Guess that won't be a problem now, lol

Ugh, you're all misinterpreting me. I only posted about it again because ACW brought up how Percival Mc Leach tried to kill a child as if it sets him apart from Chester V, and I happen to think the way Chester V tried to kill the protagonists wasn't lacking in comparison. Therefore, I don't think that's the exact reason that he doesn't count. I'm not even sure that counts as continuing the discussion; it's just reiterating my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. Don't interpret it as trying to push for his inclusion. I even said at the beginning I wasn't trying to change anyone's mind; I was hoping to get some clarification, I got it, then someone gave an additional reason why they thought another character was worse, and I simply reiterated why I think he's on the same level in terms of heinousness even if he doesn't count. That's all.

I also thinks it's a little mean to act like these discussions are a waste of time and space. They're genuinely healthy discussions that can help both myself and others understand certain details of the trope's criteria better, as well as the opinions of those who are more experienced here. That's a good thing, isn't it?

Well, I'm sorry then. However, for what it's worth, this was actually very helpful for me since before this, I didn't feel like he was discussed enough to understand how he was truly set apart from other somewhat similar characters that qualify despite having comedic traits, t least in other's opinions Now I feel like I do, and this might very well help other people who have similar burning questions about other characters they think count for similar reasons.

Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Oct 15th 2018 at 11:59:34 AM

There's nothing wrong with a discussion. The problem is you're not providing anything new.

Ommadon.

Ommadon

Here's a work that's technically horror. I guess. Trying to be at least somewhat appropriate for the month.

What Is the Work?

The Magic Serpent (or as it’s also called, Battle of the Dragons) is a 1966 period piece fantasy kaiju movie made by Toei based on Japanese folklore

A young boy named Ogata “Jiraiya” Ikazuchimaru’s royal parents are killed by an evil general who takes over his clan and kingdom. Now a teenager, Ikazuchimaru finds out about his backstory and—together with a woman named Tsunade who’s looking for her long-lost father—heads on an adventure to stop evil and bring peace to the land.

I will be presenting two easy keepers from this flick, so without further ado, here’s the first candidate.

Who Is he?

Daijo Yu{u}ki is the evil ruler of the Omi Kingdom, and the main villain of the movie.

What has he done?

Having served as the benevolent Lord Ogata Samanosuke’s power-hungry general, he had wanted to rule the clan himself. One night at Ogata Castle, he has his ninjas kill the castle’s soldiers and burn their houses down. This wakes Ogata, who wants to know what’s going on. Daijo arrives at Ogata’s house to tell him that traitors are attacking the fortress and have teamed up with ninjas to do so. With Ogata wondering who’s behind the attacks, Daijo pulls a Captain America (1990) and reveals himself to be the mastermind, immediately slashing Ogata, with the lord wanting to save his son Ikazuchimaru. His main henchman Orochimaru appears to kill Ogata’s wife, with Daijo ordering him to kill Ikazuchimaru so that no future problems will arise, and that he should show no mercy to the child. Given how we only have an hour and twenty minutes left of this movie, this obviously fails.

As the iron fisted dictator of the land, he takes women from multiple villages to be added to his harem, and orders the death of the now-teenage Ikazuchimaru, having Orochimaru’s ninjas and his own soldiers search various villages for him. With a seething hatred for shapeshifting martial artist Dojin Hiki, he sends Orochimaru to kill him, though it's through him where he finds out that Ikazuchimaru’s still alive.

When Ikazuchimaru manages to use his super strength to save a young farmer boy named Koshirota from a runaway cart, one of Daijo’s spies notices the event and tells the guards. The boy’s father, Zenbei, along with his daughter Saki (who looks to be a young adult), take Ikazuchimaru along with them. Arriving at another village, the guards notice Ikazuchimaru and friends, and decide to hold them up at the village entrance. While they manage to make it past security and allow Ikazuchimaru to escape, that doesn’t stop Daijo from leading a raid on the village in his search for Ikazuchimaru. There, he orders Koshirota and Saki to be tortured, kills Zenbei in front of his kids for trying to save them, and orders the kids to be beheaded in front of everyone in the village as a lesson for anyone who dares try and help Ikazuchimaru, be it woman or child. The execution is interrupted by Ikazuchimaru, who uses his powers to summon the spirits of the people Daijo killed (about eight, maybe more), before Ikazuchimaru himself shows up to fuck with them. The arrival of Orochimaru leads to Ikazuchimaru leaving with Koshirota, though Orochimaru manages to hold Saki hostage and give her to Daijo, who makes her one of his sex slaves.

So Daijo doesn’t show up again until the climax, where he’s cuddled up against Saki and his women while drunk and watching a dance recital at his castle. The performance is interrupted when Ikazuchimaru arrives transformed as a giant horned toad, storming the castle. With Ikazuchimaru killing his men and turning back to a human, Daijo, now cornered, gets on his knees to beg for his life, promising to surrender as he goes for his dagger. Thankfully, Ikazuchimaru kills him before he can capitalize on that tactic.

Redeeming Qualities?

Zilch.

Heinousness?

His actions kickstart the plot, along with having a decently high bodycount.

Conclusion

An easy keep.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Oct 15th 2018 at 8:37:32 AM

Got hit with an irony stick lately, spent some time looking up new candidates for the Halloween season, and keep running into those I decided not to bring up.

1. The Entity - Apparently was discussed before I joined the thread and there's no proof that it isn't Made of Evil - especially since it thinks it's actually Freddy which further hinders it agency.

2. Three True Blood candidates for not matching up to the jacked up heinous standard and two of them having an excuse that may hold weight. They are Franklin, Lorena and Warlow (mostly for his utter subversion of being an Anti-Villain or Byronic Hero but even then the points still stand against him).

3. Dante's Satan...the video game version. Brought him up years ago but don't have any new arguments for him.

4. This Creepypasta/Nosleep killer from A Story to Scare My Son due to so much ambiguity within the story. Still one of the few things from NoSleep to genuinely unnerve me, especially Chilling Tales reading for it on YouTube.

That also leaves three fanfic villains that don't count for different reason and two fics that I'm looking out for, but I'm having a correspondence with one of the writers so I think there might be a writers bias going on.

There's also a Creepypasta villain from The Man That Monsters Fear (unfortunately not Doom (2016) based Creepypasta). Only issue is his crimes are revealed after he dies and we don't learn to much about him.

Daijo

Daijo

for Daijo Yuuki.