During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Barclyss. Leaning on Kail but I'll need to think on him some more. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Jellyjam.
Gray, Barclyss and Kali
Jellyjam
Reading over Kail I'll say yea, sounds like he's enough of a dick on to himself and flat but not generic.
Wild Child
Yeah, no to Jellyjam. I've read the book (albeit years ago); while Jellyjam is heinous enough, it's characterization isn't really sufficient. That effort-post really exaggerates his character; in the story, he's just portrayed as a disgusting blob who never even talks. Things like "playing on the childrens' self-confidence and fears of being inadequate" and "advertising himself as a friendly cartoon mascot to appeal to more of his young victims" is just attaching character traits that aren't made clear In-Universe. The thing with other monsters like the Beldam and Pennywise is that those stories put more effort into personifying them as monsters, both figuratively and literally.
Why so serious?
Got another effort post for the thread.
What’s the work?
Vigilante: My Hero Academia Illegals is a spin-off of the manga, My Hero Academia, taking place a few years before the events of the manga. The spin-off stars 19 year old Koichi Haimawari, a college student whose used his quirk of sliding on the ground at relatively high speeds to do as much good as he believes he can do (picking up trash, returning dropped items, giving people rides on top of him, etc) before he eventually encounters the quirkless vigilante, Knuckle Duster, and by a series of unfortunate events, he finds himself roped into becoming his apprentice (which he eventually accepts).
Koichi, going by the name “The Crawler”, Knuckle Duster, and illegal street idol who goes by the name Pop Step go around without hero licenses stopping crimes, and trying to find out the source of circulation for a mysterious drug known as “Trigger”, which either gives, or amplifies people’s quirks, often at the cost of making them go insane. And in a universe where a Serial Killer of heroes, a child-torturing Yakuza, and a Psychopathic Manchild who wants to destroy society all have redeeming qualities, I think I found the first CM in the franchise.
A bee.
Who is she? What does she do?
The bee, going by the name Kuin Hachisuka, is one of the dealers for the drug, Trigger. She has the quirk, Queen Bee, allowing her to create bees with syringes for stingers. With this, she’s capable of using her bees to transport the drug and infect it into unwilling civilians. In her debut chapter, she infects several innocent civilians with the drug, causing at least seven people to go on a rampage. It’s also shown that this is extremely painful for the people infected as well, one man screaming as he’s set on fire from his own quirk, and another having large amounts of his blood burst out of his arms.
Prior to the story, Kuin invaded the brains of several people, taking over their bodies and minds to use for her own purposes, and whenever she was done with them, left them to die. At one point, she did this to Knuckle Duster’s wife (who eventually dies) and later on, Knuckle Duster’s daughter, Tamao Oguro. Posing as an eccentric high school girl, Kuin regularly does drug dealing and causes chaos for her own amusement. It’s also revealed that whenever she needs a roof over her head, she goes to a house, kills the people who live there, and take over. She’s shown jokingly acting as if the corpses of a couple she recently killed with her bees are her parents before stating that she’s bored and is thinking about “moving houses” again.
When not doing drugs, Kuin regularly commits crimes For the Evulz. After giving the Hero Killer Stain (then known as the vigilante, Stendhal) the blood of high ranking mafia members he’s after, she convinces him to try and murder three young delinquents who previously went on a rampage from Trigger. When Stendhal comes face to face with one of the delinquents, Souga Kugizaki, Kuin offers Souga vials of Trigger to make the carnage more interesting, forcibly injecting it into him when he refuses. When Kuin finds out that Souga is looking for her to deliver a message from Knuckle Duster, she possesses a student in her class that she pretended to be friends with, has her meet up with Souga, and has bees burst out of her body (implied to be from her vagina. Yeesh) to attack him, wounding if not killing her “friend”.
Another time she decided to cause havoc for no reason other than her enjoyment was when she infects a cat with Trigger, causing it to gain a quirk that takes over a bus filled with passengers. She then takes over the cat, as a result, taking over the bus, to cause it to crash and kill the passengers. When the hero Ingenium (real name Tensei Iida) stops the bus and evacuates the passengers, she talks about how boring it would be to have no casualties, and makes the cat-bus monster take back a college student who was on the bus, Makoto Tsukauchi, and attempts to have it drive into the ocean, but the combined efforts of Koichi and Tensei thwart this as well.
She also pretends to befriend a boy named Teruo Unagisawa, who previously was infected with Trigger to become an eel monster, so that she can kidnap him, and experiment on him with Trigger, making him a far more dangerous monster than before, She then decides to have him cause a blackout during a concert that Pop Step is in, intending to infect everybody at the concert with Trigger.
Before this can happen, Knuckle Duster confronts her. After a failed attempt of escaping him, and later on injecting the electric eel quirk inside Tamao’s body to fight against Knuckle Duster, Kuin creates multiple bomb bees in a last ditch effort to take him out, knowing that the detonation of the bomb bees will kill Tamao. Knuckle Duster manages to temporarily stop Tamao’s heart with high voltage tasers (he successfully revives her later on thankfully) causing the worker bees to scatter out of her body. Knuckle Duster than grabs Kuin’s true form, a queen bee with a maggot-like appendage, throws her in the air, and kills her (and all but one of her worker bees) with an explosive.
Heinous by the standards of the story?
Oh yeah. With the countless amount of people she tortured and/or had them go on a rampage by having them infected with Trigger, and the huge amounts of damage she intended to cause easily makes her the most heinous character in the spin-off. Even stacked with villains in the mainline manga, Kuin Hachisuka has one of the highest intended body counts, and with having her bees brutally killing people from the inside out and torturing them with Trigger, she definitely makes a mark.
Freudian Excuse? Any other mitigating factors?
None. She might be a bee, but it’s shown that she’s more than capable of thinking like a human being, the only exception being when Knuckle Duster fried her brain with his tasers. She calls the bees she creates her "babies" but seeing as how she frequently detonated them with the only concern being that it would damage the host body, it's clear Kuin doesn't care about them.
Final Thoughts?
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Aug 17th 2018 at 10:46:59 AM
Yes to Kuin.
Edited by Knack on Aug 17th 2018 at 7:08:26 AM
To Kuin
I Still can’t believe Overhaul didn’t make the cut. What about Muscular is he capable of qualifying since I’ve heard he was a nasty dude?
Edited by G-Editor on Aug 17th 2018 at 4:11:25 AM
King Jellyjam? Sounds like a Spongebob Squarepants character. Definite there.
While Muscular is a sadistic bastard, almost all of his crimes are offscreen villainy. Onscreen, he tries to kill Midoriya and the young boy of two heroes he killed. That's it.
@G-Editor Nasty in personality but isn't heinous enough. He kills two people and that's it.
Edited by Knack on Aug 17th 2018 at 7:16:30 AM
Kail and Kuin.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Muscular isn't heinous enough, he has few onscreen crimes before being defeated. He's a pretty standard Blood Knight.
Edited by TommyFresh on Aug 17th 2018 at 7:14:30 AM
Lizzid people!
Yes to Kuin, Barclyss, Kail and President Gray.
No to Bais.
- Ghostbusters: In the mini series Answer The Call based on the 2016 Ghostbusters, Dr. Kruger was a Mad Scientist active in the 1900s who was obsessed with fear. Kruger would kidnap innocent people and experiment on them, torturing them with their fears, often resulting in their deaths. After Kruger died, the city sealed the building he was living in, trapping his spirit there. Decades later, the city decided to develop Kruger's building and Kruger used the ghost of a young boy he killed to lure the Ghostbusters to his building. The Ghostbusters deal with the problem, but Kruger posses Dr. Yates and manages to escape his building. Kruger escapes from the Ghostbusters and takes over the Empire State Building. The Ghostbusters confront Kruger, but he uses his powers to expose them to their worst nightmares. Kruger exposes more citizens of New York to their nightmares to gain more power. Ultimately Dr. Kruger plans to merge the world with his personal nightmare realm, wanting to torment humanity with its fears and rule this new world as a god.
Edited by Overlord on Aug 17th 2018 at 9:50:02 AM
Goku Black
Presdient Gray (Much easier decision on him than Clancy), Barclyss, Kali and Kuin
Jellyjam
The MILF Virus
After checking our Ar Nosurge and loving it, I decided to check the story of the prequel game, Ciel Nosurge and found our candidate, Revelt.
Who is he and what does he do?
Revelt is the head of Tenmon, one of the two leading groups of the world of Ra Ciela through technology and the main supporter for Ion's election as empress. Revelt shows himself to be a shrewd and pragmatic man who despite doing moral dubious things is always thought doing what's best for humanity. However Revelt is not as well-intentional as he sounds, being a power hungry maniac with a deep racism against Genoms, a race that co-exist with humans.
His first move to gain power was to produce the perfect candidate as empress through any means possible. First he uses experiments to forcibly seperate his daughter's body and soul so that the soul of his perfect candidate could take it over and be in a position of power due to being the father of one of candidates. He then takes the soul of Ion and place her in her daughter's body to tortures her mentally and physically to shape her as a powerful songstress and a pawn for his scheme. He then uses his other daughter Renall to keep Ion in check by pretending to be her friend and selling her out if she ever attempts to escape her imprisonment. Once Ion became ready to be the next candidate, he released her and presented her to become the next leader.
When Ion started to befriend her fellow rival and candidate Kanon, Revelt attempted to kill them both for going against the plan and then using his organization's power to take over Ra Ciela during the insuring chaos. This was averted however when Ion saw this through her overseer ability in order to see the future and revokes her position towards Tenmon. This lead to Tenmon losing face, and Renall to rebel against Revelt by taking over the organization. Revelt in his anger and hatred for losing his power began his crusade of actions that lead to the fall of Ra Ciela.
First our of spite, Revelt destroys the main reactor of his group which lead to a chain of events where machines made by them began blowing up or malfunctioning. The world of Ra Ciela was reliant on these which cause massive panic and complete distrust towards the government. When Ion and Kanon was able to quell the panic using the help of the genomes, Revelt starts to truly lose it.
Revelt now believing the world should be destroyed due to it's co-existence with the genomes, he plans to cast a song spell to teleport himself and his followers towards a new planet using the population as sacrifice for the spell. This would lead to Ra Ciela being destroyed and it's inhabitants killed which is his plan. When the genomes tried to fight back against Revelt's plan, Revelt using anti-genome weapons to massacre them and taunt them about their impending demise. His plan is foiled and Revelt in his final moments decide to explode the reactor containing the energy he was planning to use to kill himself, and the genomes and Kanon out of spite which lead to the world reaching it's end due to the side-effects of the explosions.
Heinousness:
A power hungry asshole who would destroy his own planet, and kill genomes and his own people just because they didn't do what he wants. He also done completely reprehensible acts to his own daughters, seperating Nay's soul from her body to use it to inhabit a better candidate and forcing his own daughter to betray her own friends.
Mitigating Factor:
Nothing, he's so called propaganda movement for humanity is nothing more but a lie especially considering he was planning to wipe out the humans not loyal to him.
Final Verdict:
An easy keeper.
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, the reality where Pericles isn't tainted by the entity is downright one of the FUNNIEST scenes of the whole series.
On that note, has Udo Kier played a CM? I'm thinking yes.
Barclyss; weak Kali; Kuin (our first bee CM; also, holy crap Overhaul has a WEIRD Even Evil Has Loved Ones); Revelt.
Goku Black
Udo Kier played Doctor Peter Glucksbringer Straub in Call of Duty: WWII
Revelt
Edited by miraculous on Aug 18th 2018 at 2:46:37 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The MILF Virus
By the way since Ciel Nosurge and Ar Nosurge are direct sequels, we should put their entree pages under EXA_PICO.
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
to Kali and Revelt.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
After giving it some more thought, I'm starting to think that among the candidates from Smallville I suggested, Sean Kelvin is actually among the least likely to qualify. After he gains his power, I think all he actually gets around to doing is murder his girlfriend for her body heat, and then tries to do the same to Chloe, and maybe Clark's mother (as well as fight Clark himself, of course). I thought there might have been an implication that he already had more victims that were young, attractive females, but after reading through some synopsis' on his character, I'm now pretty much positive that's not the case, which makes his actual credentials quite minimal. That being said, I still think there's a decent chance that James and Bob qualify, and maybe a couple of the others to a lesser extent. Plus, my point on Braniac's possible disqualification still stands. I'm starting to worry that there aren't many other people here who have actually seen Smallville since no one seems to have commented on any of those characters yet.
Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Aug 18th 2018 at 7:42:03 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
As a penance of not proposing Barclyss, I think I found a little bit suitable replacement for it. And yes, I've finished skimming both Phantasy Star and it's sequel, Phantasy Star IV and I'll try at my best to EP this character. You'll be the judge if he qualifies or not. Without further ado, let's begin!
What's the Work
Phantasy Star is one of the video games created by Sega and probably considered to be one of the most influential games of all time. Today I will discuss the 4th entry of the series as this is the one that I finished through the end (Along with the original Phantasy Star). The story of Phantasy Star mostly takes place of Algol Solar System which consisted of three planets: Palma, Motavia and Drezoris. And across thousands of years, most of the heroes from Algol System tries to battle the evil that threatens them known as the Dark Force.
In the 4th and final entry of the original series, the story focuses on two bounty hunters, Chaz Ashley and Alys Brangwyn who were summoned by the principal from the Motavia Academy because of the monster infestation that they had in the academy. Needless to say, after the duo exterminate the monsters, it was revealed that the principal is acting strange due to a dark figure that's threatening him. And the dark figure himself is revealed to be a man called Zio...
Who is He/What Has He Done
Zio is the dark figure that first appeared in the flashbacks of the principal's memories. It was revealed that he's the one behind the disappearance of the Birth Valley Expedition team that went into Zema. by turning all of them into a stone. When the Principal tries to sent the rescue team towards Zema, Zio appears before him, threatening the Principal that he will petrify them into becoming a stone if the principal tries to sent anyone into the Birth Valley.
Needless to say, Alys and her companions, Chaz and one of the Professor of Motavia Academy, Hahn, embark on a journey into Zema and it was revealed that all of the residents in there have been turned into stones thanks to Zio. Because of this, Alys and her companions tries to find an elixir that can cure the townsfolk in Molcum. However, when they're arrived in there, the town is ravaged by Zio. And after Alys met one of her companions, Rune Walsh, the latter tells them that the elixir existed in Tonoe. After they arrived in Tonoe, it was also revealed that one of the characters called Gryz wants to seek vengeance after Zio ravages Molchum that kills his family.
After Alys and co. went into Zema and cures most of it's inhabitants, it was revealed that Motavia has experienced a weird ecosystem that breeds harmful monsters. As a result, Alys come with an idea that they need to shut down a Power Plant known as "Nurvus" in order to prevent more casualties. However, the android that could stop Nurvus, Demi, is revealed to be taken as a hostage by Zio and it's up to them to save her. It was also revealed that Zio ravages other towns in Motavia that appears in Phantasy Star II such as Arima, Kueri, Oputa and Paseo and it was also revealed that Zio destroy the bridge that could connect to other towns such as Aiedo by summoning a meteorite that resulted one of the village is uninhabitable (Even though the meteorite itself is revealed to be one of the Spaceship that escaped from Parma a thousand years ago, I digress).
When they went into a town named Kandary, it was revealed that Zio build a cult on there and brainwash some of the population under a guise of a benevolent leader that says the End of the World will come soon and preaches that he will cleanse the land and establish an utopia made up only the finest people in the land. In reality, he's just going to purge all the life in Motavia so that he could fulfill what his god desired.
When Alys and co. tried to rescue Demi in Zio's fort and cut Demi from her restraints, Zio appears before them and fights against them. In an ensuing fight, Zio tries to kill Chaz by releasing a Black Energy Wave which resulted Alys getting mortally wounded. As a result, the group then forces to retreat and tried to find Rune, who is after a treasure called Psycho Wand so that he could penetrate the barrier on Zio's fort that could lead the heroes into Nurvus.
Needless to say, after Alys takes a blow from Zio's Black Energy Wave, she dies peacefully which resulted of Chaz tries to seek vengeance towards Zio. After they went into Nurvus, Zio appears before them and tries to engage a battle against them. Fortunately, he was defeated by Chaz and co. and his soul was dissolved into a white light. Killing him for good.
Heinous Standard
Okee-Dokee, here's the breaking point if Zio could qualifies to this trope or not. The heinous standard in there is a bit high. Why you may ask? There are some characters that contributes to heinous standard if you count the original tetralogy such as The Profound Darkness/The Dark Force, who is the one behind all of the misery towards the story by causing some disasters or behind the evil cult that's happening in the game, King La Shiec who is an oppresive dictator towards Algo, kills the heroine's brother in the first game and when reincarnated in PS 4, tries to turned the heroes into soulless being that could never leave his castle. And then there's the fact that the main characters in Phantasy Star II engages in battle between the selfish and greedy earthmen which resulted the main planet, Palma getting blown up which kills some of the humanity.
However, I think Zio passes the heinous standard. He ravages other towns and brainwash some people to join his own cult. And not only that, I think believe it or not, that petrifying people into stone could be considered one of the most unique crimes in the game, at least for me. Not only that, he also scores on the personal level when it comes to his crimes. I mean, he's the one who murdered Gryz's family to the point he wants to seek revenge towards Zio and he's also responsible for one of the most tearjerking and realistic moment of the main character's death which says something. So yeah... You'll be the judge on him.
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors
Here's another one that could make him tricky to qualify: You may say that him worshipping Dark Force could screws his agency. However, I'm not seeing it because Zio is a religious fanatic who tries to appease his own god to satisfy his desire and he loves to cause death and destruction on Motavia on his own volition and he's also able to manipulate and brainwash some of the people to become the member of his cult and lie to them by preaching that he will usher a new world that is filled with finest people when in reality he's just going to destroy all of the Motavia anyway. So yeah... Aside from that. He has no redeeming qualities to speak of.
Final Verdict
You'll be the judge if he qualifies or not. I believe that given the long run of the franchise and spawned other spin-off, there are some more keepers that got untouched upon. I was thinking to propose La Shiec, but I'm not sure if he could qualify for this trope or not. Until then, thoughts?
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Yes to Kail. If he does have enough apparent characterization he is able to count. Arem lord of slaughter was similar. Didn't have complex characterization but did have enough.
No to King Jellyjam.
Edited by Knack on Aug 17th 2018 at 5:34:14 AM