During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Mother Brain, but just barely.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
on Mother Brain. Your Well-Intentioned Extremist argument falls flat; it doesn't matter if she is wrong about humanity but if she truly believes she's making the world a better place in general, which she seems to.
Also, with AI in general, I feel like agency needs to be proven. What was she built for and why is she evil?
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Nope to Brain. Still not convinced.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I'm leaning towards for Mother Brain.
The Unknown
Mother Brain from Chrono Trigger.
Mother Brain from Chrono Trigger
to Mother Brain. to Ruechang, Culley, Molech, and Magellan. I'll also agree with cutting that Deathstalker example.
- The Mad Monster: Dr. Lorenzo Cameron is a Mad Scientist who was ostracized by his peers for wanting to create werewolves via blood transfusion. Plotting vengeance, he experiments on his gardener Petro to give him lycanthropy. Declaring his experiments a success after his werewolf slaughters a child, Cameron returns to his hometown for a Roaring Rampage of Revenge. After killing the first professor, Cameron notices that Wolf!Petro is starting to break control. Only not killing Petro due to needing him for the scheme, Cameron orders him to cause a car crash, mortally wounding another of his targets. Cameron plans to kill three more professors, but Wolf!Petro turns on and kills him before he can do so.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Decent writeup overall but axe the spoiler. No need to note that the villain dies in a film released under the Hays Code.
to Magellan and Molech.
I'll remove it on the drafts page.
EDIT: It was already removed. ACW, would you mind removing the tags?
edited 14th Sep '17 3:43:18 PM by DemonDuckofDoom
I have a few effort posts coming up, but I figure I might as well ask which one you guys are more interested in reading about first. One character is another Warcraft candidate whereas the other two are from a Diablo-style isometric action rpg called Path of Exile. Does anyone have a preference to which to do first?
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Speaking of Chrono Trigger, Queen Zeal could have been a decent candidate. However, it’s unclear if drawing power from Lavos affects her moral agency and according to the wiki someone says, after her boss fight, that she goes back to being a normal human… what? I’ve no recollection of this. Then again, I’ve only played the DS version, so maybe this is a case of SNES era censorship of death. But I could be wrong. But her moral agency is the real barrier, I'd say. I think she's heinous enough, off the top of my head.
If its a choice, I'd say Warcraft first. Purely cause I'm curious who it is.
Are you planning to do all your write ups (assuming they all pass that is) at once?
edited 14th Sep '17 3:58:13 PM by MGD107
With new information presented in the Legion expansion, I'm certain now that Archimonde counts and would make for a good replacement for Kil'jaeden after he got cut.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I say Path of Exile.
BTW, DDD, I just changed it to "Cameron later plans to kill three more professors."
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Interesting, I look forward to reading it.
By the way, I just realised that writing "assuming they all pass" sounds a little condescending. I'm sorry, that was not my intention.
Nobody counts in the original Chrono Trigger. Magus has sympathetic traits, Zeal's got agency issues, MB's got genuine delusions of utopia, Lavos is an incomprehensible abomination, and nobody else is heinous enough. I don't know what the point really is in discussing it.
edited 14th Sep '17 4:07:55 PM by Scraggle
to Magellan and Molech.
Isn't Queen Zeals issue the same as Lusamine in why they both don't count?
Anyway time for some votes on effortposts that I missed out on
Magellan, Baron Ironblood and Ruechang.
Honestly, you can go to the Path of Exile nightmare fuel page and probably guess correctly who my two candidates will be from that game.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Oh, this
◊ darling baby? That big teddy bear couldn't hurt a fly.
Lore: I'd say go for Warcraft first myself
