During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Not entirely. He thinks he fostered Doffy to make him a King and as a result he's his family. Law calls him out for...being delusional
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Maegor for me
I just saw 2000's Tom Sawyer right here and I have to say that Joe's actions are quite violent and sadistic for an animated movie. So my vote is still
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Goddammit people 
When requesting cuts for the CM pages, please don't forget to remove the entry from the work's YMMV page as well.
Meanwhile, for Diavolo, found this under his character page:
- ...He also spared his girlfriend Donatella, whom he told many lies to about his life and had a child with, and then took a photo of her and let her keep it.
edited 28th Jun '15 5:42:40 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
It looks like there's another candidate from a Chuck Norris "classic", Hellbound. Basically it's Norris doing End of Days (or rather the reverse, seeing as how Ahnold fought the devil 5 years later), trying to stop Satan's emissary Prosatanos from bringing about Armageddon.
Who is Prosatanos? What has he done?
Prosatanos is, as said, a demon/fallen angel with allegiance to the Devil. During the Crusades he kidnaps Richard the Lionheart's baby son to sacrifice him, as the ritual to bring about Hell on Earth requires a christian king's blood. Richard and his knights rescue the prince, break Prosatanos's cepter into nine pieces, and seal Prosatanos himself inside a tomb. He doesn't get out until 1951, when he kills two tomb raiders who ignored every warning sign. For the next several decades he sets himself up as an archeologist by the name of Lockley to recover the pieces of his cepter. Along the way he murders the priests assigned to protect the pieces, including ripping out a Rabbi's heart, throwing an old monk out of a moving train, and crushing a blind man's skull. He also kills a prostitute who witnessed one of his murders by shoving her out a 10-story window and kills his human contact to the antiquities trade when he becomes a liability because Norris questioned him. In the climax he kidnaps his assistant (Norris' sort-of Love Interest), who it turns out is descended from nobility, to sacrifice her in Satan's name and start Armageddon.
Heinous by the standards of the story?
The only other villains are Prosatanos's mooks, so he easily passes.
Freudian Excuse or redeeming traits?
No excuse. The closest Prosatanos ever gets to a redeeming trait is when Norris first confronts him after he murders the Rabbi. He tells Norris that he'll let him live if he forgets what he's seen before throwing the Rabbi's heart at Norris, prompting Norris to open fire. It seems more like he's mocking him than anything we would count as actually redeeming, and since he's already planning to destroy the whole world it's a moot point anyway.
Conclusion?
He fits in well with the rest of the "Action Hero fights supernatural evil CMs", so easy keep.
edited 28th Jun '15 6:20:57 AM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
RIP Toriyama
Was Black Doom ever upvoted? I noticed he was listed on the YMMV page, but I could have sworn he was voted a cut...
As for Injurin' Joe;
Keep: Irene; Beast; Very Melon; ST 89; A New Man; Austin DR; emperors
Cut: Occasional Exister; bobg
So that's 7-2. Does that warrant a write-up? Any more votes would be appreciated.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
How much personality does Prosatanos have? He seems like he might be a GDV. If, however, we accept he was mocking Norris, then I think that's enough for me to vote .
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Donatella (for that's her name) died pining for Diavolo (who she'd only known under an alias) after he promised to find her, but never even tried to - I wouldn't call that love.
He didn't "spare" her either - they met while she was vacationing in his town, and it wasn't until a couple of years later that he started killing people to erase his past, so he wouldn't have had a chance to kill her.
edited 28th Jun '15 6:57:50 AM by BigglesTh9
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Why doesn't Prostantos try to kill Richard instead of killing the baby?
As for Black Doom, he's here.
He's not; that label gets thrown around way too easily around these parts. He does have a lot of dialogue, especially when he's masquerading as a archeologist. It's because Complete Monster by definition has no characterization beyond "evil and then some more evil" that they're often seen as simplistic.
Richard is a Badass knight with a big sword. A baby is... well, a baby.
edited 28th Jun '15 7:20:12 AM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
RIP Toriyama
Alright, just checking.
Oh, and to Prosatanos
edited 28th Jun '15 7:21:49 AM by Ravok
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
to Prosatanos. For a GDV he has quite personality.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Prostantos I guess. Somewhat underwhelming, but no reason for him not to count.
Prosatanos
Prosatanos
Yes to Prosatanos. I've seen that one!
ACW: Diavolo doesn't have redeeming qualities then. He might have once cared for his lover and their child, but his now grown daughter realizes Diavolo wants to kill her to erase all his past ties. He's lost them.
"There was one guy who made it his life's mission to get Hades off this list, and he succeeded because last I checked the there was one more vote in favor of cutting him than there was for keeping him."
very melon, if you've want to talk something with me, say it to my face next time.
If the subject needs to be discussed fine with me.
Once again, he's not treated with an aura of fear even during the final confrontation he and pit stop their battle to lightly crack jokes with eachother, unlike other Faux Affably Evil villains.
In a game, where there is consistently no Fourth Wall, he directly compliments Pit, and the player. As mentioned, other characters do worse as well.
On another subject, King Nrgll on the Transformers first generation cartoon probably needs a cut. He planned to betray the Decepticons, sure. But they planned to betray him as well. Another thing to keep in mind is Megatron sets a high heinous standard, keep in mind in the original cartoon, many of the Decepticons are actually Autobots Megatron forcibly reprogrammed to serve him.
edited 28th Jun '15 11:14:50 AM by Monsund
Actually, we said we should cut Nergill. Anyone submit that cut?
Nergal was cut a few days ago.
Prostantos, Injurin Joe and Maegor I
Didn't you and Exister have another MST 3 K villain you were going to nominate, Lightysnake?
On another topic, does anyone else think the trope's redirects should be cut? This was very briefly discussed way back, but I'd also argue Pure Evil and Irredeemable Villain are misleading as redirects (the former for suggesting Made of Evil; the latter for implying that it's every villain who crosses the MEH), and what's more, completely unused both on and off-site.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
I do indeed. From bloodlust. I support those removals too.
edited 28th Jun '15 11:26:48 AM by Lightysnake
They weren't already? I assumed those redirects were cut a long time ago. If not I support their removal.
Sorry, but didn't Philip Bauer kiss Graem's forehead after killing him ? Does this disqualify him since it appears as a Pet the Dog moment ?
The reason I brought up Trebol specifically is that he flat-out gloats at one point that he made Doffy the way he is. Diamante, Pica, and Vergo were along for the ride, but Trebol was clearly the main enabler.
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."