During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Caesar
Yeah, Scrags and I did a thorough checkthrough of Monk...blackout guy has an unspecified bodycount through a past crime, kills a couple people in the present, and his blackout scheme really isn't given the weight it could: he even needlessly ensures the blackouts affect the least amount of area possible.
And yeah, the juror killer has been talked over a lot, still maintain he doesn't hit for reasons said several times before lol.
Aaaand grabbing Azrael, love me some Samara Weaving.
Edited by Ravok on Sep 27th 2022 at 2:23:19 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
I'm done with Justirisers and I've got at least two candidates from it.
What is the work?
Genseishin Justiriser, the second installment of Toho's Chouseishin Series.
Justirisers has a simpler plot than its predecessor. 450 years ago, an alien warlord named Kaiser Hades destroyed Planet Riser and set his sights on Earth next, but was defeated by the Riser heroine Nolun before he could attack Earth. Nolun sealed Hades on Earth within a mountain (and in of course, in Tokyo, Japan) using the eight Stellar Plates. In the present day, a surviving member of the Hades Army named Doctor Zora comes to Earth intent on reviving her master so he can resume his conquest. As such, the spirit of Nolun selects three youths to become Justirisers and defend the planet. The Justirisers are aided by a waif named Mio, whose family was entrusted by Nolun in the distant past with protecting the Justi Crystal that is the source of the Justirisers' powers.
Who is the villain?
Kaiser Hades, the Big Bad of the series and your standard Toku Evil Overlord bent on conquering the universe. He spends the first part of the series a Sealed Evil in a Can, but is unsealed a quarter of the way in... and promptly becomes an Orcus on His Throne who spends most of his time sending others to do the work for him.
What does he do?
In his campaign to conquer the galaxy, Kaiser Hades targeted Planet Riser, as the "Riser Power" its people held posed a threat to his conquest. In the process of destroying the planet, Hades defeated its champion Rigel, the younger brother of Nolun, and erased all his memories to turn him into his loyal henchman and harness some of his Riser Power for himself.
Kaiser Hades's next move was to target Earth, which held a link to Planet Riser, but before he could get to invading it he was defeated and sealed by Nolun.
At least until he gets busted out 450 years later and restarts his conquest of the planet, summoning his right-hand man General Bachuss and the elite Death Commandos under him to assist him in his campaign. He then decides to go with the incredibly smart strategy of sending his Death Commandos to attack the Justirisers one-by-one, in order of weakest to strongest. In between this, Hades subjects several cities on Earth to repeated onslaughts from kaijus in order to pave the way for the rest of his invasion. We don't get a specific body count for all of these attacks, but given how the first kaiju sent out is stated to have killed 20-300 people, these assaults definitely weren't victimless.
After his Death Commandos and right-hand man all get killed (nice going Hades), Kaiser Hades begins his final operation to destroy the Earth by having a Doomsday Device called the Magneshieldar embed itself in the planet and then combine with a second device called a Sonic Crusher, creating a shockwave capable of razing everything on the surface of the planet, before drilling to the planets core and shooting off in all directions to render the whole planet lifeless. At the same time, Hades captures Mio and, instead of killing her himself, places her inside of a "Majin Statue" before making it attack her Love Interest, Riser Gant, so he can trick him into killing her.
However, the Justirisers stop the Sonic Crusher from combining with the Magneshielder and thwart Kaiser Hades's plan. Hades then transforms into his true kaiju form to mount a last stand, but is killed when the Justirisers unlock their new Justikaizer mecha.
Heinous Standard
He's the Big Bad, so he sets it. Even if he's an Orcus on His Throne, he's still the one ordering his minions to commit evil acts. He destroyed one planet, which already puts him over Gransazer's Big Bad, and although his destruction of Planet Riser isn't shown in detail, we get several flashbacks to it and it leaves enough of an impact on the setting and several of the characters for it to stand out as heinous. His plan to destroy Earth with the Magneshielder was also especially brutal and comes close to succeeding. In terms of personal vileness, Hades brainwashed Demon Knight into becoming the very thing he despised and tried to make one of the Justirisers kill his Love Interest. So I'd say he pretty solidly meets it.
There is one villain who's worse than Hades - his big brother Majin Daruga (who we'll be getting to) but Daruga had a larger empire with more resources, was much stronger than Hades and doesn't come in until the third quarter of the show, so he doesn't detract from Hades's evilness at all.
Mitigating Factors
None really. He's your standard cut and dry Toku Dark Lord. His motive isn't terribly innovative, but it's clear cut enough for him not to be a Generic Doomsday Villain. And while he does have a brother, Hades never mentions him at all and isn't shown to have any care for him. And if you take him wanting to rule the universe and run with it, it's possible he wasn't planning on sharing it with his bro.
Final Verdict
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
. He fits right next to the Gransazer Big Bad (and is voiced by the same seiyu as him, interestingly enough).
Edited by ReddishGuy1 on Sep 27th 2022 at 2:27:38 AM
Just imagine something here.
Collector of Worlds
43110 Am I correct in saying you're referring to Hush?
I will claim what is rightfully mine, and rebuild the Kryptonian Empire.
Yes to Kaiser.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
He's referring to the Monk villain I brought up. Not Hush. Didn't know the juror killer was discussed before though. When I searched discussion for Monk, all I found were the EPs on Dale the Whale, and the murderous old ladies from one of the books.
Kaiser
Deadpool 3 release date announced: September 6, 2024
Is alright if I reserve that? Anyone else is free to join me.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Kaiser seems like a yes, but I wonder...is trying to destroy Earth too basic for the genre?
Sorry Snowy, I've had that one called since January 12 of last year. You're welcome to join though.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Collector of Worlds
Oh okay. Has he been discussed?
Edited by MemeMaster245 on Sep 27th 2022 at 10:50:30 AM
I will claim what is rightfully mine, and rebuild the Kryptonian Empire.
Oh my bad, I should have checked the dates. But yeah I’ll join if that’s okay. Just here or MB as well?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Cool thanks!
EDIT:nvm it’s reserved there too, ah well. I’ll share CM then if that’s okay.
Edited by Snowy66 on Sep 27th 2022 at 3:12:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
You can take MB if you want; I already got my MCU MB with Gorr.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Collector of Worlds
Just here. I was just wondering if he could qualify as CM too.
I will claim what is rightfully mine, and rebuild the Kryptonian Empire.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Looking at his character page, Hush seems bad enough, but I'm not sure if his backstory is disqualifying.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Is Hush bad enough for Batman?
The First man
Goku Black
Kaiser.
@ACW If it was a Sentai or an Ultraman season then maybe, but Chouseishin only ran for three installments. I don't recall much about the third show Sazer-X, but I believe the villains there just wanted to take over Earth. The method by which Hades plans to destroy the Earth also gets shown in detail and we get an entire sequence showing what will happen if his weapon goes off. Most of the other major villains in the show just send monsters to attack people, so Hades is definitely above that.
Just imagine something here.
Complete Monster fan
Replying to Master N, yikes. So not even Tirac from G1 counts anymore in spite of his threats to decapitate Spike. Then again, pacing was an issue for Midnight Castle.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Becuase that's all it was, threats and no action.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Yes to Kaiser.
Anyways, I binged the new Cyberpunk anime and no one new counts. Adam Smasher smashes a loli that every fan loved and replayed the game just to kill him for it. Not sure if his actions in the final episode are worth adding to his video game entry, but I think just linking a CM entry in the anime's YMMV page to the game YMMV page should suffice.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Goku Black
Guys could we stop with the my little pony discussion. Never again list remember?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Woagh
I mentioned this already but jimmy could be heinous enough but only has one victim and the scientists who were experimenting on Lucy and the kids have no characterization.
kaiser
after finishing the series, the second I read about him on the ymmv page for the game I immediately knew that no one in edgerunners would qualify.
Edited by Mediawatcher on Sep 27th 2022 at 4:36:53 AM
I'm basing Jotaro as the base heinous standard for Cyberpunk. He's just a small time gang leader and far worse than any character in the anime.
to Kaiser Hades.
Best Smile
Sluggo, Durand, Hades.
Stay safe G.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
Just popping in to say that nobody counts in Freedom Planet 2. The Big Bad, Queen Merga, wants to destroy the moon and wipe out all life on Earth... because she was the Sole Survivor of a genocide that not only wiped out her entire race of water dragons, but also (supposedly) killed her lover Cordelia, so she wants revenge for what the earth dragons did to her. Clear excuse and loved ones, no chance in hell she keeps.
Lord Serpentine, returning from the first game, is a comical Big Bad Wannabe whose biggest plan, to go forward with Merga's attempt to destroy the moon, isn't given much weight, and all of his actions end up going against him. A true Butt-Monkey to the end.
Syntax, also returning from the first game, tries to usurp Merga's plan to wipe out the moon as well, but that's really all she does; and like Serpentine, it's something Merga was going to do regardless.
Thankfully, Brevon still keeps, as despite not appearing in this game, he's spoken of in hushed whispers and terror, and Merga's plans thankfully don't impact his actions (he's still a Knight of Cerebus galactic conquerer who started a war and tortures children).
"No running in the halls!"