Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

to Judecca.

I think I'll go for keep to Rasputin.

Bullman: My condolences to you and your family. Take as long as you need.

Minister: Good to hear your feeling better.

Just to be certain, for cutting characters there needs to be five more keep votes than cuts in order to keep them yes?

Edited by Fortunescale155 on Mar 30th 2022 at 5:05:51 AM

Yeah, I believe so.

Judecca Ducet.

Out of curiosity, ~The Immortal Angel Newton, have you played the first game? Mother seems pretty awful looking at her character page. I know you said you will be taking a break from the series.

Edited by MasterN on Mar 30th 2022 at 5:29:30 AM

Sure to Ducet.

Where is Rasputin's EP? Because I keep thinking we are talking about Disney's Rasputin who has been established several times to solidly not be this trope.

Here.

I forget to say this on the subject of the Jones and Clarence video: "I'm not saying they don't share the deed, they definitely do. I'm saying they're separate keepers and that might mean not using the same vid for them because of it. Highlighting one of them for something else might be the way to go instead." If I did, I'm saying it now.

Well Disney does own Fox/20th Century now. Haha.

I think he could count, especially with how uncaring he is as David screams in horror continuously.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 30th 2022 at 7:41:31 AM

Disney never villainized Rasputin. You're thinking of Don Bluth and 20th Century Fox.

I thought we changed the cut to have to compare to the old votes to see if they still have plus five.

So someone should count thise and see how they compare now with the abstains and nos.

Any further thoughts on the Flesh Fair host brought up here?

Yes/Keep to Rasputin. Sounds like he's got some competition but poisoning a kid to further instigate a war does sound like it stands out, especially if Lighty's assessment is correct about it being implied that he targets "sweet boys".

Judecca

I could see the Flesh Fair host being EP’d

With Lucifer Leary an easier keep than I thought, here's Matthew Reilly EP 2 of 3, from Temple. Lighty already got up Earl Bittiker, but after thinking about it, I think his associate Troy Copeland may also count.

Who is Troy Copeland and what has he done?

He is a nuclear physicist with the US Army, working to get the Supernova. However, he is also carrying on an affair with fellow scientist Lauren O'Connor, the ex of hero William Race and the wife of William's brother Martin (long story; irrelevant to the EP).

When Bittiker arrives, it's revealed that Copeland alerted Bittiker to the presence of thyrium (the material in the idol needed to make the supernova). "Nice of you to join us". He's been passing information on to Bittiker's organization.

He then taunts Lauren and Martin:

Copeland then shoots Martin, eventually killing him. He then kills Lauren, but not after talking to Nash: "What did you call it, Frank?...The law of unintended consequences—terrorist groups getting their hands on a Supernova. Face it, you only saw this weapon as a bluffing tool—a weapon that you possess, but which you will never have the courage to use. Maybe you should have thought about it another way: don't build it if you don't intend to use it."

During the final confrontation inside the tank, William Race uses the tank's cannon to blow Copeland's head off.

Heinousness, etc.?

Bittiker's the leader, but Copeland was an integral part of them getting a Supernova. Plus the taunting of Race's brother about sleeping with his wife, and I think he makes it. Bittiker and Copeland are basically the only named members of their organization (along with one who acts as an informant), Copeland's fully aware of Bittiker's goals (or at the very least never raises any objection).

Conclusion?

I say keeper. If he counts, I may just merge his writeup with Bittiker's.

So, regarding other entries, my votes:

Galeem, Erik "The Dog" Jan Hanussen, Miyata, the Captain, Henri Sardis, Judecca, Troy Copeland

Twinrova

I would need to read more about Rasputin to make up my mind (and there seems to be quite a lot of discussion around him).

Regarding Harold: I guess I should wait a couple more days to see if there are any noticeable changes to the votes, and then submit a write-up here for approval if the majority is still favorable? I would like to avoid my past mistake and do things by the book.

Edit: Reading the Troy Copeland submission rn

Edit²: Yup, Troy seems to be an easy

On a side note: Hmmm, if I want to question an already admitted entry, I guess it's done here? Just found out about an example that makes me question some of the limits of agency, and said character did genuinely love someone in the past.

To elaborate: I'm questioning if Jon Irenicus from Baldur's Gate 2 truly counts. There is no question that he is a vile individual, but said character had his soul stripped away, leaving him unable to feel emotions like before, and is also slowly dying (as his immortality was also removed). Granted, his soul was removed as punishment for trying to become an elven god, but said removal had a tremendous impact on his ability to feel and think. When you can't feel compassion, do you still have some agency?

It seems he also genuinely loved Ellesime, the elven Queen, who reciprocated said love before his betrayal. Jon also tried to help people who suffered from the same condition as himself (though it can be seen as Pragmatic Villainy, and Jon is a very pragmatic individual). During the last stretch of the game, Ellesime is the only character who managed to briefly make him pause his Roaring Rampage of Revenge. Even stripped of his emotions, just the memory of his love for her make him stop. Sadly, he ultimately does reject her.

Would need to write about him in details. In any case, Jon Irenicus is not listed in the Complete Monster videogame list (see here). He is listed, however, on the Complete Monster Dungeons & Dragons page (here).

Edited by NonoRobot on Mar 30th 2022 at 9:09:24 AM

I will say Weak Troy, though I could be persuaded to change it.

That doesn't sound great for him qualifying on the surface. Could I possibly see his original EP?

I think Jon was added a long time ago, as it seems he was discussed as early as 2014, by Lightysnake and ACW (see here). I can't find an actual EP though, maybe I need to dig more? There is a possibility that he was added before the current rules were cemented.

I have no idea if the requirements for Complete Monster changed that much since 2014. His name does come back from time to time it seems, though the only recent major action seems to have been taken in 2018 to trim his entry (darn, can't find the post again...).

Edited by NonoRobot on Mar 30th 2022 at 9:27:08 AM

I know Lighty's defended him staying as both CM and MB on the MB cleanup not too long ago. Let's please give Lighty the opportunity to chime in before we start making decisions; he's probably got valuable input on it.

Saw some of his posts yup. It is best to wait for his input.

This is kind of related to this but I am wondering if we maybe should split up the Dungeons & Dragons page. The page is quite big putting together multiple settings on the same page and in fact, a lot of these settings aren't an officially licensed part of the franchise and are someone using D&D as a basis for their own franchise Forgotten Realms is one example of this.

Yes to Troy.

to Troy

The EP for the Flesh Fair host

The Work

A.I.: Artificial Intelligence is a 2001 science fiction film directed by Steven Spielberg, in the memory of Stanley Kubrick. It follows a young mecha boy named David, who after being abandoned by his mother, goes on a quest to find the Blue Fairy, believing that he can earn his mother's love if he can be turned into a real boy. There is part of the movie where David and a bunch of other mechas are caught to be victims at a "Flesh Fair", leading to our candidate.

The Candidate

Lord Johnson-Johnson is the man responsible for catching robots and hosting the Flesh Fair, places where mechas are destroyed through being ripped apart or dunked with acid. He is introduced while a bunch of mechas are ravaging through the scrap looking for body parts. As they flee, he sics his bikers on them traps them in a net, and takes them to the Fair.

Destruction ensues. However, the daughter of one of the technicians finds David (who looks like a real boy) in the cage, and tells her father about it. He investigates, finds out that David is a robot boy designed to be a real boy, and brings this up with Johnson.

Johnson doesn't care and immediately after learning of this fact, takes him out of the cage and ties him up to be dunked in acid. As David yells and begs for mercy, the crowd suspects that something is off since "mechas don't plead for their lives". However, Johnson justifies his actions as "demolishing artificiality". The crowd, unimpressed, starts pelting him with stones as the technician frees David and helps him escape.

Heinousness

Easily the most evil character in the film. He runs a fair where sentient beings are ripped up and destroyed for the entertainment of others, under the pretext of "destroying artificiality". One of the mechas in the cage tells David that "they pick away at us, cutting away our numbers so they can maintain numerical superiority"

He also doesn't care that David has the appearance of a child and is willing to have him melted because he views him as an attempt to "phase out all of God's little children".

However, there are some factors that may or may not be mitigating:

• While pursuing the mechas, Johnson comes across Gigolo Joe, and he asks the balloon operator if he is certain that it is not a man because he "doesn't want a repeat of the Trenton Incident". While not clarified upon in the film, it was apparently an incident where a normal human was mistaken for a mecha and ripped apart onstage. However, he doesn't seem to show any regret for the incident, even if it was a freak accident.
• He does compliment the work done to make David appear as realistic as possible, but it is probably rendered moot by the fact that he is willing to destroy it afterwards.

Final Verdict

I'm not too sure. I think he's bad enough, but at the same time, I'm not sure if the mitigating factors are strong enough either.

Johnson sounds like a . Yeah, that movie was surprisingly downbeat looking back at it.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 30th 2022 at 9:58:22 AM

to Johnson, I was wondering about this guy after looking at the movie's page.

Troy and Johnson-Johnson.