During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Caesar
Lighty nailed it: Riddler is absolutely too fucked up in both mental state and backstory...don't believe he's a WIE at all, but it doesn't change how he comes off as genuinely mentally unwell and with a horrific past, and while Falcone is behind a lot—from his penchant for strangling women from his mistresses to his own daughter, to arguably being the primary one responsible for siphoning from the Renewal project and running Gotham into the ground— he's ultimately just a marginally nasty crime lord in a film that has a low-level Serial Killer nearly wipe out thousands of lives in a flood-turned-mass shooting.
You add on that Falcone might have some slight redeeming features in things like his interactions with Bruce Wayne, his hand or lack thereof in the Wayne murders, and that even as he's strangling Selina he seems possibly, mildly remorseful in how he snarls something to the extent of "You think I want to do this? To my own daughter?!", and he's an unfortunate miss, for as threatening John flipping Turturro was in the role.
Amazing flick, but agreeing it's a no-go for this trope.
Edited by Ravok on Mar 17th 2022 at 11:59:35 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Also good points Rav.
Yeah, no keepers in The Batman. Even disregarding Riddler's FE and sanity issues, he has redeeming qualities. Batman explicitly says Riddler won't go after Gordon because Gordon is an honest cop, which was proven to be correct, and he's genuinely grateful for the support from his fans. He's not truly a WIE, but he does have legit standards.
A 20th Century Boy
Agree that The Batman has no keepers. Riddler's a great villain but has too many mitigating factors to count, and Falcone falls short of the heinous standard (especially when Riddler does worse with significantly lower resources).
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Worth.
Yes to Cole, if only because of the Living Battery thing giving him a little extra beyond generic Galactic Conqueror.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Small rewrite of Embalmer from Assassins's Creed Origins
Original
- Man Beast side quest: The Embalmer is an aristocrat of Krokodilopolis who has numerous men, women, and children in the city kidnapped and arranged to be Eaten Alive by crocodiles; there are dozens of body parts found throughout the waters of his secret hideout. He would hold private spectacles for his wealthy acquaintances to watch as the crocodiles devour them, while his prisoners watch and listen to their screams, terrified that they themselves will meet this horrific fate.
Rewrite
- Man Beast side quest: The Embalmer is an aristocrat and a member of the cult of Sobek of Krokodilopolis who has numerous men, women, and children in the city kidnapped and arranged to be Eaten Alive by crocodiles; there are dozens of body parts found throughout the waters of his secret hideout. He would hold private spectacles for his wealthy acquaintances to watch as the crocodiles devour them, while his prisoners watch and listen to their screams, terrified that they themselves will meet this horrific fate.
Regarding AC there are two villains for whom i want to know whether they are worth E Ps.
First is Le Roi from Unity. Is crippling beggars like cutting their limbs so people would give them more money enough standout crime or he still fails heinous standard?
Second is an unnamed female scholar of Sappho's school from Odyssey's side quest the Elixir who first tasks Eagle Bearer to collect ingredients for an elixir which she claims she will use to reverse Medusa's petrifications but she actually plans to use an elixir to kill people and cast them into stone statues. There is a dead body in her workshop alongside some severed limbs and bloodied rags and near side entrance there are pile of at least 8 dead bodies and two unfished statues with dead bodies inside them.
Edited by hegelvonaxel on Mar 18th 2022 at 3:39:24 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Is the rewrite necessary?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Warren Worthless and King Cole.
Goku Black
Warren and King Cole the not so merry soul.
Messenger from another dimension.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Go for those E Ps I say! La Roi sounds honeslty like he might count. The female scholar... I doubt it but for for it!
Edited by emperors on Mar 18th 2022 at 8:36:03 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Catsup time!
Yes to the Grace Brothers, General Milos, Professor Tepeus, Mezalord, the Bloodstone Emperor and Old King Cole. And happy belated St. Pat’s!
Edited by HamburgerTime on Mar 18th 2022 at 8:40:30 AM
to Professor Teppeus, Mezalord, Bloodstone Emperor, Warren Worth and King Cole.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Again, any opinions on the Fanfic Ragyo quote I proposed here? So far, only DrUnknown has voted ().
Sure to Mezalord, Bloodstone Emperor, Warren Worth and King Cole.
Kinda late — sorry for that — but I'm sorry Snoke.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Cross-wired freak
I like the Raygo quote
Listen to my podcast
Cross-wired freak
Also, since noone responds to Dragon' question on Alisaie, I think that sounds like something that needs to be discussed (and even if she keeps, she needs an approved entry that's not twice as long as our upper limit)
Listen to my podcast
@hexel: I’d say go for it. They might be worth a shot
What about Cyclops come to think of it? He's involved in two different schemes to unleash the disease spreading nanobots and switches sides when one kills the other like it was the easiest thing in the world. Or does he still not do enough as is?
Also, just because nobody in The Batman counts for either trope, it doesn't mean the movie's any less amazing of course. It's not.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 18th 2022 at 7:25:45 AM
Gentle Laborer
Bloodstone Emperor, Worth and Cole
Just a small correction: There is a Mobile Suit Gundam 00 sequel in the works and it's going to be released in 2027, turns out Revealed Chronicle is a separate project.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Bloodstone Emperor, Worth, and Cole.
Also, can we please discuss the issue brought up with Athalie? This is definitely something that should be discussed before putting her up.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, seems like a potential cut. Kinda reminds me of Ultimate Skull.
That's a cut.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Well, she was never actually put up, so it’s more of a vote switch.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Bloodstone Emperor, Worth, and Cole. Cut Athalie as she was not even proposed, let alone approved.
Edited by YobabyColin on Mar 18th 2022 at 10:57:47 AM
Cross-wired freak
She was approved in the sense she was upvoted, but there were a lot of concerns raised that the proposer just shoved past, and the actual entry never went through the thread and blatantly breaks our length rules
Yeah, Riddler is a WIE (or at least his FE is understandable) and he's too crazy. As for Falcone, if he lead the charge on draining/siphoning the funds from Renewal and thus plunging the city into crime, yeah totally. He doesn't though, so he can't count.