During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Dyer. He was downvoted once for being a cog in the system, but given that his superiors are horrified by his actions I think he's fine.
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Mar 13th 2022 at 1:21:30 AM
Messenger from another dimension.
Dyer.
For Dyer
Edited by randomtroper89 on Mar 13th 2022 at 4:40:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Dyer. He practically solidified himself as an Hate Sink the moment he did that.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Dyer
Bye
Kommandant Ludin, the Vampire, Shift, Skorpion, R.E.H Dyer
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Dyer, Kommandant Ludin, the Vampire, Shift, Skorpion
Edited by WetFlannels on Mar 13th 2022 at 3:01:33 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
The Emperor of Evil!
to Shift, Skorpion, and Dyer
The MILF Virus
Shift, Skorpion, and Dyer
You know with the rule of a character potentially keeping even if we don't see them in-character but we do see the result of their action, does Kotoko's father in Danganronpa Another Episode: Ultra Despair Girls have a chance to qualify? He does have uniqueness, outheinousness compared to other Abusive Parents in both this game and other games, and we do see the horrific results it inflicted on Kotoko while just being an ordinary man, not even an Ultimate or a person of authority, but the issue is we didn't see him since he was already dead so you think it might work out now?
Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Mar 14th 2022 at 12:08:18 AM
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Wouldn't he be outheinoused by Junko?
The MILF Virus
Junko is also a leader of an incredibly powerful cult-like organization who has army hundreds of thousands of killer robot bears, a genius intellect to the point she's called the Ultimate Analysis, numerous Ultimates under her command, and so much more. Yeah, she out heinous but also massively out resource him. Kotoko's father is just a "normal" man who's abuse to his own daughter not only is unique to him even with parents outside his game, and other people with similar resources.
With 13 upvotes, here is General Dyer's writeup
- Gandhi: General R.E.H Dyer oversaw the Jallianwala Bagh Massacre, with the intention of "inflicting a lesson that would have an impact throughout all India". He ordered his troops to fire "where the crowd was the thickest" and even had innocent civilians gunned down for trying to escape. His actions and callousness disgust his British peers, and serves as the catalyst for Mahatma Gandhi to pursue complete independence from the British rule.
Any feedback?
Edited by magnumtropus on Mar 14th 2022 at 8:52:00 AM
to Shift, Skorpion, and Dyer.
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
Looks good. Maybe could do with some potholes. Place it on Complete Monster Drafts.
Edited by MinisterOfSinister on Mar 13th 2022 at 4:49:00 PM
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
@TheImmortalAngelNewton I think it depends on what we know about him. Derek Keane and Sister Jeanne Belanger went up (or rather, re-went up for the former) because, despite their lack of on-screen presence, we still had :
- Accounts of their personality and deeds.
- Evidence of their crimes.
- Noticeable influence in the present day.
Should Kotoko's dad fall in the same water, I'd say he's worth a look. And looking at the mofo's deeds, I'd say we'd have a nasty fellow then.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Mar 13th 2022 at 6:04:59 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
to General Dyer.
to Dyer. The horrified reaction from British officials is accurate, by the way; even staunch proponents of the British Empire like Asquith and Churchill were outraged.
The MILF Virus
Does a flashback of him (not confirm but it's heavily implied to be him) taking Kotoko to another "work" while she's shaking in fear, and her suffering mass hysteria and PTSD from the word "gentle" which was the euphemism he used for work count? I mean even if the flashback adult man wasn't him, we do see plenty of evidence of his action, from logs and documents that go to detail his action and Kotoko talking about him.
Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Mar 14th 2022 at 1:17:20 AM
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
I think we're good then. Deal with the EP and we'll see how it goes from there.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Dyer, Skorpion
Also this quote is still on the quotes page even though the Darkling was cut
- "I will strip away all that you know, all that you love, until you have no other shelter but mine."
I have a candidate from a biopic film:
The Work
Gandhi, a 1982 film about the life of Mahatma Gandhi. It follows his life as a freedom fighter, upto his death in 1948. One of the major incidents during India's freedom struggle was the Jallianwala Bagh Massacre, which occured on 13th April 1919 in which a British general ordered his troops to gun down an innocent crowd in the titular Jallianwala Bagh.
The Candidate
The candidate is the general, R.E.H Dyer (I am also looking at another figure associated with the massacre, from a different film)
The full massacre and his subsequent trial scene can be found here
, but to summarize:
During a peaceful demonstration, General Dyer drives in an armored car towards the gate with his troops. He enters the building and has the troops line up, take aim, and open fire, as the crowd watches, even ordering his troops to fire at people trying to escape. In the video, the massacre starts at 3:33 and ends at 5:16.
The next scene sees Dyer in front of a judge, calling him out for his actions. Dyer, for his part, believes that he did the right thing, stating that "My intention was to inflict a lesson that would have an impact throughout all India". The board is naturally shocked with his attitude.
Heinousness Standard
In the context of both this movie and real life, the massacre was the main driving force that convinced many (including Gandhi) that the British had to be kicked out of India. Even the British judge calls him out for gunning down a crowd with children in it.
As for the man himself, Dyer believes that he didn't do anything wrong. Before the massacre starts, one of his men suggests that they warn the crowd, to which he replies "They had their warning - no meetings". He even orders his men to specifically target a group of people trying to escape.
As for comparisons with other characters, most of it comes off as standard bigotry and discrimination. This stands out because innocent civilians were involved (and according to the judge, there were 1516 casualties)
Mitigating Issues
None that show up here
Edited by magnumtropus on Mar 13th 2022 at 4:12:56 PM