During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Professor Gigachad
Ah, sorry. It’s just baffles me that a figure from Breton folklore got labeled as Cornish, even though they are two distinct cultures which are across the English Channel from each other. It’s like how the Disney Lone Ranger film called Butch Cavendish a wendigo when that’s an Algonquin myth, not Comanche. That’s what I was getting at, a bizarre case of Sadly Mythtaken.
Edited by Vyn on Oct 19th 2021 at 7:36:57 AM
He never sleeps. He says he will never die.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Dormammu.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
Speaking of Marvel baddies, has Cthon been posted yet? It's hard to go back through 10,000+ pages for answers haha.
The Emperor of Evil!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Dormammu
Dormammu.
Dormammu
@Vyn it was probably just a mistake. We can fix it
@Minister not yet, but give Scraggle some time.
Edited by nwotyzal on Oct 19th 2021 at 7:49:44 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Dormammu.
Minister: I THINK Lighty or Scraggle are looking into Chthon.
Edited by ACW on Oct 19th 2021 at 10:49:45 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
If he goes up. He'll probably be the last of the big demon lords of Marvel to count.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yes to Dormammu.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Belasco, Mephisto, Shuma-Gorath...anyone else we have up who I'm forgetting?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Dormammu
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Emperor of Evil!
Just remembered, why doesn't Comic!Deacon Frost count? I remember ACW ask that but the I don't think that question was answered I believe.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Oct 19th 2021 at 11:02:13 AM
Because he's probably not anywhere near bad enough.
@Vyn: If there are errors, name and correct them politely. OH, and yes to Michelo Chariot
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 19th 2021 at 8:34:41 AM
I thought I was being polite. My apologies.
He never sleeps. He says he will never die.
Michaelo
The Draftsman of Doom
Yea to the Dread Lord.
Vyn, thank you for the correction, but you may want to cut Lighty a little slack here, since there is a slight tendency for Euro-Celtic mythologies (British or otherwise) to overlap.
Also, I fail to see how…
Would you like it if I told you something along these lines?
I know from experience that such posts are seen as uncivil, besides which I assure you, even if your most recent effortposts were declined, they were worthwhile regardless.
I don't mean to be rude, but when you are uncivil towards other people, it makes it harder for others to be civil with you.
Edit: Super ninja'd. Leaving the pile now.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Noted.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 19th 2021 at 11:52:41 AM
Feels good, don't it?
Sky. Point was made. I appreciate it but we’ve talked how you don’t need to chime in on a settled subject like that
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 19th 2021 at 8:50:27 AM
The Moron
And let's briefly move long before I have to step away for a while - from Dormammu to his most deadly follower, Carnage.
Who is Carnage? What does he do?
Carnage, as always, is a symbiote born from a small piece of the Venom symbiote. Originally used in experiments by good ol' Norman Osborne, Carnage was eventually bonded to Gwen Stacy and immediately began a rampage of the building, sucking out everyone's blood, organs, and then skin until nothing's left by their clothes. Carnage eventually gets separated from Gwen, but ends up stumbling on Cletus Kasady and bonds to him, with both of them deciding to go on a rampage.
At some point later, Carnage gets approached by Mordo to work for Dormammu instead. Since they were already planning on just killing everyone in sight, they say sure, get a bit of a power boost from the Great Demon himself, and proceed to go from universe to universe killing everyone they see through their horrific killing methods. Soon enough, entire cities have fallen to their onslaught; no matter what heroes stand in their way, Carnage always gets away alive, gathering more and more energy to release Dormammu onto our plane.
However, to finally make himself whole and complete the process, Carnage has a secondary goal - find his "children", Riot, Scream, etc. and absorb them back into himself, making him whole enough that Dormammu can take the energy he's collected and come to this plane. At some point in his massacre, Carnage manages to figure out where they are and attacks, managing to absorb his children despite the difficult fight - but before he can summon Dormammu, other heroes show up, and they manage to separate Cletus and Carnage to kill both of them for good.
Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?
Carnage was a murderous monster from the moment he was "born" and went on a rampage even while he was bonded to Gwen Stacy - and Cletus, as always, is just a crazy psychopath who was already a murderer before they bonded. They were already planning to just use their powers to go on an aimless rampage killing everyone in sight even before Dormammu showed up. Nothing to speak of here.
Is he heinous enough?
The Batman Who Laughs is pretty strong competition given that he's destroyed multiple worlds and Doctor Doom is implied to have destroyed multiple universes, but Carnage stacks up to him in sheer personal bodycount and horrific brutality. His killing method is easily the most vile in the entire story, given that he sucks out people's blood, then their organs, and then eats their skin, and Venom estimates his kill count to be in the millions across multiple universes by the time his rampage is over - and keep in mind that all of that is in service of releasing Dormammu knowing full well that he intends to destroy the Multiverse once he comes out. If BWL had agency they could keep side by side, but as it stands Carnage stands out very well on his own.
Final verdict?
And yet another yep - what about you?
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Michelo Chariot, btw.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes to Carnage.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 19th 2021 at 11:56:49 AM
Feels good, don't it?
Alright... ignoring the usual parties who prefer to ignore posts to ask about different villains, random rudeness and the need for some to write paragraphs that amount to "Yeah, I'm mad too" and the like I'm just going to say yes to Michelo and the suggested entry edits. Play nice now.
Edit: Yes to Dormmamu and Carnage as well!
Edited by 43110 on Oct 19th 2021 at 11:57:30 AM
The Emperor of Evil!
And yes to Carnage
Dormmamu.
Carnage.
Yes to Dormammu.
Vyn? "Kind of a dumb mistake, and a little insulting."
....could do without that from hereon, ok?