During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The Moron
I am in no way an authority here, but I believe it’s that we take the work’s standard based on where in the canon it’s meant to lie - I know there was a Teen Titans fic where the villain was rejected even though they met the standard of the fic because by the time the fic started, Slade would have had most of his run already. AUs tend to be their own thing altogether
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jul 22nd 2021 at 5:26:48 AM
Lizzid people!
I apologize for that and agree it was too cruel. But I'll move on from that.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Don't really understand that question.
Edited by AustinDR on Jul 22nd 2021 at 2:33:39 AM
Professor Gigachad
IMO we should judge it based on how much the fic ties into events from the source material that would affect the heinous standard.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Lizzid people!
@ASghhrv6ub: If you meant something like that, it is being discussed here.
Edited by AustinDR on Jul 22nd 2021 at 2:33:22 AM
The Moron
I’m pretty sure that by “HS” they meant heinous standard and were wondering how we judge the standard of fan fics compared to their source
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, in that case, yes to Flegel.
Also, since Beck's page got merged with Mysterio's page, Narcissist work for his name?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Caesar
Ah right sorry, yes Narcissist works great for that!
"The Juice is Loose."
By the way. Didn't at one point have a video example? I could swear we did, but it's not there anymore.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Caesar
We did have a video example up at one point, Cioccolata from JoJo. You and I and others have brought this up, wondering where the video example went, but we have never once gotten an answer to the inquiry so I stopped trying, lol
Edited by Ravok on Jul 22nd 2021 at 2:58:40 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm personally fine with more video examples.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Professor Gigachad
I wonder what would be required for a good video example my guess is them doing something super heinous.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
The wifi here sucks
The Cioccolata one was actually really good since it was just his backstory where he did all kinds of messed up stuff.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Flegel. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Osanai.
Cut Mad Hatter and Red King.
Veffir, Evar and Flegel
Osanai
Cut Mad Hatter and Red King
Woagh
Right, so early dilemma time.
Say that a potential candidate is described as "the results of destructive thoughts" and was the rival of a God of Good. But what if the candidate is shown to be in control of its nature? Like, say, being perfectly able to keep someone alive for answers, only for their manipulated host accidentally killing them and the evil guy getting pissed at them for killing their only source of answers?
Aside from that, the candidate in question doesn't really show any massive agency issues and is capable of controlling itself for pragmatic reasons, and hell, the source of the destructive thoughts idea is acknowledged to be speculation at best. Would y'all say he's kosher for discussion?
Oh, and it's a LittleBigPlanet fanfic, but it has an actual plot and characters and isn't overtly dark.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Professor Gigachad
Sounds fine to me especially with the new agency rule.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
I don’t care about South Park but Flegel is a definite yes. As Ravok has already pointed out, he ensures the Westerland Massacre goes through even if he didn’t order it and while Braunschweig at least just ordered Ansbach arrested, the former wanted him killed for even questioning it. He manipulates a mentally ill woman into becoming his assassin in killing Reinhard’s sister because Reinhard insulted him at a party. He tries to torture Mittenmeyer to death for rightfully executing a Noble-born soldier for raping and killing a woman. He tries to force hundreds of soldiers on his ship into a suicide attack to secure his own glory. For his level he does more than enough.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Catching Up.
@ACW
RE:Van Zant
Yeah stuff like 'Van Zant syndrome' Shouldn't just be for any type with alot of nasty heavy hitters and such. In the case of, DBZ for example, it wasn't just the heavy hitters, the most minor, fuckoff of baddies got really awful, like Friezas stooges who are smug sadists who massacre villages and blow up kids for him, Nappa who destroys a city as they scream in horrific agony,Extras Like random saiyans in flashbacks who are shown commiting genocide.
to the...Nazi shark dudes(God I love this thread) Flegal, and cut the South Park guys.
to Baron Flegel.
Flegel
the fanfic duo.
The Draftsman of Doom
Oh boy, I missed a lot, let me catch up real quick.
Nazi Sharks (Never thought I hear that, what's next, Nazi Monkeys?), and Flegel. Cut the Fanfic!South Park duo.
As for Super Mario Logan, having watched the series since I was young, there is no chance in hell that it will EVER get a CM due to most of the atrocities committed in the series being played for laughs. (Hell even SMG 4 is more likely to have a CM than SML as SMG 4 takes certain atrocities more seriously than SML ever will) It doesn't help that said atrocities are committed by most of the main SML cast. For some examples take a look at the series' Moral Event Horizon page: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/MoralEventHorizon/SuperMarioLogan (WARNING: It's massive)
Woagh
Y'know, as someone who occasionally visits the MEH cleanup thread, I doubt that any of those are proper MEH moments. Still a pretty jacked HS tho.
Cut the fanfic candidates, no need to pile on anyone it was years back and things have changed, moving on.
@ACW: Flegel is earnestly advocating for the nuking and flat-out orders the execution of someone who tries to advise sparing Westerland, threatening the same to anyone else who questions the plan. He's explicitly preventing anyone from questioning the plan or persuading other officers into standing against it, the nuking is basically solely possible because of Flegel.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!