During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Done. I've also added the Storm Clouds entry to that group, since it seems they're both based on the games.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
In Jeremiah Stone's write-up, change "gold mine" to "gold miner" and remove the Would Hurt a Child pothole (his victim there was a young adult; I don't recall any kids in the film at all).
Caesar
'Yes' to O'Dwyer, Kavaxas, and the Ninja candidates. True hilarity. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
It's a surprise none of the villains from the Shadow Games Saga of Yu-Gi-Oh! have made this. Here's one I think can qualify.
Who Is He? Kokurano, a Phony Psychic and an early antagonist from Yu-Gi-Oh!.
What Has He Done? Kokurano gained his reputation as a psychic after he predicted that a fellow student's house would burn down. When Yugi, Jonouchi, and Anzu go get their fortunes told, he creepily tells Anzu that she'll meet the love of her life while giving Jonouchi no advice for his bad luck. When he offers to tell Yugi his fortune, Yugi declines by telling him that he doesn't believe in fortune telling. This enrages Kokurano and he tells him that "countless letters would fall from the heavens and bring disaster upon him."
Later that day, when Yugi is at the library, he pushes a large shelf on him and probably would have killed him had Yami not awakened. He then corners Anzu and knocks her out with chloroform so that he could rape her, but is thankfully stopped by Yami. After Yami beats him in a Shadow Game, it is revealed that he has notes full of fake predictions, revealing that he was the one that burned his classmate's house to the ground. Another prediction he has written down is that a teacher will die, heavily implying that he was planning on murdering him.
Mitigating Factors Since he was an early antagonist in the series, the Heinous Standard hadn't been set very high, with his only real competition being three bullies and the 777 Killer, and like the 777 Killer, only one of his murder attempts was actually on-page. However, the 777 Killer, for all of his page-time, seemed to uphold his end of the hostage bargain if he got his vodka and cigarettes, only trying to kill Yami for trying to get in his way. Kokurano, on the other hand, tried to burn down a house, kill Yugi, and possibly other people to stroke his own ego. He is also the only antagonist in Yu-Gi-Oh! to actually attempt rape.
Final Verdict While he has a small role, he definitely did a lot of evil deeds in that short time. That's why I'm conflicted on adding him and want everybody else's opinion.
In case anyone cares, I celebrated my birthday today.
Quarter of a century old...
I need to make my mark soon or I'll die having accomplished naught!
EDIT: I think I'll ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
that Phony Psychic.
While a decent candidate, other villains do much worse later on, and we take that into account.
Still, there's the matter of resources... I am open to having my mind changed.
edited 23rd Apr '17 3:53:03 PM by PolarPhantom
No to Kokurano. Nasty minor villain does not automatically equate to CM.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
the Black Ninja
Wasn't that Yu-Gi-Oh guy voted down before?
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
His name seems vaguely familiar...
Anyway, Kokurano.
Also happy (belated?) birfday, PolarPhantom.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Honestly, the closest person who counts as a CM in the early Yu-Gi-Oh! chapters is Hirutani, mostly for his brutal methods in trying to kill Yugi and Jonouchi (suffocation and tasering respectively). But even then, I don't think he goes far enough in heinousness.
to Braden and the Black Ninja.
Another EP for Grimm:
Who Is He?
Charlie Riken is the leader of the Secundum Naturae Ordinem Wesen, also known as the Wesenrein.
What Does He Do?
The Wesenrein are an organization that believes that Wesen should be pure, that is only marry into their own race. They also believe that a Wesen cannot befriend a Grimm. To violators, they will leave Wolfsangel symbols at houses as well as dead animals. Eventually, they kidnap one whom they believe has violated their statutes and any who believe will be useful, before putting them in a Kangaroo Court, with an execution method of impaling the victims on the stake and burning them alive.
Riken hears from his contact about the marriage of Monroe and Rosalee Calvert. It is also common knowledge that Monroe and Rosalee are friends with and corroborators with Detective Nick Burkhardt, the local Grimm. Riken and his group make several threats against Monroe and Rosalee before abducting Monroe to make him answer for his "crimes." Riken's younger brother Jonah, another member of the group, was seen without his mask at the hideout, where Charlie tells Jonah that if he's seen without his mask on, he won't have a need for a face, showing his ruthlessness toward his own family. Riken then went to Harold Johnson, a member of the group who had been accosted by Nick and Teresa Rubel; thinking Harold would testify, despite Johnson's confession that he remained silent, tore his throat out. During this time, Monroe tried to escape, but was recaptured after finding Terry, another captive, burned and impaled on the stake. Riken also kidnapped Bud, another of Nick's friends, to participate in the trial, threatening to kill him if he did not testify. At night, the tribunal came to an end, and Riken pronounced Monroe and Bud guilty and sentenced to die as Terry had, but was stopped by Nick, Hank, Juliette, Renard and Wu. Riken fled into the woods, leaving his men to die as the rest were hunted down and killed one by one. Encountering Monroe, Riken tried to kill him before Rosalee and Monroe tore his throat out.
None. His motivation is Fantastic Racism combined with The Fundamentalist.
Mitigating Circumstances?
None.
Heinousness?
The Wesenrein are the Ku Klux Klan of the Wesen world and Riken, as the leader, is the Arc Villain of early Season 4.
Verdict?
Keeper.
edited 23rd Apr '17 4:49:32 PM by k410ren
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, he may not have the bodycount of some of the others, but seems to fill a unique niche...except, wasn't Conrad Bonaparte (a current CM) also a Fantastic Racist?
edited 23rd Apr '17 4:28:32 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
A different brand; Bonaparte didn't like humans but didn't seem too concerned with intermarriage; Riken was more about racism between different kinds of Wesen and "keeping the bloodlines pure" (to quote Robert Baratheon).
edited 23rd Apr '17 4:32:47 PM by k410ren
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I think at this point I'm gonna have to abstain when it comes to anyone from Grimm. This seems like a show where I'd need to watch it for myself to see if anyone else counts.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Wasn't there a Mad Bomber in early Yu Gi Oh?
A total has-been.
Random question but yes there was, but he was a total non-entity. The original manga cared so little about him that we never even got to see his face.
And it's probably worth repeating - none of early Yu-Gi-Oh's Villains Of The Week qualify for this trope. Seto Kaiba eclipsed all of them in heinousness, and then Dark Bakura and Dark Marik annihilated that heinous standard.
edited 23rd Apr '17 4:39:36 PM by ANewMan
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Is that why Kaiba doesn't count, with him being out-heinoused?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
No, it's because he was redeemable very deep down, and had a traumatic childhood.
A total has-been.
Pretty much. His Freudian Excuse just clicked too well into place and explained why a guy who wasn't exactly well to begin with would go even further off the deep end following his loss and Penalty Game to Dark Yugi. His redemption didn't and couldn't start voluntarily on his part (he went right over the Moral Event Horizon by what he did to Mokuba at Death-T), but once he regained consciousness, the effort to put his heart back together and have his own character arc from there was all on him.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I'd missed the phony psychic guy being brought up again when I made my point about the minor Yu-Gi-Oh! villains. To add to the reminder - this is not to be judged by what we personally feel is heinous and vile: if the work itself does not depict the villain and their actions as being among the most horrible thing ever by that work's heinous standard, the villain cannot qualify. In the case of this series, when you bring in the more malevolent Big Bads such as Kaiba, Pegasus, Marik, Dark Marik and Dark Bakura, every earlier one-off antagonist and their actions look like child's play and they'd have had to have done some real damage with whatever resources they had to work with in order to stand out, which none of them really did.
edited 23rd Apr '17 4:58:03 PM by ANewMan
I don't really see what's so random about it, you guys were just talking about early Yu Gi Oh.
The early bit villains also included two serial killers and a Mad Bomber, so even at his level, Kokurano's eclipsed.
Didn't Charlie Riken had a brother? I can't really remember their relationship
Yes, Riken had a brother. His name was Jonah. Jonah was more impulsive than Charlie and at one point, Charlie threatened to tear Jonah's face off for not having his mask on. When Monroe killed one of the Wesenrein in his escape attempt, Jonah suggested killing him right away, but Charlie wanted him alive to be impaled and burned on the stake at the end of the Kangaroo Court. Jonah would be killed by Juliette, who blew the back of his head off.
edited 23rd Apr '17 5:39:18 PM by k410ren
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
edited 23rd Apr '17 2:57:08 PM by Awesomekid42