Translation Error Tropes

This thread is to discuss the scope and overlap of the following:

• "Blind Idiot" Translation
• Translation Train Wreck
• Lost in Translation

Refer to Blind Idiot Translation TRS and this wick check.

• "Blind Idiot" Translation and Translation Train Wreck frankly are indistinguishable as far as I'm concerned: the way they're typically used just means "horribad hack job of a foreign localization", e.g. the Zero Wing one that spawned all the memes like All Your Base Are Belong to Us. Ostensibly "Blind Idiot" Translation is supposed to be a translation that's bad because it's overly literal, but I think that's The Same, but More Specific.
• Lost in Translation to me is where particular details get, well, lost in the process of localization. For example, one that came up when I was doing a bunch of editing on The Asterisk War was, the anime speaks of a MegaCorp called the Integrated Enterprise Foundation, but the original Light Novel states that IEF is in fact a type of MegaCorp and that there are six of them in the setting. The English translations were done by two different studios, Aniplex and Yen Press, and Aniplex either missed that detail or didn't think it was important and chose to simplify it away.

Edited by StarSword on Jan 25th 2023 at 2:57:16 PM

My original idea was to rename BIT but the discussion moved away from that when people started wondering if the concept is even worth having... or if BIT has been too mishandled to bother saving it.

I was about to suggest remaking some into "meaningful translation errors", then realized it may effectively be a Dub-Induced Plot Hole.

Edited by Amonimus on Jan 25th 2023 at 11:04:26 PM

There is an interesting concept behind "Blind Idiot" Translation, but unfortunately the description doesn't explain it well, so together with the bad name and people's desire to feel superior by pointing out the tiniest mistake, you get a ton of misuse.

The concept is that a word, or part of a phrase, has multiple meanings, and the translator picked the wrong one — this is what leads to examples like the trope namer, the proverb "Out of sight, out of mind" being translated into "blind idiot". (This can involve picking a literal meaning when that's wrong, but it doesn't have to, so it would be good if we could stop focusing on "literal" or "overly literal".)

At this stage there's probably so much misuse that if we want to have a page for this type of error, it would be best to start from scratch.

Something like Overly Literal Translation could work, but first we'd need to determine that a rename is necessary.

That's a good point. I didn't really know how to convey the idea besides "literalism" but yeah, it's not 100% accurate

- Sounds similar to the Either "World Domination", or Something About Bananas redirects.

Okay, by that definition, there might be a salvageable trope in BIT if we were to rename it something like Blunt Homonyms Trauma. (Yes, I know that would be a bad snowclone of Blunt Metaphors Trauma, that isn't a serious title suggestion.)

Edited by StarSword on Jan 25th 2023 at 6:13:09 AM

Something like Bad Thesaurus Translation? ... Thesauruses are lists of Synonyms. Raw Thesaurus Translation?

Edited by Malady on Jan 25th 2023 at 3:57:29 AM

Shouldn't we reach a consensus on renaming first, and then when it's taken to TRS again, we decide on the names there?

Yeah. We're falling into the common trap of brainstorming names before we've agreed to rename it at all.

I agree that a rename is needed for BIT since most people misunderstand the trope and so tend to shoehorn just bad/inaccurate translations in general (edit: the other two tropes suffer from some "inaccurate translation" shoehorning too, but their names and descriptions are pretty clear, whereas BIT is a bit confusing as it is)

Edited by Rhapsody on Jan 26th 2023 at 10:16:54 PM

In the TRS thread, I suggested making "Blind Idiot" Translation into a disambig which includes Lost in Translation and Good Bad Translation (and other relevant items). If we rename it, we could still use the original name for the disambig. Thoughts?

I also suggested repeatedly a Trivia item where examples of inaccurate translations can be placed.

Lost in Translation also has a laconic that disagrees with the description. The laconic states that it occurs "when the translation fails to preserve the original meaning", but the description is about things that cannot be perfectly translated:

• "Puns, figurative speech, connotations and cultural references: they all create problems..."
• "A term in one language may have no equivalent in another, or the associations might differ wildly. Rendering idioms literally often makes no sense whatsoever."
• "When done with this in fansubs, some often place a little note explaining the context of the pun or cultural reference. Other translations put a note explaining it."
• "When the original language of a film is mentioned in the film itself (for example, "Do you speak English?" in an American Hollywood film), translators, depending on country, might replace it with the phrase "our language"."

etc.

Edited by Albert3105 on Jan 26th 2023 at 10:22:05 AM

You mean a Missing Supertrope / index for the mentioned?

A super-Trivia item can work.

Edited by Albert3105 on Jan 26th 2023 at 10:14:55 AM

I've seen a lot of "plot-relevant wordplay that the localization didn't bother with" or "the localization decides to skip parts of a narration because they can't properly word it" examples as Lost in Translation

Edited by Amonimus on Jan 26th 2023 at 9:23:43 PM

While we're here we may as well do wick checks for the other tropes.

Lost in Translation could be worthy of a wick check, as I see that the laconic, examples, and trope description disagree with each other.

Edited by Albert3105 on Jan 26th 2023 at 11:31:01 AM

I forgot about this thread, but I'm reviving it now. I'm working on a wick check for a different trope, but I might open one for Translation Trainwreck when I'm done with that.

just to throw my two cents in, i've generally thought of the distinction as "Blind Idiot" Translation being for specific moments in an otherwise fine translation, and Translation Train Wreck being for when the whole translation is bad. i'm not sure if that's the intent or if how they're used, though. i don't like the name for "Blind Idiot" Translation because to me it implies "this was translated by a blind idiot" rather than the incredibly oblique "real" reason behind the name

I originally thought "Blind Idiot" Translation's name was a reference to Azatoth.

Also I always thought the difference was clear:

• "Blind Idiot" Translation - Translation has a few errors.
• Translation Train Wreck - Bootleg translations that are filled with errors.
• Lost in Translation - Puns, slang and other forms of language are translated improperly, with the result being incomprehensible.

Yeah, "Blind Idiot" Translation isn't "a few errors" — it can be a lot of errors, it just has to be an issue of the translation being technically "correct" but incorrect in context and grammar, which the translator may not have understood at the time.

And Translation Trainwreck doesn't have to be a bootleg at all; those are just easy targets.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 12th 2023 at 2:11:47 PM