Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
Not the Eye
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Astrid
to Astrid
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Galmar and Astrid
@Klavice No the Tenacious D devil doesn't count, as awesome and funny as that version is, he has an entire song bragging about raping Cage.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Btw can I get some info on when Despero and Zora will be written up? Also could the Thing go on the drafts please?
Yes to Galmar and Astrid.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to David Sullivan, Teach, The Music, El Gaucho. Galmar and Astrid. No to Death.
Now my final Once Upon a Time keeper. A fairly minor one.
Who is Zoso?
The Dark One before Rumplestiltskin who once tried to still the magical hat from the The Apprentice but fails due Merlin putting a spell to protect it from those who have succumbed to Darkness. Finding himself enslaved to the Duke of the Frontlands, Zoso is forced to help him collect children for the Ogre Wars. Wanting to be free of both his enslavement and his curse, Zoso hatched a plan to be free.
Recognizing Rumpel as a desperate soul who would do anything to keep his son, Zoso choose him as his successor. Pretending to be a homeless begger, Zoso waits until the Duke's men humiliate him in front of his son before helping him home and proclaiming that he will be his benefactor. When at the house, Zoso plays to Rumple's lack of power, telling him about how the Duke has the Dark One's Dagger and how if he could take it he could control the Dark One, before using Rumple's cowardice to convince him to kill the Dark One instead. When Rumple uses the Dagger to summon him, Zoso uses his insecurities to goad Rumple into killing. Once the deed is done, Zoso reveals his manipulations and passes away laughing but teaching Rumplestiltskin to lessons. "Never make a deal that you don't fully understand" and "magic always comes with a price."
Is he magnificent and a bastard?
For a two episode villain only shown in flashbacks. Yeah he's pretty dang good. He manages to come up with a ti free himself while inslaved, he plays Rumpelstiltskin like a fiddle, and comes up with his plan pretty much on the fly and while being super limited in what he can do. He is also nothing but seemingly genuinely nice to Rumplestiltskin and is surprising captivating when telling him about the dagger. No doudt helped by Brad Dourif's as always pretty great performance.
As for bastard. While we don't see what he does as the Dark One. Its clear that he has been a mesnsce to the land. However, what really does it is his manipulation of Rumple. With him tricking a cowardly but ultimately kind man into taking on a curse he doesn't fully understand. Making him the key motivator of Rumple's start to Darkness that would haunt the enchanted forest for untold years. However, compared to the already approved Rumplestiltskin that is nothing.
Conclusion?
I say yes. But I can understand if you don't think he makes it for a fairly minor villain.
Edited by Bullman on Jan 30th 2023 at 11:44:46 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Not the Eye
Still looks fine to me Bull!
Woagh
to Zoso and Astrid.
Caesar
Yes to Zoso and Astrid!
- Chungking Express: The Woman in the Blonde Wig is an enticing, cold-blooded drug trafficker who runs a smooth operation in the underbelly of Hong Kong. She smuggles drugs out of the country by taking exact measurements of her drug mules, then designing clothes and luggage for them capable of hiding many pounds of heroin. When her latest operation is screwed over by her American partner, the Woman moves fast in executing two thugs out to assassinate her, and when she needs information, she kidnaps the young daughter of a man to extort him while truthfully just feeding the girl ice cream and leaving her unharmed. Spending the night flirting and growing close with cop He Qiwu while he is totally unaware of her true nature, the Woman thanks Qiwu for his night of drinking by wishing him a happy birthday over voicemail before ambushing and murdering her American partner for his betrayal, after which she flees the country uninhibited for other prospects.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
So I have an odd question. If Zoso and Will pass that would leave Pirates and Once Upon a Time with seven. So I was wondering if you guys would be okay with me whipping up some sandboxes because I think we also have seven Phineas and Ferb ones with more on the way according to Ravok.
Edited by Bullman on Jan 30th 2023 at 12:14:55 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Goku Black
Zoso.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Dunno if that's necessary. Splittong like that is normally done when the subpage is too long. But Disney isn't that big yet. How about giving them their own folders though?
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I mean Once Upon a Time and Pirates already have their own folders. Though I would be okay with giving Phineas and Ferb it's own folder as well.
Edited by Bullman on Jan 30th 2023 at 12:17:44 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Goku Black
I'm cool with that. I.e. giving it it's own folder.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Vote on Zoso soon. With Will and Anamaria, Pirates now has eight. The own folders thing works fine currently with the space it currently has, so no worries about the page getting too big right now.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 30th 2023 at 11:28:29 AM
Pinging ~Zuxtron for the Zora writeup.
Yeah I think folders are sufficient atm. Topic ain't closed if we've gotta revisit later on anyways.
Yes to Zoso and Astrid.
Speaking of Death earlier, I've always been keeping an eye on Death from the Discworld series but always felt he was right on the bastard line. Soul Music solidified that part for me since he was willing to put the universe in danger to defeat the Music. I'm gonna read a couple more of his books first, but he's definitely on the to-do list now.
I also fully plan on doing an EP of Granny Weatherwax after reading her 5th book, the next one after the current one I'm reading. Since I confidently say I could EP from each individual bookend she'd keep from each one, she's definitely as easy a keeper as Vetinari was.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Okay Phineas and Ferb folder is made on Magnificent Bastard Disney.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
I'm sorry, for some reason, I'm having trouble actually writing Zora's entry. Maybe in the future, I'll come back and write it, unless someone else manages to do it first. I hope that's not a major issue.
Goku Black
Does anyone have a link to the ep. We can try to make a version .
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Zoso, Astrid
Woagh
And now, I present JT Music candidate no.2! As of now this is the last potential candidate I can find, but hey The Lamb Song was fairly recent so more can easily be made later. There is one more potential, but it's, er, unusual and I figure I should ask around first.
This song, "Daddy's Home", is based off of Bioshock 2, which focuses on a particularly jacked Big Daddy, Subject Delta. Formerly a human known as Johnny Topside, he spends his days protecting his Little Sister, Eleanor Lamb. One day, her mother and current ruler of Rapture, Sophia Lamb, comes and steals her from him and leaves Delta for dead.
Who is Subject Delta and what does he do?
Yeah, this turns out to be the worst possible idea, as upon waking up Delta immediately goes on a rampage to rescue Eleanor.
The song being sung from his perspective, Delta loudly boasts that his human mind, which he seems to have retained some of, he routinely slaughters hordes of hostile splicers that Sophia sends his way, utilizing any and all Plasmids he finds along the way. Nothing is off limits for Johnny: electrifying pools of water, setting up mines to catch enemies off guard, photographing them so he can learn their weaknesses, hacking turrets to fight on his side, you name it. Since he's a Big Daddy, he's also not afraid to use his strength to overthrow his enemies.
During his escapades, he meets Sinclair and Dr. Tenenbaum, the former acting as his mission control and the latter offering to help him in exchange for rescuing Little Sisters. It's made clear that Delta doesn't trust either of them and is willing to kill them should they backstab him at any point, but regardless he does rescue the sisters while fighting off more hordes of Splicers. Eventually he finally finds Eleanor, now converted into a Big Sister, and the two take advantage of her upgrades, they go on a tag team rampage and finally kill Sophia Lamb, ending her tyranny over Rapture.
Is he Magnificent?
Sure. It's made abundantly clear that Delta's a Genius Bruiser, using his wits and environment to cleave through enemies and solve puzzles as much as his own strength. He's also insightful enough to know that trusting anyone in Rapture is a risky move and is said to be fully prepared for being betrayed. The song portrays him as a Boisterous Bruiser that shoots off puns and jokes based off his kills, and even then is a fucking Big Daddy shooting bars about how awesome he is how is that not cool.
Is he a Bastard?
It's made clear that Johnny Topside could not give any less of a shit about the goals of his allies and is focused solely on rescuing Eleanor. It's to the point that he admits he'll kill Sinclair and Tenenbaum if they go against their end of the bargain, and please note that they're unambiguously good people in the games. He does rescue other Little Sisters for the Doctor, but he's only doing it for the ATOM so he can upgrade himself. As a bonus, he's clearly having the time of his life brutally murdering Splicers, making puns about the Artois ways he kills them.
Ultimately, he truly cares for Eleanor and finds Sophia to be a disgusting sociopath, and at the end after finding Eleanor makes sure Sophia's reign ends once and for all.
Overall?
So how's he looking?
Again, if anyone's interested in that potential fourth candidate they can PM me, it's certainly worth the talk lol.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Yes to Delta and thank you for the honesty Zuxtron, in that case I or someone else can work with the EP and whip something up.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Lol for a second I thought canon!Delta was being proposed. Ah well, this one's nice too. Song!Delta
