Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Are we still taking about Soji?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah...how does he compare to the other bad guys?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lies and Violence!
Yes to the Warden, Walker and Jill, Valkyn, Grand Duc, crazy guy, and Chopin.
What's the work?
Batman: The Dark Knight Returns is an animated adaptation of the comic of the same name. In it, an aged Bruce comes out of retirement to take on the rising wave of crime and murder drowning Gotham... unwittingly awakening an old enemy in the process.
We already have the Mutant Leader up, but there's a special someone who has been left off because of the "too similar" rule. Now that that's gone, like with Richard III a while ago, I decided he should finally get some attention.
Who is the Joker?
Gotham's most infamous criminal, responsible for over six hundred murders prior to the beginning of the story. If one were to take the previous movie Year One as canon, he also attempted to poison the city's reservoir as his debut crime. However, with Batman's retirement, the Joker fell into a coma due to the disappearance of his obsession.
And then he returns. And the Joker begins to laugh.
Becoming a patient of an anti-Batman psychologist at Arkham, the Joker convinces him that he's reformed, and wishes to express his side of the story on a popular talk show. Like an idiot, the psychologist agrees. The obvious happens; Joker slits his psychologist's throat, before having the one minion still loyal to him after all these years gas the audience, killing 206 people with his Joker Venom. From there, he brainwashes a congressman into going insane and calling for a nuke strike on the country of Corto Maltese before falling off a skyscraper.
Batman eventually tracks him to Gotham's fairgrounds. The Joker has his minions try to blow up one of the roller coasters, while he goes on a rampage: taking a teenage girl hostage, taking a young boy hostage after randomly assaulting a bunch of people, and then just shooting whoever he comes across. Bruce catches up to him, of course, they have a brutal fight, and he eventually loses his cool long enough to partially snap the clown's neck.
Dying, the Joker goads Batman into finishing him off—and when he refuses, simply finds comfort in the thought that Gotham will burn him for his death anyway, proceeding to finish snapping his neck himself.
Mitigating factors?
Joker.
Heinous enough?
The Mutant Leader, who is already up, is plenty nasty on his own; he has his gang murder and steal to their hearts' content throughout Gotham, sparing not even children, and intends to have his forces raze the city to the ground. But that's the thing: he has an entire gang to command in his bloodthirst. The Joker's just a lone serial killer with a single minion and two... uh... robotic child doll suicide bombers? Oh, and that one lady with swastikas over her breasts, but she's apprehended before his scheme even starts. He still manages to kill hundreds of people in the talk show and attempts for plenty more, from bombing a fair ride to killing whatever random people he comes across.
The thing with the congressman and the nuclear strike? I'm not going to take as a serious part of his rapsheet—the senator wraps himself in an American flag, goes up to a roof and starts ranting to the streets below before falling to his death, there's no way that was going to go anywhere—but everything else? Easily passes muster.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, sure, if only for the studio gassing.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Tsuchida endangers 9 people to use them as meat shields and murders Kuroe but he was able to get excess to explosives to get down to the pyramid to begin and has a gun,
and Khufu is directly responsible for 10 people directly dying but he has supernatural powers,
and Soji is just a guy is stated on the official website to use his job to get dirt on others in society while being subject to the same vices, who only cares about himself and his appetites. Appetites which we are shown in game to be raping others with him bragging that he has been doing this for years, and after trying to rape Otogi he tries to rape a monster which he thought was a women by forcing himself on it showing where his true interests are and that this is how he lives his life on top of attempting to endanger both his and Ayuto's life.
Edited by umaprasis on Jul 21st 2023 at 8:22:30 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Eh, not sure he's bad enough compared to the other two.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
And invincible special came out today, I’d like to claim it
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To the joker
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Joker
The Crazed Man
Margarite Chopin
Valkyn of Culthairai
Grand Duc
Mr. Walker
Jill Roberts
The Warden
A nice swimmer
Oh heya. I'm here with a proposal that might fail. But hey, one can try. It's a bit hefty too, so buckle up as always.
What's the work?
Fire Emblem: Three Houses is the 16th entry of the Fire Emblem series, and the only Fire Emblem i completed so far (sorry i didn't have much patience for the other games).
Set on the country of Fodlan (separated by the Adrestian Empire, the Kingdom of Faerghus and the Leicester Alliance), we control our residential silent protagonist Byleth into exploring Garrent Mach, a church/school in the middle of Fodlan that specializes on training and educating the teens of this generation to grow up and handle their own respective area of expertice, be it being a royal or a strong commoner.
We pick between three parties to educate, The Black Eagles, The Blue Lions and The Golden Deer, each with their respective leader to represent them, of which we can pick to have different experiences to explore and different persepctives.
Now suprisingly, the game has very dark problems in it's roots. Racism, systematic oppression, child experimentation, and of course, war between the characters we can befriend. These problems have been implanted there by "Those Who Slither in the Dark", an Agarthan group of people who seek to ruin this country from it's roots. And short of a thousand years ago, they were represented by a ruthless warlord. The ultimate Nemesis of Fodlan...
Who is he? What has he done?
Nemesis is ultimately the overarching antagonist of the game, and the final boss of the Verdant Wind route. Presented as a once benevolent king who saved Fodlan from wicked gods that got corrupted by power, he's in truth more monstrous than intially presented.
A long time ago, the Agarthans waged war against Sothis (the progenitor god) and her children, the Nabateans for taking control of the ancient Fodlan, believing that they were superior to the gods that gifted them knowledge. They got mostly wiped out, and the survivors gathered to form "Those Who Slither in the Dark" to eventually take revenge upon them.
They asked for the help of Nemesis, who was just a bandit at the time, to help them with their plans by sneaking unto the sleeping goddess tomb to steal her bones, heart and blood. With this, they created the sword of the creator; by modifying her spine unto a sword, inserting her heart unto it and having Nemesis consume her blood and giving him the crest of flames (the so called "Fire Emblem" of this game).
With this, they went unto Zanado, a city where the Nabateans lived, and slaughtered everyone of Sothis' children to use their bodies in a simular vein of what they did with the sword of the creator and had the rest of Nemesis' men consume their blood to give them the powerful crests. The genocide was so bloody that the land where the city resided is colored red to this day.
After having commited the massacre, Nemesis recluted other people unto his clan and made them unkowingly consume the blood of those Nabateans to give them crests, eventually being known as "The Ten Ellites".
Seiros, the only pure surviving Nabatean of the massacre, waged war against Nemesis and The Ten Elites by rallying people like The Four Saints and Wiliam I, the future first emperor of the Adrestian empire. They managed to kill Nemesis (which we can see in the introductory cutscene) and hunted down the elites, having to rewrite history so that they never turned the way of Those Who Slither in the Dark ever again.
In the Verdant Wind route, which we get by choosing The Golden Deer, after having dealt with Edelgard, rescuing Rhea (who was Seiros with another name) and defeating Those Who Slither in the Dark, they pull out an ace on their sleeve by activating a switch that would resurrect Nemesis once again.
He wakes up, and first thing he does is tally his old army back, and ravage every city in it's place to kill Seiros once again for having done so to him. Every city that had the unfortunate placement of being on their way got ravaged and left with "no survivors". Even Hilda's brother, who was said to be a brilliant tactician got gravely injured by this army.
Our protag Byleth, Claude, and the rest of the Golden Deer alongside some other allies confront them in a final battle to put an end to the blood-stained history of Fodlan once and for all, often taling down on them for having to rely on eachother to take him down, and being succesful.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian excuse?
He was a bit bad at the start by being a bandit and all, and just gets worse and worse down the line. He willingly helped TWSITD in their actions and commited a genocide for his own gain, and while he did gave other people blood to give them crests, nothing implies that it wasn't just for his army to grow more powerful. The Ten Elites are nothing short of his minions to use in conquering.
While it's stated that the people did believe that he was a liberator from having expelled the "tyranical" rule of the goddess, he's truly out for himself and getting more power.
As for his agency as a revived "zombie", he does manage to taunt the heroes and recognize Byleth having the same crest that he had, which doesn't seem to say that he has any moral agency issues. He was a monster back then and now he's no different.
Heinousness?
Now here's where it gets shakey. Those Who Slither in the Dark members are no short of doing horrible actions to take down the goddess and rise up above them, and he does hae a bunch of his story told to us rather than shown.
However, his genocide of Zanado is basically the catalyst of the game. With that, Seiros gets turned into a raging beast who makes her untrustworthy of other countries being involved again like Nemesis, and being responsible for her creating the very flawed system that Fodlan had, which Edelgard hated, and which brought about the current war of the game. Alonside that, he helped create the ancient relics, weapons that are cursed to turn into monsters to those who don't have the correct crest to wield them, made from the bones of the Nabateans. The canyon that housed Zanado is now desolate and red due to how brutal and bloody the genocide was. The city was big too!
, which means that at least thousands were killed and had their remains used as weapons to grant power and conquer more.
And having argued of having no moral issues after being revived, he ravaged many cities to kill Seiros for having killed him (which is honestly reasonable for Seiros having done it, due to him being the ones who massacred her brothers and sisters alongside her mother). He may not have much variety with his actions, but having commited a grand genocide, and using the remains as weapons to kill more, which caused many of the events of the game seems to me like at least enough and a rather unique crime to qualify.
Veredict?
Personally, i would give a to The God Shattering Star.
Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Jul 22nd 2023 at 1:59:29 AM
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Nemesis. One of the easiest Yes that I've done
...definitely surprised how long he took to be proposed
Edited by KazuyaProta on Jul 21st 2023 at 12:28:15 PM
Watch me destroying my country
Yeah, I kinda overlooked him due to Thales, but....no objection here
Mr.
To Nemesis
Mr.
To Nemesis.
resident girlfail
Obvious to Nemesis. Surprised he wasn't done before.
Mr.
Sorry about that, I don’t know how to delete posts on here.
Goku Black
joker and nemesis
Not the Eye
to Crazy Man, Margarite, Joker and Nemesis
Edited by EmperorGeode on Jul 22nd 2023 at 12:38:35 PM
Yes to Duc, Margarite, Crazed Man, Joker and Nemesis
....Phenomenal
for Joker and Nemesis. I was going to make a joke about him almost killing Tom Hardy's career, but maybe that's too easy.
A nice swimmer
I thought about proposing Nemesis before and thought that maybe he was a bit too offscreen, but hey, genocide of an entire race did seem bad enough to propose him now.
Plus the new candidates approved after the offscreen revitions gave me enough to push through.
Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Jul 22nd 2023 at 2:06:00 AM
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
Time to catch up.
Abstaining on Soji due to the fact that eventually helps the group escape as gratutide for saving his live.
for Morgion
Abstain on the Walking Dead baddies (The Warden & Crazed Man). There are plenty of horrible humans who run places like with a iron fist as well as bandits who go around and kill any survivours they come across. So I'm not sure if they really stand out.
for Mr. Walke and Jill Roberts.
for Valkyn
for Grand Duc
for Margarite
for another Joker (Surprise, surprise. 
)
for Nemesis
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Nemesis. Do we actually see the genocide?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Looked a bit into Soji as I'd seen a video on the game a while back and was interested in double checking this whole thing of him helping out after saving him. Immediately after he offers to help out, Ayuto thinks to himself how Soji's kindness is an absolute lie and he's just trying to butter Ayuto up so Ayuto doesn't blow the whistle on him after they escape. Everything else Soji says and does absolutely fits this interpretation, so I'm comfortable giving him a . He's nothing more than a Token Evil Teammate.
EDIT: Also Nemesis.
Edited by finalsurvivor1 on Jul 22nd 2023 at 8:05:18 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
To Chopin
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.