Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Cut Shidou. Taking the A&M caption to the Caption Repair Thread.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, seems like a cut.
I assume Sentinel's Freudian Excuse disqualifies him?
Also, is Liu Hong a consensus cut?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cut Shidou
Goku Black
He uh doesn't count for a bunch of reasons. He becomes allies with the other sentinels later. And you know everything I just said is Played for Laughs. It's meant as a huge joke.
Edited by miraculous on Jan 4th 2023 at 3:46:11 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Think I’ll take the quotes to the General Page Quote Thread too, as the votes are split (I like the Major one slightly better) and it warrants more discussion.
The Draftsman of Doom
Cut Shido.
Keep Plutonian
Cut Hong and Shidou
As for Marjolaine, how much personal cruelty is there? Because the writeup isn't very illustrative of it.
I was thinking about rewriting Marjolaine, but anyway she was Leliana's mentor/lover but the moment Leliana saw something she shouldn't have (she saw the documents she was gonna use to start that war) she she stabs her, hands her over to psycho Harwen Raleigh, knowing full well he's gonna torture her for days and implied rape her, revealing to her after she escapes and kills Raleigh that she was always planning on betraying her eventually.
After Leliana became a nun she kept an eye to see if she was making any plans on revenge and when she joins the Warden to save the world she assumes she's actually just using them to try get to her, sends assassins after her, and when Leliana confronts she makes it clear she will never stop trying to get her, because she's convinced Leliana is just eternally plotting revenge against her since that's what she would do.
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Showtime!
Cut Shido
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Professor Gigachad
So there is a currently approved entry that looking into it further I have some issues with. That being from the TV Show Slasher.
- Season 1—The Executioner: Iain Vaughn is the Police Chief of Waterbury, who's revealed to have kidnapped 15-year-old Ariel Peterson, raping her in his car before keeping her imprisoned under his basement as his Sex Slave for five years. When a reporter falsely accuses Ariel's father of killing his daughter, Vaughn has a prostitute support that false claim, driving the father to commit suicide, while Vaughn keeps Ariel from escaping by threatening the life of their toddler son, Jake. When Sarah Bennett investigates Ariel's disappearance, Vaughn kills said prostitute to prevent her from being interviewed, before attempting to kill Sarah himself. When Sarah escapes and sends the authorities to Vaughn's residence, Vaughn tries to burn Ariel and Jake alive before attempting to leave Waterbury.
Now it is easy to gather that Iain Vaughn is a wretched, vile man of the highest calibre, and that isn't what I am disputing. What I do have an issue on is redeeming traits.
The current writeup mentions him killing a prostitute by having her overdose to prevent her from testifying, by the way, her name is Marjorie Travers. This is technically true, but what the writeup doesn't mention is what happens during the time he is killing Marjorie he starts breaking down, crying heavily, shaking, screaming as well as eventually slapping himself, and after she dies he is still in tears about it. Full disclosure I did learn about this from elsewhere but I did check out the scene myself and yes this is fully true. You can check out the scene yourself here to see the whole thing for yourself. He has no real pragmatic reason to do this as there is nobody to manipulate as the only other person in the room is Marjorie, the scene seems to be one of clear regret and sadness.
What you won't see in this video is that later on he angrily tells Sarah, "I was not a killer until you turned me in one Sarah!" basically showing that he didn't want to kill Marjorie and regrets doing so. While he is taking the blame off of himself what is being suggested is very clear, especially with the scene earlier.
I did check out the original proposal and this factor isn't even mentioned as a potential disqualifier.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
And what's normal for Orlesians?
Orlesian bard's generally stick to internal Orlesian politics, like getting blackmail on one noble for another, torture is not common at all among the bards or the nobles, and none of the other bards try to start wars.
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Quite unpredictable
You mentioned that Vaughn doesn't have any witnesses to his first breakdown, which might disqualify him because it shows he isn't trying to "cover up" the vileness of the act and has some regret for his disgusting actions. Does he have witnesses for the "you made me a killer, Sarah" lines?
Professor Gigachad
Nope there is nobody else besides him and Sarah. The latter of which he is currently abducting and has no reason to do fake this to.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 4th 2023 at 7:00:57 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Okay, I'm starting to remember why I didn't post this guy way back when I watched the first season. Cut him.
Welp, bye bye then!
Showtime!
I was going to ask if the second part was more of a Frollo-esque justification, but yeah, cut him
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?I say cut Vaughn, that sounds like even if he's a major POS that is at least 1 crime he regrets
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Professor Gigachad
I know you already are voting cut, but to clarify, no isn't really like that. He isn't trying to justify what he does by blaming the person he is trying to kill for "making" him this way. He feels regret over what he does and thinks that it is someone else's fault for trying to uncover his crimes forcing him (in his mind) to kill her even though he didn't want to. Never My Fault for sure but nothing really contradicting the way he feels.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 4th 2023 at 7:20:58 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Vag.
It's said in a codex entry about Orlais in Origins that "More blood has been drawn as a result of the Grand Game than any war the Orlesians have fought." So, it's fairly normal for Orlesians to partake in murder and other assorted illegal activities, usually via a proxy but can be done themselves.
I'll also say that Bard training regularly consists of weapon training. The Masked Empire notes that there are several drills Bards regularly practice that involve knife mastery, mainly focusing on cutting parts of an enemy's body that would lead to fast exsanguination (wrists, throat, etc.) and also how to kill an enemy without getting blood on themselves (so as not to blow their cover). And one of the reasons Bards are trained this way is because they are used as assassins.
E: I can't spell :\
Edited by Hello83433 on Jan 4th 2023 at 10:48:40 AM
CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floorsKilling people is one thing, days long torture and trying to start a major war is another. Marjolaine punches above her weight class with the war and her betrayal and hunting of Leliana is what I think pushes her over
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
Ah, so this one of those settings where unless you commit multiple genocides or something you're not even worth talking about
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her