Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Goku Black
BTW does Yazan do anything in his return in the manga sequel. I know crow was checking it so wonder if it has anything to push him over.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Gentle Laborer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Gundam mangas are not exactly part of the official canon, but if we treated them as sequels, then Yazan would have been removed a long time ago. His manga counterpart is basically in the middle of a "redemption" arc, he's still a huge jerk but one who genuinely cares about his fellow pilots.
Goku Black
Ah okay. Than I'll need to vote remove. Would it be possible for him to count in the animated film trilogy? Since that's an alternate continuity?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Gentle Laborer
Huh... There's a good possibility he counts in the trilogy, I'll look into it.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
As far as I know his Freudian Excuse is exclusive to manga continuity.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jan 29th 2024 at 3:45:00 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So basically, Yazan doesn't do enough on his own, and there's not enough time between him and his expies?
As for Paptimus, if his character page is accurate, he seems like he may be a WIE, among other things.
Actually...are the side materials dealing with Bask Om's Freudian Excuse canon?
Edited by ACW on Jan 29th 2024 at 1:31:31 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Om's stuff is from an art book and is a few lines. It's glossed over lol.... To the point some of the stuff he does would be extreme even for it.
It also doesn't come up anywhere in any of the actual shows.
It's also been discussed here multiple times so....
Edit : oh Wait is it only in the manga. Didn't know that. Yeah that's fine. Made a mistake from mmerlu. Tbh I'm just going off what other people have said about it so got comfused
Edited by miraculous on Jan 29th 2024 at 10:52:04 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Cut Yazan.
Which one of the Marvel Fan Works quotes are we going with because I prefer the Carnage one personally, even though both are good.
Also header suggestion:
"Just like the source material, Fan Works based on the Marvel Universe and related media have countless pure evil villains."
Edited by Bullman on Jan 29th 2024 at 3:12:38 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I too favor the Carnage one.
For the header, we could just copy from Monster: DC Fan Works (with the necessary changes).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I wouldn't be opposed to that, but I would personally prefer a unique one.
So um, I just looked in YMMV.Exalted Spirits (YMMV pages for character sheets? Seems legit) and while the 2E Dowager is in fact supposed to be listed as a CM, somebody added a whole section about her 3E version not being that. In addition, the Ebon Dragon has an entry that almost certainly wasn't run through the proposal thread. Should I clean that up?
Jogo
Remove those two unapproved CM entries.
[cracks knuckles and smites]
Oh someone beat me to it
Edited by Voyd211 on Jan 29th 2024 at 5:07:50 AM
A total has-been.
I vote Keep Yazan, though I'd not be torn up over him going.
If the matter of Tsumugi is still open, I say cut too. I never felt she belonged since despite playing the "Mastermind" ROLE for the show she was on, she was ultimately the middleman between the worldwide Danganronpa audience and Team Danganronpa, the former who she straight up refers to as the real Mastermind and who indeed become the Final Boss (through K1-B0) just as Junko was the Final Boss in the previous two. Her feelings of liking the other players also seemed sincere on her part (albeit twisted in how she shows it), and it's left ambiguous whether or not there was part of her that actually wanted the show to end at that point (which would make her contradictory actions such as outing the existence of the show to the others on the show itself, still live on air,make more sense) so that she could die along with her friends and the show she'd given her life to.
V3 Monokuma is worth an EP, but I lean more towards "no" for him since he was also created to perform a part specifically to Team Danganronpa and the global audience's liking, and he's right there waving with Tsumugi as the whole studio goes down, making it questionable how much of a choice he ever had in doing anything other than follow along with what the designated "Mastermind" actor/character (Tsumugi in this case) did on the show.
Edited by ANewMan on Feb 3rd 2024 at 1:20:23 PM
Cut Yazan. I'll give a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Bull's header and I'm fine with either quote (should probably take them to quotes suggestion).
On that note, didn't we agree to group the two MCU works on that page together?
Monster.Fan Works is throwing an overly-long page warning, so it needs to be split.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
We're working on that.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cut Yazan. While the other Sociopathic Soldier types are mostly in other universes and as such he dosen't need to compete with them and his redemption arc is non-canon(Gundam Manga are very much published fan fiction for the most part—there is a ongoing Zeta Gundam manga retelling that flipped a lot of events such as Dakar happening right after Hong Kong and potentially pulled a Spared By Adaptation on Four. Of course there are exceptions that fit into the canon but they aren't canon unless given an animated adaptation treatment), he is immediately followed in the same universe by Rakan, who does far worse.
Scirocco is an arguable WIE, dosen't participate in Bask's atrocities and in general fails the HS.
Edited by xie323 on Jan 30th 2024 at 5:26:09 AM
He/Him
The mods haven't called the crowner yet, though they should cause it's been a week, but the Wiki Talk crowner about Manhwa and Manhua example placement agreed that examples from them should be moved to their own folder/section.
So we'll have to move some examples from Monster.Anime And Manga someplace else (Monster.Other Media probably)
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Heck. So be it.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Jogo
All of the Manhua and Manhwa CM entries have now been moved from the Animanga sandboxes to the Other Media Sandbox.
Edit: I moved the last two entries back, apologizes for the inconvenience.
Edited by jlvs200s on Jan 30th 2024 at 5:52:32 PM
"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
The last two Manhua look they're from the anime, so should probably be moved back.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
A New Man Monokuma waving is just Monokuma being Monokuma. He is not being forced to do anything. He is an Ai just like Keebo who we know could go against his function. Monokums sticks with the killing game thing because he enjoys it, and gets disappointed when it gets foiled and agrees to die because he wanted to go out in style rather then “a half asssed ending” also while Tsumugi is not CM please do not downplay her
She does not care for the students at all, she just sees them as things she create and mocks them for being fictional and is a hypocrite fkr not understanding the power of fiction
Also for some reason people added her agreeing to die was redeeming but nope she only did that to go out with a bang plus she had no say in the killing game ending because the outside world took control at that point
So while she doesn’t count that is only for being a cog and it not being clear if she was brainwashed
Monokuma doesn’t really have those issues as we know Ais made by Team danganronpa have agency and Monokuma was part of all those killing games in the past which is brought up thanks to what happened in the 52 one so not offscreen villainy either
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Jan 30th 2024 at 8:20:09 AM
Yeah, Monokuma waving with Tsumugi isn't much of a disqualifier. It's actually the AI argument I'm skeptical about. I don't recall it ever being stated one way or another if he was an AI, or just a robot being voiced and controlled by someone we never see.
Even if he is an AI though, I still don't think he has the agency in V3. This isn't like AM or SHODAN where they explicitly grow beyond their programming. Monokuma is, for all intents and purposes, doing exactly what he was made to do.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jan 30th 2024 at 12:08:39 PM
Keebo says Monokuma is an Ai like him in chapter 1
So yes he is confirmed to be an Ai
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Jan 30th 2024 at 9:24:13 AM
Cut Yuzan
"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him