Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
An Eldritch Troper
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Wow, that's great. I think we should keep the structure of the page as it is, with X-Men and Spider-Man as they are.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Agreed, unless someone has a better idea.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I have a question regarding this guy
- Jure Grando Alilović was known as the first recorded vampire. A wicked sorcerer in life who captured and murdered children to use their blood for immortality, Jure Grando eventually succumbed to mortality, only to rise again as a monstrous strigoi. Raping his wife, Jure embarked on a 16-year-long killing spree, feasting on the blood of his own neighbors until it was believed that to go outside at night was a death sentence
I am not challenging his inclusion but instead his categorisation. Can he really be considered part of Slavic Mythology? Jure was a real life person who lived at time when Slavs, including Croats in Istria, had long ago abandoned faith in their gods. If christian Greeks have a legend about some real life Ottoman, or from whatever nation that was in conflict with Greeks, general who turned in a werewolf after dead, and rapes women and eat child, would he be put under Classical Mythology?
It should be noted Morbach Werewolf, also a real life person, was put under Germanic Folklore instead of Germanic Mythology.
May be we could just add Istrian Folklore before his name?
Showtime!
I think Slavic mythology is used in academic setting to refer to all Slavic folklore, not just that of Slavic Paganism
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Generally, I think we treat "myths" and "legends" of real persons in the same way we treat fictionalized depictions of historical persons — provided the myths and stories of them have actual stories to them.
For example, William de Soulis was recorded of him as a real person, but everything we know from him in Scottish folklore is just that, and likely barely resembles the man's real life.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
kiby :]
Apologies if this is offtopic, but where's the Mr. Miller example listed here from? I'm rather curious about it but a source for where he's from isn't mentioned.
RIP Toriyama
Btw, got a long overdue cut to process:
- Joker: The titular Joker is once again presented as a madman bent on creating as much chaos and destruction as possible. Managing to get himself be released from Arkham Asylum, the Joker immediately began rebuilding his criminal empire. Starting off by skinning a former member of his gang for allowing Joker's influence in Gotham to crumble while he was gone, Joker forced "Abner" to work for him by threatening to feed him to Killer Croc. As his next move Joker goes to slaughter countless criminals and mob bosses to get himself to the top of Gotham's underground. Starting a gang war with Two-Face, Joker murdered all of his henchmen, afterwards raping the wife of one of his closest men, Johnny Frost, because Johnny lied to him. Deciding to have some "fun", Joker begins to murder innocent people, at one point invading the apartment of peaceful old couple and brutally killing them for no reason.
◊ and IIRC the original proposer tried to say it was just a "drugged out haze" or some such but the comic is plainly not communicating that. It's a random, quiet, aside scene that is never addressed before or after, but it blatantly shows Joker in between his crimes having a breakdown over something while hugging Harley for comfort. It's an attempt, however odd, at giving him some humanity and I think it pretty handily disqualifies him. Snip snip, says I.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Woagh
The Ultimate Lifeform
voting cut on the Joker
(mod edited)
Edited by Twiddler on Nov 24th 2023 at 6:13:30 AM
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
Ultimate Moral Compass
Cut Joker
"No running in the halls!"
He/Him
Cut Joker
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
(Retracted)
Gonna go with a snip
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Nov 23rd 2023 at 12:21:20 PM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Cut Joker
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Cut Joker. 
Goku Black
Oh cut rapist joker. I've heard about that panel but assumed their were the usual other pamels of him abusing Harley that usually indict he didn't give a shit. Since it's not their definite cut.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Not the Eye
Cut Joker
Cut the clown
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I guess cut Joker.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
“If I had a nickel for every time we had to cut a version of Joker due to one scene I would have two nickels but it’s weird that it happened twice”
Cut Joker
Also, I want to suggest a small fix for Joffrey's entry from Dynamite Comics. Can we change "father" to "supposed father" because Robert is not actually his father and it's factually incorrect? His entry for Game of Thrones also calls Robert "supposed father" by the way.
Edited by WatTambor on Nov 24th 2023 at 3:48:33 PM
Cut Joker
Can we replace begining of Jure Grando's entry from this
- Jure Grando Alilović was known as the first recorded vampire.
To this
- Istrian Folklore:Jure Grando Alilović was known as the first recorded vampire.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Before I make that change for Joffrey, has the comic revealed that it's not his real father?
I haven't read the comics but they should have revealed it by now because the revelation happens in the very first book of the ASOIAF series and the comics are a pretty faithful adaptation of the books. In fact, the reason why Ned Stark goes against Cersei in the first place (which is something that also happens in the first book) is because he learns of her affair with Jaime and that the children don't actually belong to Robert.
Edited by WatTambor on Nov 24th 2023 at 10:52:13 PM
It took...much more time than I'm proud of![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]")
, but I've added the universes for Monster: Marvel Animation. I had to play around with the first group a bit (X-Men and Spidey being in the same universe makes things tough; do we wanna push everything up/down/whatever a level?).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts