Dakari-King Mykan and Starfleet Magic Cleanup

Not sure how much we should be relying on Mykan for this. It feels like a violation of The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours to some degree

I think having the author help out will be useful for something's like possible misinformation and inaccuracies but I don't think we need their input for every entry that's brought up. We should be able to use our own discernment for the most part when it comes to deciding what tropes are valid, and what needs to be removed as complaining and what not.

I don't know anything about these fics so I don't know the problems surrounding the pages besides complaining and shoehorning.

@Plasma Power

Villain Decay: Discord, god of chaos and, in general, considered one of the best characters in My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, is reduced to a brainwashed monster henchman of Big Bad Titan near the end of the story and loses his reality warping abilities. To add insult to injury, he gets Killed Off for Real by Celestia.

-In spite that this sounds like petty complaining... Yes, I'm afraid that's true. (It may stay as it is) It's just that I don't like Discord at all (Won't go into detail to avoid character bashing)

The sequel also does this to Queen Chrysalis, taking away what character and competence she had and reducing her to a generic Bad Boss who sits back and lets her minions do all the work while lacking any personality other than being evil (which is literally the only type of Big Bad that ever shows up in the series). "in general, considered one of the best characters in My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic".

-Minus the complaining, this is true to. Chrysalis is made for the new world, and must follow the formula that I give to her. and as for "Best Character" I'm afraid that's a matter of Opinion, not fact.

This sentence didn't age well. Anyways, was Discord still considered a villain at the point this was written and how the story writes him?

-Oh, yes he was.

As you know, most people began making their fics when the series was still very young. In my case, as far as Season 2. Therefore "Keep Calm and Flutter" did not exist yet, so I was free to do as I wanted, and even after the later seasons aired... we can't just go back and overhaul all our chapters because of a few technicalities. (The canon is set, it cannot be broken)

These days, I have a rule: I only allow the FIM Canon to go as far as Season 3 and the First Equestria Girls movie; after that, everything else never happened. As for "Keep Calm and Flutter" I did a little tinkering, so that ultimately Discord reverted back to his villainous ways, and therefore was cast in stone again. So he was always evil.

@K4713-7R0P3R

Only way to find out is to keep going. (Look over each and every section one-by-one)

@Macron Notes

The problem with my fics is that, for a very, very long time (Since 2006, even longer) I have been the target of people who mock, ridicule my works wrongfully and for quick thrills and lulz. Many of those people are now here on TV-Tropes are posting this stuff in attempt to mock and riff me more (Hence why many of their entries and pages int he past were taken down, for violating site policies) They also have a knack of not reading the stories too well, or understanding how things really work (They don't know, or they don't care) Some people didn't even read the stories at all and just took my bullies words at the drop of a hat. As a result, the tropes with my stuff on it are filled with vast amounts of misinformation, and it's about time it got cleared up, and that's why it is proper for me to be here to deliver the Truth and Facts behind things. I'm aware of the "Author holds no real power" and stuff like that, but just the same the tropes are supposed to be built with "Fact" not misinformation and simple opinions.

Hey, Mykan... I just wanted to ask you something random. I was wondering why Grand Ruler didn't lock the Star Stones in special safes only he can track down before sending them off?

Edited by K4713-7R0P3R on May 16th 2022 at 12:33:25 PM

Hey, Mykan... I just wanted to ask you something random. I was wondering why Grand Ruler didn't lock the Star Stones in special safes only he can track down before sending them off?

-Well for one thing, if he knows the secrets of the Star Stones, every bad guy in the galaxy will come after him and try to get the info, or even kidnap him. That's why he mostly kept the legend of the stones to himself.

-Even if he did lock them in safes, and gave Lightning and Friends a special key with the ability to open them... the story will not really have changed.

Like Mykan himself said, a lot of these entries are outright misinformative, rather than just bashy. We can remove the obvious negative examples without any input, but there might be some misinterpretation or exaggeration that's harder to spot without knowing the story... Which, though I've read one of them a long time ago, I can't say I do. (It wasn't even Starfleet, I think it was just the one of Lightning Dawn taking quests from the Grand Ruler and meeting the other ponies.)

Edited by WarJay77 on May 16th 2022 at 1:35:00 PM

@War Jay 77

I think you mean the original Story "My Little Unicorn: Magic is Believing" which was later revised and renamed "My Brave Pony: Starfleet Magic"

Yeah, that's the one.

I am of the opinion that the Hypocrite trope for the Space Ponies page needs to be reinstated with some edits. After all, pages on other works note characters as being hypocrites, even accidental ones, such as Twilight, Star Wars, My Immortal, The Prayer Warriors and Star vs. the Forces of Evil.

[They insist on making the Equestrian ponies drop terms like "everypony" for the sake of political correctness, because not everyone's a pony. -Well, what do you think. There are dragons, Minotaur, yaks, griffons, ect, ect... you can't say "every pony" to them, can you?]

The only times we see the Equestirans using the terms and the Space Ponies correcting these terms are when only ponies are present. And Spike thinks of himself as a pony, as seen in "Dragon Quest". Admittedly, the paragraph this is a part of is rather vague and seems to...meander. Conclusion: Needs elaborating.

[-Not only are they referred to as "original space ponies", but they also look down heavily on their Equestrian counterparts, which is the opposite of politically correct. -The Equestrians are not their counterparts, and they don't look down on them, but they do show disappointment when they refuse to understand or realize the full truth and/or seriousness of things.]

And do they show disappointment to other Space Ponies if they also refuse to understand or realize the full truth and/or seriousness of things?

[They happily criticize any aspect of other cultures that they don't agree with, but if anyone voices complaints about their culture, the complainers are looked down on as degenerate and wrong. -Wrong! Again, they do not look down on those disagree with them (without good reason) but they have no tolerance for trouble-makers. The people have the right to complain, but they have no right to stir up trouble and break the laws do they?]

There is nothing inaccurate about this paragraph, as shown here:

{"He mocks us all day and night. I think he’s really looking for a fight." said Rhymey.

Everyone felt very annoyed, but they decided to let it slide.}

{That’s when the soft sounds of the morning were broken by the sounds of an angry mob lead by Ace came marching into the area hollering bad things about Starfleet and holding signs which also gave bad messages. "Humph!" grunted Twilight "Just pretend you don’t see them."

Everyone in the entire café simply turned their backs to the miserable mob. "Hey!" snapped Ace "We’re talking to you. Starfleet has got to go!" His mob of friends seemed to agree with him, but everyone in café just ignored him completely, and passersby took no notice and just walked right past the buffoon.}

{There is nothing wrong with the rhyming I do. But if you think so, then something’s wrong with you."}

Note that in the last example from the source, Rhymey actually states that there's something wrong with Ace. Therefore, they do look down on complainers as wrong, at the very least. Conclusion: Needs reinstating with maybe a slight edit.

[When a hero is the last member of a dying race, nearly everyone around them feels sorry for them (see all the times Lightning being the last living Harmonian is wheeled out for cheap sympathy points). -A trope like that makes it sound like Lightning has nothing to be upset about and he has suffered nothing. (I suggest that be removed because it is highly discourteous)]

It does not make it sound like he has nothing to be upset about. We shouldn't remove this entry just because it's highly discourteous but perhaps it should be reworded to remove snark.

[When a villain is the last member of a dying race, Starfleet will kill them (or possibly send them to one of their Hellhole Prisons where they must serve multiple life sentences), thus rendering said villain's species extinct with Starfleet feeling absolutely no remorse. -Things do happen, sometimes beyond control. What we're dealing with is justice and peace and order in the galaxy. You break the law=you go to jail. You cannot be imprisoned or stopped otherwise, they destroy you. They're not trying to be heartless and wipe out races, they're just doing their job and trying to save lives of the innocent.]

Can someone please give examples of people in other franchises preventing a species from going extinct, even in the last member is evil and unstoppable? Conclusion: Pending.

[Prior to the start of the fic, Starla's dad claimed that Starfleet is a group of violent, overly militant, Knight Templars with Black-and-White Insanity, and Starla, Lightning, and Krysta diss him for it. -Starla's father just couldn't see Starfleet for the good it does, and only saw them for their flaws and mixed up views.]

This paragraph is still accurate as it states that he claimed that is what they are like.

[However, they've readily admitted that they think Violence Is the Only Option, condemned entire species as evil while praising themselves and their allies as noble and innocent, committed genocide multiple times, dehumanize non-living enemies even when said enemies are shown to have personalities of their own, and incarcerated and tortured dissenters at least three times over the course of the series. -The villains they face are usually and totally unreasonable beings. They have no wish to negotiate, or be persuaded to change. They just want to destroy and conquer... almost like Power Rangers or even Batman does do. Starfleet only does what they have to do. (within procedure)]

Batman does not kill at all if he can help it; the number of times he's killed can be counted with just two hands. In fact, he actually brought Bane back to life after killing him in Batman: Arkham Origins. Also, just because bad guys're evil doesn't make Starfleet being cruel to prisoners okay as seen here:

{"QUIET!!" a guard shouted as he walked along the cell-bock, "KEEP IT DOWN, ALL OF YOU OR YOU WON’T BE FED TONIGHT!!! I MEAN IT!!"}

{The guards saluted, and were grateful she showed up, and she gazed pitifully at the prisoners, "You see that?" she said threateningly as she motioned to the unconscious convict, "Anyone else who tries will get it worse! GOT IT?!"

Though Brass knew the other aliens prisoners, he still felt the way the Starfleet ponies were behaving was worse.}

Also, there's this:

{The guard put his hand on Mako’s shoulder "Come on, kid, time to go." and he softly led Mako through a portal which would take them both, Sienna and the other gaurds to the prison planet.}

The "kid" part was not a figure of speech; they sent an actual child to prison instead of a youth detention center. Conclusion: Reinstate with addition of this tidbit.

[In the third chapter of the rewritten Season 1, Lightning suggests blowing up the Dark Planet with Titan on it, but dismisses the thought because, to quote the text, "Starfleet was not a murderous force. They couldn't go around blowing worlds up without good reason or cause." While they do bring down a few enemies through non-lethal means, they mostly don't display any particular reluctance to kill enemies they consider irredeemable (including Titan, ironically enough), and they actually chew Twilight out for having an issue with killing. -the bit about destroying monsters has already been covered (If it has to be done, they do it) As for Twilight, she's still learning about the many kinds of enemies out there, and how she cannot persuade them to just change. Some enemies can be captured, some cannot, and therefore must be destroyed.]

Is there any instance where Starfleet was reluctant to kill? Conclusion: Pending.

[A particularly notable example is in season 3 where they don't go after Raven because she's potentially too strong for them to handle. Except she's pretty small potatoes compared to the likes of Titan before her, several villains afterward, and King Sombra in the same season, whom they fought with no hesitation. Additionally, she is an Equestrian, which has been stated several times to be incapable of matching the strength of even the weakest Space Pony. -No actually, Raven has 1000 years of training, so she is extremely strong and powerful. She's no small potato, which also rules out the (weak Equestrian bit) She is trained, she is strong, she is now on par with the strength of the fighters. Therefore, she is tough.]

It should be noted that many of the villains and heroes in this series are as old, if not older then Raven, and have likely been training for that long too. Also, "on par" means "equal" as shown here, meaning that, if a dozen of Starfleet's best fought her simultaneously, she would have gone down. Furthermore, if she was truly that powerful, she would have just barged into the palace and plowed through any obstacles in her way instead of relying on subterfuge. Conclusion: Reinstate with additional points.

[Speaking of which, this decision led to the death of Twilight Sparkle. Despite the fact that they could have swooped in and fought like they did with all of the above-mentioned villains but chose not to, it's her that's at fault for not following orders not to go after Raven. Not the supposedly superior Space Ponies, no siree. Also, back in season 1, Abra-Kadabra and Lightning Dawn both stepped out of line to attack the villains at different points, and they didn't get so much as a slap on the wrist. -The other fighters were off dealing with Harkin who had the Crystal Heart, which was a far greater importance. As for Lightning, he was ordered to follow Twilight and stop her from fighting a battle she would not be able to win. and yes... Abra did step out of line, but given the circumstances then (He succeeded) Twilight willfully defied orders and questioned them on several occasional like a stubborn child just begging to cause trouble.]

So the ends justify the means? If she had succeeded in beating Raven, she wouldn't have been in trouble? Also, are there not other soldiers in Starfleet that could have assisted Twilight? Conclusion: Reinstate with snarkiness toned down.

[They called the Insectos genocidal, but by season 5, they've already canonically rendered at least one species - the Elixians - extinct, and by the end of season 5, the Insectos themselves become their second (known) victims. -This has already been covered. (extinction is a possibility, but sometimes it just can't be helped)]

Did Starfleet try to prevent Pinsar from killing his troops? Were the non-combatants, including the Insecto children, spared? Conclusion: Pending.

[They are furious at Tan Shi's misandry and proclaim that they truly care about gender equality. But looking at all of the times they dismiss a female character's suffering while crying rivers over a male character's suffering, look down on women for trying to act ladylike while not batting an eye at men for similar behavior, and being much quicker to reward male individuals for stepping out of line to help people, like Lightning and Abra, than with female individuals, like Twilight and Pinkie, it's very easy to see how Tan's points resonate more deeply with them than they realize. -This seems just petty... Tan Shi grew up in a male dominate, chauvinistic world, the ponies live in more equality. And besides, Tan Shi wants to kill all men, even those who are good.]

One one hand, the paragraph is still accurate. On the other hand, perhaps it is comparing a mountain to a molehill. Conclusion: Reinstate?

[In particular, certain individuals, like Lightning and Starla, have a track record of belittling any woman for offenses ranging from "being too silly" to "takes issue with their misbehavior", and the former even brushed away Cadance's grief over her lost brother in favor of his own tragic backstory, and seriously thought of hitting Twilight when they switched bodies and she complained that she can't control his powers. -It depends on the situation and how the lady is acting, that's not being sexist. As for Cadance, Lightning was merely trying to help Cadance understand she has a reason to live and fight, and he hates seeing her act like she's lost her whole world (when she hasn't) He understands she's hurt, and thus shares his own pain with her— he knows what it's like to lose things, and he just trying to help her.]

Have any men been belittled for offenses ranging from "being too silly" to "takes issue with their misbehavior"? Conclusion: Reinstate and either edit bit about Cadance or remove bit about Cadance.

[In the seventeenth episode of the ninth season, they learn that, when settling disputes, Vistulans compete in a series of games and competitions, with losers getting banished and shunned. They consider this requirement of settling disputes to be a barbaric law, even before finding out what happens to the losers. However, in the third episode of the same season, Applejack and an Earth Pony named Apple Spice find out they're engaged to be married by a certain time and the contract cannot be changed at all. They must get married, although they don't want to and Applejack's parents, the ones who arranged the marriage, changed their minds or they will be penalized according to the law. -The law is the law, no matter what race you are from. The Vistualans have their laws, and as barbaric as they are, it's still the law. As for Applejack's marriage, that was an Equestrian law (Not a Starfleet law) as it originated before the Starfleet era. Laws can be changed, but that doesn't give you the right to ignore them or break them, or interfere with the affairs and laws of others (Like how Star Trek is not allowed to interfere with the evolution or laws of species) We can only set examples and persuade them to change.]

And the laws can't be changed by the rulers of either society because...? It doesn't matter that the law originated in Equestria, it hasn't been changed by either Celestia or Celesto. Actually, there was no mention of changing the law in the paragraph at all. Say, did any character ever complain about the marriage law? Conclusion: Pending.

[Lightning Dawn calls Specter a coward for attacking him while he is a child. However, Starfleet fights only when they are sure they can win. -True, I can't argue with that, but it's not being hypocritical, and it still does raise the old concern "Picking on creatures smaller/weaker than you are" So I wouldn't say it's hypocrtical.]

Elaboration is in order. Conclusion: Reinstate with elaboration.

[In the Season X episode, "Faith of the Blind", Starfleet reprimands the Blisstonians for thinking that their belief can heal their planet...despite the fact that belief was what brought back Equestria and Unicornicopia and combined them into one planet way back in the first season. -Horribly incorrect. The ponies revived their world not just through prayer, but through magic too. The Blistonians, they were just making wishes upon stars and expected them to come true (It doesn't work that way)]

Maybe that should have been pointed out in the fic. Conclusion: Unless elaboration is provided in fic itself, reinstate.

It should be noted that the situations that are being compared and contrasted don't have to be the exact same.

Edited by N.Harmonik on May 16th 2022 at 3:57:25 PM

Re: The Hypocrite issue:

The issue with Hypocrite is that it is supposed to be an objective trope, not one that depends on audience interpretation. It's just been extremely poorly enforced. Instead of keeping misuse around for the sake of consistency, what we really need is a TRS cleanup effort.

Also, your post is massive. I can't read all that in one burst.

You feel the "hypocrite" trope needs repair due to being used subjectively instead of objectively? I don't think I know how to do that...

My apologies for the long post. I thought it best to address the entirety of the "hypocrite" trope in one go. Try reading it in separate bursts.

What's needed is a Wick Check and then to wait for an open slot, which might take a while, but it's much more helpful than just letting the problem fester.

Very well, we'll put away the "hypocrite" trope for now.

I think Palette Swap should stay with some rewording to get rid of snarkiness and natter. At the end of the day, many characters (especially the Starfleet humans) do look the exact same except for colours and perhaps hairstyles.

Edited by N.Harmonik on May 16th 2022 at 5:24:24 AM

Not trying to cause trouble, just throwing in my "speaking"

The only times we see the Equestirans using the terms and the Space Ponies correcting these terms are when only ponies are present. And Spike thinks of himself as a pony, as seen in "Dragon Quest". Admittedly, the paragraph this is a part of is rather vague and seems to...meander. Conclusion: Needs elaborating.

-But on a corrective standard, non-pony characters should not truly be addressed as "everypony/anypony/somepony" especially since there is now one human in United Equestria.

And do they show disappointment to other Space Ponies if they also refuse to understand or realize the full truth and/or seriousness of things?

-That seems like a petty complaint (Best way I can word it) The Space Ponies have been shown it from time to time. Take Season 2: When Lightning and Starla got into a fight over a misunderstanding, and ended up causing vast amounts of troubles... their friends were upset with them, and their royal majesties were especially and disciplined them. I don't think it really should make that much a difference how often the Equestrians are looked down on more than the Space Ponies.

There is nothing inaccurate about this paragraph, as shown here:

Note that in the last example from the source, Rhymey actually states that there's something wrong with Ace. Therefore, they do look down on complainers as wrong, at the very least. Conclusion: Needs reinstating with maybe a slight edit.

-This has been dealt with (several times) Ace Ray was showing signs of extreme ignorance, stubbornness, and mental instability. Rhymey was quite right to note that. The main reasons they look down on guys like Ace is because, (Like most beings) they don't take kind to loud-mouthed, ill-tempered bullies, especially if they don't know what they're talking about. (Ace has no idea how Starfleet really works and keeps mouthing off at people. That's not very enlightning)

It does not make it sound like he has nothing to be upset about. We shouldn't remove this entry just because it's highly discourteous but perhaps it should be reworded to remove snark.

-The fact that the entire subject itself is not really relevant to the story series at all (We're not focusing much on extinction or things like that, just beating the monsters) I can understand how people want to feel, but they really need to stop picking at every single solitary possible detail that could possibly exist or be addressed in an entire story.

Then again, Starfleet did help Distraught at the end of the Starfleet Movie prevent his species from going extinct.

Can someone please give examples of people in other franchises preventing a species from going extinct, even in the last member is evil and unstoppable? Conclusion: Pending.]]

-I don't know how to answer this (I don't quite get the drift of the sentence: Rephrase please)

Batman does not kill at all if he can help it; the number of times he's killed can be counted with just two hands. In fact, he actually brought Bane back to life after killing him in Batman: Arkham Origins.

-That still does not really cut things. Any hero... all heroes... will kill if they absolutely must (If there is no other option) Batman found his options (He was lucky) but that's not what happens with Starfleet villains, they aren't like Bane.

• Example: "Florabite" the very first MOTW Starfleet faced in season one. It may look like a living, breathing creature, but really... it's just a bunch of wild flowers cursed with magic to turn into the creature. This monster has no heart, no soul, and cannot be turned good or be imprisoned... there's no other option but to destroy it.

• Example 2: "Fratello" He has been taken over by evil machine, and he can barely find the power to hold it back. In-spite of his good inner nature of his true self, Fratello cannot be saved...

• The robot is immune to most kinds of magic; it cannot be magically turned good, nor can it be contained by a force-field, or even be imprisoned.
• Starfleet cannot reprogram the robot either, (As well being unable to even approach it or hold it down) it's technology is completely alien to them. They wouldn't know where to start and they don't have the time to study it.

...Even Fratello himself knows its hopeless, and he pleads for death so that the robot will be destroyed and his evil be undone.

...It's a dirty thing to do, and it's not enjoyable... but it must be done.

Also, just because bad guys're evil doesn't make Starfleet being cruel to prisoners okay as seen here:

{"QUIET!!" a guard shouted as he walked along the cell-bock, "KEEP IT DOWN, ALL OF YOU OR YOU WON’T BE FED TONIGHT!!! I MEAN IT!!"}

{The guards saluted, and were grateful she showed up, and she gazed pitifully at the prisoners, "You see that?" she said threateningly as she motioned to the unconscious convict, "Anyone else who tries will get it worse! GOT IT?!"

Though Brass knew the other aliens prisoners, he still felt the way the Starfleet ponies were behaving was worse.}

-I'm afraid this seems to me like just another complaint.

Still, how do you expect a prison to be run? These are total bad guys who did very horrible things (and as I recall an Unintentionally Unsympathetic section) "they are irredeemable and deserve no mercy"

Also, there's this:

{The guard put his hand on Mako’s shoulder "Come on, kid, time to go." and he softly led Mako through a portal which would take them both, Sienna and the other gaurds to the prison planet.}

The "kid" part was not a figure of speech; they sent an actual child to prison instead of a youth detention center. Conclusion: Reinstate with addition of this tidbit.

-Mako is well over 200 years old. He may be a kid to his own species, but in the view of Starfleet, he's old enough. Just like Spike... he may be a "Baby Dragon" but he is in fact 18 years old, and can be tried, and while I agree... I should have posted what Mako's sentencing will be, I doubt very much it would change things (complaint-wise)

[red: Is there any instance where Starfleet was reluctant to kill? Conclusion: Pending.]]

• Season 2: They don't want to kill Fratello, even Celesto states he feels just as bad, but the fact remains it still has to be done.

• Season 6: Mykan Stevens is a member of Starfleet, and in a death match against one of Princess Avyanna's men (He was to kill him to prove his worth) He had him at his mercy, but declined to kill, regardless of what the rules said.

It should be noted that many of the villains and heroes in this series are as old, if not older then Raven, and have likely been training for that long too. Also, "on par" means "equal" as shown here, meaning that, if a dozen of Starfleet's best fought her simultaneously, she would have gone down. Furthermore, if she was truly that powerful, she would have just barged into the palace and plowed through any obstacles in her way instead of relying on subterfuge. Conclusion: Reinstate with additional points.

-No. Even if a dozen guards fought her, she would have won the fight just as easily. An alternative scene I would've put in was Celesto and Celestia sending guards out to chase Raven, only for all the guards to be brutally slaughtered with ease. I decided not to because...

• People have complained a lot that Celesto willfully sends men to their demise, or doesn't (either way doesn't seem to matter)
• Raven was only interested in Celestia, and she practically wouldn't have had to fight the guards, because she would escape so easily.

The point is, Raven is still far too strong for Lightning and Co. Only Celestia or Celesto are able to match her for the moment.

So the ends justify the means? If she had succeeded in beating Raven, she wouldn't have been in trouble? Also, are there not other soldiers in Starfleet that could have assisted Twilight? Conclusion: Reinstate with snarkiness toned down.

-This also seems like a petty complaint (For wanting Twilight Sparkle to succeed) It is understandable you would want that, but I'm afraid it isn't how I wanted it. No. In order for the narrative to go the way it did, things had to be done this way.

• Twilight and Lightning are not strong enough to beat Raven at all
• Twilight is to be killed no matter what (Even if 100 men are there)

Did Starfleet try to prevent Pinsar from killing his troops? Were the non-combatants, including the Insecto children, spared? Conclusion: Pending.

• They cannot prevent Pinsar from killing his tropes, his magic, or whatever he's doing is too fast or strong and can't be blocked out.
• I could not allow Starfleet to save the insectos, or they would gain much needed information far to fast and they would be able to beat the Insectos easier (They wouldn't last through the season)
• Non-combatants and child Insectos were never really a concern I dealt with. It didn't seem at all relevant to the story. (Even if I had included kid insectos... they too would be just as ruthless and as evil)

One one hand, the paragraph is still accurate. On the other hand, perhaps it is comparing a mountain to a molehill. Conclusion: Reinstate?

-Perhaps, but try to lose the snark and make it seem like Starfleet are sexist when they aren't, or at least don't intend to be.

Have any men been belittled for offenses ranging from "being too silly" to "takes issue with their misbehavior"? Conclusion: Reinstate and either edit bit about Cadance or remove bit about Cadance.

-Seems like a petty complaint. It cannot be helped that most of the MLP cast are female. But on another point of view, I don't think it makes much a difference if they did get belittled (complaint-wise)

And the laws can't be changed by the rulers of either society because...? It doesn't matter that the law originated in Equestria, it hasn't been changed by either Celestia or Celesto. Actually, there was no mention of changing the law in the paragraph at all. Say, did any character ever complain about the marriage law? Conclusion: Pending.

-The laws can be changed, but again... it has be done in a democratic and civil manner. Starfleet can't just demand they change their ways anymore than a civilian can just up and demand the government to "change this right now" You still ought to set examples and "persuade" them to change. If you can't persuade them... what can you do? Rebel? That is an option, but is it a good one?

You need to think less of personal desires and more about lawful conditions. (Think about the law, not just what you want)

Maybe that should have been pointed out in the fic. Conclusion: Unless elaboration is provided in fic itself, reinstate.

-It was shown in the fic itself.

• In Season 1: Though Grand Celestial Ruler told everyone to give their prayers and beliefs to rebuild the worlds, it was still clearly shown that it was this through the Ruler's "Magic" that did the job.

"All at once, everyone did as they were told, and they all began to glow as their believing, their faith, everything pure that they could feel flowed from their bodies in small beams of soft light that slowly moved towards the tip of The Ruler’s scepter, and two mystical beams shot out towards the dust-clouds of the remains of the two planets."

I feel that is more than enough elaboration needed.

Edited by DakariKingMykan on May 16th 2022 at 1:58:03 AM

I found a Jerkass entry in the Space Ponies that probably shouldn't be there:

• Jerkass: They often act unpleasant to those who don't meet their standards. Just try counting the number of times they roll their eyes at someone that says something they don't appreciate, for starters.

We're also going to look at individual characters with this example, starting with Lightning Dawn:

• Jerkass: In Starfleet Humans, he acts particularly unpleasant to nearly everyone in the human world, Human!Celestia and Twilight especially. Even in the main series, he occasionally slips into this by pulling rank in casual conversation and generally having little patience for being contradicted.

Grand Ruler Celesto:

• Jerkass: At the very least, he's a huge Control Freak, to the point where defying his orders regardless of circumstances is a major Berserk Button. There's also that one time he guilt tripped Twilight into thinking a family got hurt because of her, and when he refused to stop Raven even when his forces outnumbered her, he had her trapped, and his wife's life was on the line, only to have the gall to be surprised at Twilight for trying and dying, which could've been avoided if he had captured Raven when he had the perfect chance to.^note Additionally, when Twilight did try to pursue Raven, the way his anger was worded made it seem that he was initially more angry about Twilight disobeying orders than about her being in danger, and although the narration tried to assure the reader it was just his anger talking, that still implied that, as far as he cared, disobeying his orders was more important than a friend's well-being.

Starla Shine:

• Jerkass: Starla has a bit of a bitchy streak in her interactions with the Equestrian ponies, mainly directed toward Rarity.

Rhymey has a Jerkass Ball entry:

• Jerkass Ball: Clutches one with a death grip on his first trip to Equestria. Despite being told by Grand Ruler that things there would be very different and to be diplomatic, he insists on being an intolerant asshole towards their antics rather than trying to explain his situation civilly.

Even though she's not part of the Space Ponies entry, Krysta has one too:

• Jerkass: Is rude to Twilight for having the audacity to think that someone should not kill all of their enemies.

I think this is an intentional decision for Pony Mykan Stevens:

• Jerkass: He is completely ungrateful and abrasive to people who want to help him.

What should we do with all of this? Can they somehow count as jerks with hearts of gold? (I bolded the names so they stand out more.)

Edited by K4713-7R0P3R on May 16th 2022 at 6:03:25 AM

We might need a big pair of hedge clippers for UnintentionallyUnsympathetic.Friendship Is Failure. Most of the entries go on for a lot longer than necessary.

Edited by PlasmaPower on May 16th 2022 at 7:41:14 AM

That is not true. They act tough when they have to, but not when they feel someone doesn't meet their standards.

• The people of the human world are not only strange to Lightning, but they seem to be treating him a bit over the top (Like he's some poor, helpless kid) and they disbelieve his initial story about his powers and his mission. He feels he just doesn't fit in, and also he acts bad to bullies and tough punks who try to cause trouble.

• Celestia is rude and ill-tempered to pretty much anyone. You say "Hello" to her and she bark at you. So naturally, Lightning would balk back at her, and show her what it's like to be on the receiving end.

• Sci-Twi keeps getting in his way, like a common pest, and she doesn't act any nicer than he does. His attitude is not totally without justification.

Number 1: He is not a control freak.

Number 2: When orders are defied and things end up in a huge mess because of it, how do you expect him to respond? He doesn't go berserk, but he does get angry like any leader should and would.

Twilight was being stuck-up and stubborn all through the ep after she failed her training test (Due to her lack of judgement, and inability to analyze the situation) Because she refused to listen to words and reasons, Grand Ruler set the scene up to help her see the error of her ways. He was merely trying to teach her a lesson of what it means to be a fighter and making a decision on what to do. "Sometimes what you "want" to do, is not what you "should" do."

• Raven hadn't made her official introduction until halfway into the season. Celesto didn't know her, and had never seen her.

• He knows Raven is far more powerful and devious (From her past intrusions, and skills) He wasn't willing to take a chance this time. (He wasn't being a jerk, he was caring)

• He never had her trapped (There was hardly any situation she couldn't escape from)
• Raven is slick, and skilled, and has avoided even detection well. She can't be captured.

This is just petty, and it's already been covered.

He tries to befriend the local folk, but they all keep acting like he's Fluttershy in disguise and treat him rather poorly. How should he behave?

Twilight is being very difficult because she's still so wrapped up in the old ways, that friendship and reasoning will work... when here they will not.

Given the many, many years he has suffered, and all that he's been through, and how people could have helped him before but didn't, and he doesn't know how to trust people... What other way could he act?

This entire section is nothing but complaints, misinformation, and audience opinions; not facts.

We might need a big pair of hedge clippers for Unintentionally Unsympathetic.Friendship Is Failure. Most of the entries go on for a lot longer than necessary.

Yes, we will. I had a long word with one of the posters, and still they have not been edited properly showing the facts.

Again, I realize I have no power over it, but that entire trope seems to be nothing but complaints and misinformation.

Edited by DakariKingMykan on May 16th 2022 at 3:47:41 AM

I'd also like to know Starfleet Magic's place on the Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism? Just asking.

[I don't think it really should make that much a difference how often the Equestrians are looked down on more than the Space Ponies.]

Actually, it does as practically every human who's a member of a minority can attest to. The most notable fictional example I can think of is how Greg Universe didn't like being looked down on by Rose Quartz in We Need to Talk despite her liking him.

[-The fact that the entire subject itself is not really relevant to the story series at all (We're not focusing much on extinction or things like that, just beating the monsters)]

Just because it's not the focal point of the story doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed at all on TV Tropes. It would be like not discussing the Dead Marshes from The Lord of the Rings.

[-I don't know how to answer this (I don't quite get the drift of the sentence: Rephrase please)]

Can someone please give examples of people in other franchises preventing a species from going extinct, even fn the last member of said species is evil and unstoppable?

[Example: "Florabite" the very first MOTW Starfleet faced in season one. It may look like a living, breathing creature, but really... it's just a bunch of wild flowers cursed with magic to turn into the creature. This monster has no heart, no soul, and cannot be turned good or be imprisoned... there's no other option but to destroy it.]

Except that plants are alive.

[Still, how do you expect a prison to be run? These are total bad guys who did very horrible things (and as I recall an Unintentionally Unsympathetic section) "they are irredeemable and deserve no mercy"]

Ask an American and Swede that and you'll get this:

Not all the prisoners in Starfleet's prisons did very horrible things, like murder or rape; some of them probably just stole some stuff or refused to get married at a certain time. Just because some people do horrific things doesn't mean they aren't people. And before you point out that some of the prisoners have superpowers, so using some of Sweden's policies wouldn't work, so do all the guards.

PS: What about the pregnant prisoners?

[Mako is well over 200 years old. He may be a kid to his own species, but in the view of Starfleet, he's old enough]

So Starfleet doesn't care about the aging differences of other species. By that logic, if Grogu killed someone, he would be in jail; he may be 50 years old but he's a baby.

[I should have posted what Mako's sentencing will be, I doubt very much it would change things (complaint-wise)]

Maybe you should.

[Only Celestia or Celesto are able to match her for the moment.]

Then why didn't they fight her the first chance they got?

[Twilight is to be killed no matter what (Even if 100 men are there)]

Just because a character has to die doesn't mean they have to die in a way that makes them and the other characters seem incompetent. If Boromir had died from the Fellowship blundering into an orc encampment that they somehow hadn't noticed instead of them being taken by surprise and him giving his life to defend Merry and Pippin, Tolkien would have been called out on it by many readers.

[-It was shown in the fic itself.

In Season 1: Though Grand Celestial Ruler told everyone to give their prayers and beliefs to rebuild the worlds, it was still clearly shown that it was this through the Ruler's "Magic" that did the job.]

I meant elaboration in the episode with Blisstonia.

Also, can we please focus on one Trope at a time?

And another thing: Justifications and explanations do not render Tropes null and void.

Edited by N.Harmonik on May 16th 2022 at 8:14:25 AM

I'm afraid I don't know any Greg Universe. I still don't believe it would matter (complaint-wise) Even if I did do it, people would still find ways to complain about it and put misinformation anyway. I've seen it done.

Perhaps, but I still think it's an irrelvance to the story, and therefore should not be questioned. It can be interpreted as maybe a "What if" or "Something to think about" but not used as a subjective term in conjunction with the actual, ongoing story. (Also I never watched Lord of the Rings)

I'm afraid I can't, I never seen anything of the kind (Just opposites)

Agreed, however, the monster still has to be destroyed. Just like when in Season 3, an apple tree was made into a monster. It was destroyed, leaving the tree burnt and sick, but it was tended too and saved.

Again, it's still a matter of priority.

Even still, this is no American Prison, it's an alien prison. We're not dealing with human beings of the same species. And in any case, I was never one to study up things like this, I just threw together other things I saw on TV (Alien prisons)

All of that is highly irrelevant stuff which I don't deal into (They aren't part of the story, nor a concern)

And I'm afraid Unintentionally Unsympathetic tend to disagree with that, Like Count Logan being so murderous and irredeemable, he can't be regarded as human.

I just did the first thing that came to my mind, seeing as nothing would have made a difference (The complaints would not stop, nor the mocking or ridicule.) So I saw no need to concern about it.

The fact that nothing will change makes not wish to.

They still don't know how powerful she is. Sure... I told you they can match her, but at the time, they don't know that. If they tried to march in and attack... great chance they would have been slaughtered in a heartbeat. (It's too risky)

Perhaps not, but when the Narrative has spoken, and there's just no other way around it, and ruling will not be passed. There is no other way. Even I was a aware it would have made them look incompetent, but there was totally no other way to get it the way I wanted it to be.

[-It was shown in the fic itself.

Please be more specific next time.

The Blisstonians are based on Christian Scientists— people who don't believe in medicine, or other physical means of doing things. (Especially on that "Family Guy" episode) Instead of taking their sick son to the hospital, they believe that by praying hard enough, God will just heal him like that (Like wishing upon a star) The Blisstonians are the same way; they believe that by praying/wishing hard enough, their planet will just heal itself... which it won't.

The Blisstonians were made to show an example that will people can pray, dream or things like that; in reality "Praying, dreaming, wishing, hoping... Do not accomplish things."

Edited by DakariKingMykan on May 16th 2022 at 4:38:36 AM

I guess since this thread is a thing, I could provide the Creator Page Guidelines for Mykan so he knows what he can add and what he can't add. I at least wanna be partial to the whole situation since we're all here.

Also, been ages since I contributed to any of these pages, and have no intention to do so for the forseeable future. It's just not in my best interest right now.

Edited by SenorCornholio on May 16th 2022 at 11:43:01 AM

[Even still, this is no American Prison, it's an alien prison. We're not dealing with human beings of the same species. And in any case, I was never one to study up things like this, I just threw together other things I saw on TV (Alien prisons)]

They being aliens instead of humans is irrelevant. It is how they are treated that is relevant.

[All of that is highly irrelevant stuff which I don't deal into (They aren't part of the story, nor a concern)]

Actually, you wrote prisons into the story so this is relevant.

[And I'm afraid Unintentionally Unsympathetic tend to disagree with that, Like Count Logan being so murderous and irredeemable, he can't be regarded as human.]

I don't recall it ever stating that he can't be regarded as human.

[Perhaps not, but when the Narrative has spoken, and there's just no other way around it, and ruling will not be passed. There is no other way. Even I was a aware it would have made them look incompetent, but there was totally no other way to get it the way I wanted it to be.]

And you can't rewrite it like you rewrote the first season because...?

[The Blisstonians are based on Christian Scientists— people who don't believe in medicine, or other physical means of doing things.]

Uh, Mykan, if they're scientists, even Christian ones, then they would believe in medicine. Or did you mean this? And I meant elaborate within the chapter itself with the differences between their faith possibly healing their Blisstonia and the ponies' faith healing their planets.

Is posting at least twice in a row allowed? I didn't see that in the rules...

@N.Harmonik

I do not feel I should answer these right now, because I feel they are starting to turn into an argument with complaints, which we have been told not to do.

Also, I fear this is starting to tip into a debate over my competence as a writer. This is strictly a forum to address and cleanup misinformation on tropes.

I'll let the others decide (I know I have no authority here)

Edited by DakariKingMykan on May 16th 2022 at 5:06:57 AM

Do you think you guys can take this to DMs? The author offering novel-length justifications of his works and someone else offering novel-length rebuttals of his justifications is not helping the purpose of a cleanup thread