To-do list: Move examples that fit one of the tropes on the Knife Nut disambiguation page and remove ones that don't, such as characters who wield a knife with no further meaning.
unable to figure out the correct definition. This didn't bode well, and the Knife Nut Wick Check done by myself and Crossover-Enthusiast shows similar issues. Before we get further into the discussion, here's the quick results:
- Knives as a Weapon of Choice: 20/79 or 25%
- Unhinged Knife User: 11/79 or 14%
- Knife Fetishization: 2/79 or 3%
- General Knife Usage: 12/79 or 15%
- ZCE: 24/79 or 30%
- Other: 10/79 or 13%
Besides ZCEs, the most common form of usage is describing a character who uses knives as their Weapon Of Choice. However, this only makes up about a quarter of the overall wick check, and presumably, a quarter of the usage the trope receives. Granted, that's still about 1500 wicks, so that's not too bad- however, I also question the tropeability of a trope that's just "WOC, but with knives". The categories that actually implied something behind the usage, Unhinged and Fetishization, only make up a much smaller percentage, but have tropeworthy meanings behind them and the use of the knives.
Then there's the ZCE...Which leads me to believe this is suffering similar issues that appearance tropes do. That is, people will pothole it and use it without context and without meaning, but "Character Uses a Knife" isn't a trope as much as "Character Is Blonde" isn't a trope.
Some options, not all of them mutually exclusive:
- We could redefine this as "Character uses Knives as a Weapon Of Choice", assuming that's tropeworthy
- We could split off the "Unhinged Knife User" aspect and maybe the "Fetishization" aspect into tropes of their own, or redefine this trope to mean one of those things
- This trope could be cut or disambiged
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 16th 2022 at 6:24:17 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Uh... maybe? Sort of irrelevant if the trope becomes a disambig...
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
So, no opposition to disambiguating this trope, with one trope about the association between knives and mental instability, and the other about knives and criminality?
I would also agree with not using the Knife Nut name anymore if we do this, since that trope is ingrained in many tropers' minds as "knife-wielders exist", so the only way to stop the misuse is to change the name.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Do we have any options other than spinning off a trope for unhinged knife wielders (with a new name) and Yarding other tropeworthy concepts, which I'd assume would involve disambiguating Knife Nut?
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
+ rename, just do cleanup, redirect(?)
Edited by Tabs on Feb 9th 2022 at 7:22:25 AM
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I hooked a crowner. I folded redefining and renaming into one option because renaming wouldn't accomplish anything on its own since nobody can figure out the current definition.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
the Retromancer
I suppose "just redefine and salvage other ideas" is not an option, though I don't expect it to be popular.
e: Why do I always predict the ratio in crowner options wrong?
Edited by Amonimus on Feb 9th 2022 at 7:21:01 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
What about redefining it and splitting off alternate potential meanings into other tropes without a rename? A few of us have suggested that?
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I added it.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yo, what is this ratio? Why is the non-rename example so popular when it wasn't popular in the discussion?
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
the Retromancer
I dunno, TRS Crowner magic. I see it happen all the time by now.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I think that can be explained by Fighteer's signature:
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Okay, solid answer.
I mean, I'm not saying that the results are fake or anything like that— if it gets consensus, c'est la vie, but I really do think it's the worst way we could possibly go about this. I don't want to come back in a year because the misuse piled up again, so I'm just curious at where the positive reaction is coming from. Maybe from people who don't want to deal with all the renaming hassle? ...But we'd still need to clean the wicks...
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
To give a more serious answer, I'm guessing the people who came here from ATT didn't agree with the pro-rename posts in this thread.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
...Or maybe didn't read them. We've had instances of that before, where people show up to vote without actually paying attention to the discourse. If it happens on TLP it can happen here...
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Well, I suppose that could have happened as well. (But at least we've had less cases of ATT voters downvoting every single option.)
(she/her)
The original name would great for the "unhinged knife user" redefinition but unfortunately Knife Nut as it exists now is bogged down with misuse. I know I was originally for keeping the name because it was concise and catchy/fun sounding (can't think of a better word). A redefinition won't because most tropers don't read descriptions and if we keep the same name, people will just continue to use the trope for any knife wielder. Maybe if Knife Nut was less established we could get away with just redefining the trope but not with 6000+ wicks...
Edited by MacronNotes on Feb 9th 2022 at 2:08:43 PM
Macron's notes
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, my concern in a nutshell. Keeping the name would be awesome if the trope wasn't already misused and shoehorned everywhere. It's literally the reason I made this thread to begin with.
And if we were going to check all the wicks for misuse anyway we might as well be changing the name at that point.
Well, I'm not against certain renames, but nothing is as concise as Knife Nut.
Nutty Knife, Knife Of Crazy, Nutter Knifing... Out of those, I'd go with Knife Of Crazy. Maybe spell Crazy with a K.
Perhaps there's a difference between Daggers vs. Kitchen Knives, to make it easier to name this.
Edited by Malady on Feb 9th 2022 at 11:30:45 AM
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
The Man Outside Reality
Yeah, I like the idea of using Xtremely Kool Letterz.
That said, I still prefer the original name.
Edited by MatthewWayne on Feb 9th 2022 at 11:31:03 AM
Trust no one.
Goku Black
Not really a fan of these names since they imply the knife itself is crazy.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, the definition we're aiming for is that it's the wielder who is crazy.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The Man Outside Reality
What about Crazed Carver? Would that work?
Trust no one.
HoMM Fan
That one is honestly pretty good
Crown Description:
Consensus was to redefine Knife Nut to refer to unhinged knife users and rename (name would be decided with another crowner), send other tropeworthy concepts to the Trope Idea Salvage Yard, and disambiguate the original name. What should the new name be?
Should Five-Finger Fillet be mentioned in the description of Knife Nut?
Kirby is awesome.