Fountain of Expies, Mountain of Problems

That's one case where I do feel confident in saying it's a coincidence, TBH.

Wait, so does King Koopa Copy need TRS at all, or just a description clarification? And if the trope already is what I'm advocating for, would a rename be a good idea to more clearly make it its own concept and not just an Expy subtrope?

But really why should expy tropes be treated differently than other tropes, like with Stock Light-Novel Calamity Princess why can't it just be treated as a character archetype like any other that is primarily associated with a certain type of work but if it happens to show up somewhere else it still counts. Maybe the reason there aren't examples outside of light novels is because people feel they aren't allowed to add examples from other media. Like there are plenty of tropes that are mostly in video games but you are still allowed to list other media for them. I don't see why I can't, for the example I gave, just list the character because she perfectly fits the archetype despite not being from a Japanese light novel?

Edited by molokai198 on Jul 13th 2023 at 11:31:23 AM

Because while I don't think Fountain of Expies subtropes have to be direct copies, they are supposed to be about inspiration. A coincidence shouldn't count.

Noting that I put my TRS-queued King Koopa Copy OP on hold until I get an answer as to whether or not I should even bring it to TRS.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Jul 13th 2023 at 7:08:02 AM

I'd say yes because after scrolling I really don't think there are many correct examples, as they can't decide between "Swole cartoonish Video Game Final Boss" and "Acrofatic king Big Bad", neither of which pointpoint to Bowser.

Every entry on the Fountain of Expies is, by definition, a subtrope of Expy. This means they need to fulfill the requirements of Expy, including being deliberate.

That's assuming they've been listed as subtropes correctly, though.

Yeah, I'm not convinced, despite the name, they are subtropes of Expy. I think Expy (as currently defined - and to be clear I'm not arguing for redefining it) is actually extremely rare, as I said before. It's much more common for characters to be inspired by other characters than to be direct complete copies of them.

If you mean the list of "subtropes", those aren't subtropes of Fountain of Expies, they're subtropes of Expy. They should be listed on Expy.

Fountain of Expies is the character that Expies are based on. That's why it's trivia — it's not present in the work itself.

That sounds like a minor but correct change.

An Expy that can't be confirmed to be deliberate is a Surprisingly Similar Characters instead.

Edited by Amonimus on Jul 14th 2023 at 12:48:53 PM

I sense a merge between Expy and Surprisingly Similar Characters coming.

I think we can definitely create a trope for Darth Vader-like characters. It's a very well-defined archetypes made up of specific sub-tropes. Just make it clear in the name that this trope is for characters who shares a lot of attributes with Darth Vader, but not necessarily inspired by him (ala Doctor Doom). Call it Darth Vader-esque or Darth Vader-like or something.

Edited by Nightwire on Jul 14th 2023 at 3:33:39 AM

I might amend my King Koopa Copy OP a bit. How does that sound?

Alright, I finished the wick check for Char Clone. Before organizing, I want to ask. Are there any categories the wicks belong better to? How does it look?

making it "this character is similar to darth vader" rather than "this character is inspired by darth vader" is sort of the problem that led to darth vader clone getting cut to begin with it; we don't really consider it notable that a character is similar to another unless there's a specific archetype associated with the character, which is often something you can narrow down further. darth vader is such a multifaceted character that i believe true expies of him are rarer than most people think, since they usually only copy one or two traits of him.

Right, that was the problem. More than an issue of misuse, it was an issue of DVC being so broad and nebulous that it was impossible to pin down which non-parody examples were being truly inspired by Vader, as well as one consistent definition or pattern that we could try and follow. His tropes drew from many archetypes and concepts, and many characters had touched on the same ideas before and since (which is why Doctor Doom was up for a while despite predating Vader).

Edited by WarJay77 on Jul 15th 2023 at 12:50:17 PM

Is Practically Joker redundant with Monster Clown?

No. Being a clown is not a requirement for the former, which is more about the personality and philosophy of the character.

Edited by Rynnec on Jul 16th 2023 at 6:41:29 AM

Granted, I have seen Practically Joker applied to characters like THE END from Sonic Frontiers, who in no way even superficially resembles the Joker (being a calm, order-obsessed Eldritch Abomination, which one would think makes it the antithesis to the Joker’s “chaos incarnate” shtick), as well as some other characters for whom the connection is less-than-sound. That might actually need its own wick check and TRS thread.

Yeah, Riddler from Batman (1966) is an example of Practically Joker and he's definitely not a Monster Clown.

bumping this. has there been any progress?

On what? This isn't a TRS thread, we're just discussing concerns.

King Koopa Copy is on the TRS Queue, if that means anything.

x5 That one is definitely misuse. Cut it.