Ambiguous Name (new crowner 15 Oct 2021): Underwater Boss Battle

Maybe we could go for a soft-split, which might make a later split a bit easier, but meh.

I'm not a fan of soft-splitting in general, and as I said, even the on-page examples lean toward interpreting the trope name literally, so I don't think any kind of split is justfied unless we get more examples for surface battles.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 10th 2021 at 12:11:11 PM

I am in favor of Aquatic Boss Battle FWIW.

OK, single proposition it is then.

FYI the page is already soft-split. I wasn't necessarily suggesting we make a new trope either, rather narrowing the focus of this trope to fit the title, since non-underwater examples are less abundant. I think the non-underwater examples could be moved to Platform Battle.

Edited by naturalironist on May 11th 2021 at 7:43:32 AM

But what if there are no platforms, and characters simply swim on the surface? Like the case with Clem from Luigi's Mansion 3? No platforms are involved, and characters simply swim on ducky tubes. What do we do with these cases?

I legitimately didn't notice the soft-splitting when I previously discussed soft-splitting. Then again, I'm pretty sure I had been up for hours when I posted that (I'm getting over whatever illness I had the past week or so, so hopefully my sleep schedule can be fixed).

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 11th 2021 at 10:27:02 AM

Yeah, I don't want to just assume that other above-water examples don't exist, or that they all exist in the exact same Platform Battle style. We need to keep in mind that the title of this trope is overly narrow. Tropers who had examples of the other variant probably didn't know it counted.

To me, that fits the spirit of Platform Battle: the player's movement is highly restricted.

My argument here, as has been made by others, is that "a battle near water" is not inherently tropeworthy by itself. Instead, the focus should be on how this affects the mechanics of the fight. As outlined in this post, a fight where the player is swimming around underwater is quite different from one where their movement is severely restricted by being on a boat, a small platform, etc.

Keeping the current name and moving the small number of examples that don't fit is also less effort than a rename.

And that's why I'm in favor of a formal split. The examples are already divided, so my idea is to complete the division. With this solution, renaming is probably unnecessary.

At a quick glance, the examples that would be moved to a theoretical trope about fighting an aquatic boss from a platform/from a boat/while swimming on the surface would include the ones currently listed as Above Water Boss Battle (twenty-eight examples) and Boat Based Water Boss Battle (fifteen). The Multiple Cases section has three eligible examples and three others that alternate between being above water and being underwater. Assuming a split happens right now, that's forty-six examples guaranteed and potentially forty-nine. Not the meatiest trope there ever was, but I wouldn't call it inadmissible.

Eleven of these examples are ZCEs, mind, which is a problem.

Still, this isn't insurmountable. If example count is the issue, it could theoretically be sent to TLP to gather more.

EDIT: Made some edits on the page. That's forty-seven/fifty examples and eight ZCEs.

Edited by Theriocephalus on May 12th 2021 at 12:35:11 PM

I think we can safely call the rename. Now do we make a "split" crowner?

Voted in favor of a rename, Aquatic Boss Battle gets my support.

I don't think a split is necessary. As others pointed out, there aren't too many wicks at the time being.

Why not?

Not a big deal since I guess it lost out in the crowner, but I'm a little salty that the main alternative being discussed, narrowing to fit the name/usage, wasn't included in the crowner. I think a page action crowner would have been the way to go.

Not sure about a split crowner as I'm not sure anyone's been pushing for that? What would be the point of renaming and splitting? Not sure which option on a split vote would better fit my preferred solution, is what I'm saying.

Damn, you have a point. I wouldn't be opposed to scrapping the crowner and starting a new one.

We can run a narrowing crowner as well if folks want.

But first, let's call in favor of rename.

As for next crowner, are we voting on names or a crowner to decide other options first?

I think the latter.

I agree.

Added a new crowner. I wasn't entirely certain about the option text; folks may need to add a new option.

Bump for votes

Shouldn't there also be an option for "keep as is, including both underwater and non-underwater battles?"

Probably...

()Included into a crowner.