Amateur Veteran
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You are correct — I miswrote a few things.
Crowners switched.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I'm all for Ambushing Enemy.
Ambush Enemy sounds like it only counts one enemy, when there are usually several particularly in Nintendo or Platforming games so I voted no on that.
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
I chose Ambusing Enemy since it includes bosses.
Kirby is awesome.
I am curious: what is it that gives you that impression of "Ambush Enemy", if I may ask?
It's not important, as it looks like most prefer "Ambushing Enemy", but I'm really not seeing the implication that you're describing, and I'm curious about it.
My Games & Writing
I just think Ambushing Enemy suits the trope best as it seems more plural. Ambush Enemy seems singular and it might lead to an unclear description. Like Wall Master was hard for people who didn't know Zelda, while Ambushing Enemy tells you everything you need to know. If Ambush Enemy pulls out ahead I won't mind, but I prefer the convenience and plurality of Ambushing Enemy. Though I must wonder, can Ledge Bats like those green/skeletal slugs known as Chompas from Banjo Kazooie count for this trope? As they don't reveal themselves until you are VERY close and in the Big Boo's Haunt level, aren't ledge bats at all, they simply guard items.
Edit: Okay I meant the former sounded more descriptive. I'm aware Ambush Enemy and Ambushing Enemy are not plural.
Edited by Klavice on May 22nd 2021 at 6:14:39 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
"Ambushing" isn't plural though; it's just as singular as the other version. It's just a "Present Progressive" verb.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
I voted up Ambushing Enemy because I feel it's a teensy bit clearer the "ambushing" is a descriptor that applies to "enemy", while Ambush Enemy can be construed as "(you) ambush enemy". (*can* be, so I'm not super against it)
How sweet it is
Votes are unanimous for Ambushing Enemy, so calling. Ambushing Mook can be a redirect.
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Amateur Veteran
Next step would be redrafting the description, then, I'd imagine. Should we start a sandbox for it?
The current description goes
Can be extremely annoying, especially when they guard narrow ledges, as you can't target them until you're within their attacking range.
Compare Goddamned Bats and Demonic Spiders, depending on what the particular monster is capable of. See also Chest Monster for enemies that hide by disguising themselves as something benign. Compare Living Structure Monster; there, the structure itself is the monster while in this trope, the monster hides inside the wall. Also see Empty Room Until the Trap.
which can lose the first sentence of para 3 for inviting opinions on a trope and change "grab" to "kill".
Amateur Veteran
The Mook Bouncer bit in the first paragraph should also go.
, I'm inclined to agree to both cuts, I believe, as well as on changing "grab" to "kill" (or "attack"?) as appropriate.
Are the first two "compares" relevant? The first of them seems like something that may or may not apply—as with many types of enemy. As to the second, are such enemies as these particularly likely to be unpleasantly difficult foes...?
(The rest of the "compare and contrast" section seems fine to me, however.)
I'm late to this next, but to respond regarding "Ambushing" vs "Ambush":
@Klavice: I'm inclined to agree with War Jay: The word "ambushing" isn't a plural, and I'll confess that I don't see a connotation of it, myself.
@Tabs: That is a good point: "Ambushing" does attach a bit more strongly to the following noun, I do think.
Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on May 19th 2021 at 11:37:25 AM
My Games & Writing
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
&I agree with both of those changes.
Edit: Also, should we turn this into a disambiguation page between Ambushing Enemy and Franchise.The Legend Of Zelda, since the latter is the former Trope Namer? We did that with The Missingno.
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 20th 2021 at 3:44:26 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Amateur Veteran
If there's precedent it might be worth doing, especially since there are, uh...
[checks]
1,004 inbound links to Wall Master as of now, and those may be 1,004 inbound links more than we might care to lose.
Anyway. How's this for a description rewrite?
These enemies can be extremely difficult to deal with, especially when they guard narrow ledges or passageways, as you can't target them until you're within their attacking range.
Subtrope of Stealthy Mook. For enemies that hide by disguising themselves as something benign that lures you into investigating it, see Chest Monster. Compare Living Structure Monster; there, the structure itself is the monster while in this trope, the monster hides inside the wall. Also see Empty Room Until the Trap.
A lot of examples will probably need to be either cut or commented out, but if Stealthy Mook likely has examples that can be moved to here — I'm currently assuming that Stealthy Mook is the supertrope, so examples specific to the subtrope should be moved to that trope's page.
Also, do we want to keep the current image? The quality isn't the best but it's illustrative enough.
In the first paragraph, I would suggest paragraph breaks after the first sentence and before the last. I might also quibble some of the grammar/sentence structure, but I'm not sure that it's important.
However, that aside, the description looks good! It's to-the-point, appropriately descriptive, and clear, I do think!
Regarding the image, with the confusion of the old name removed I think that it works well enough. The dark spot helps to connect the location of the monster in the second panel with the apparently-empty location in the first, thus highlighting that the creature (presumably) appears suddenly on proximity.
My Games & Writing
I think turning the page into a disambiguation is a good idea too, there's a lot of links to it and just redirecting it would probably break a bunch of 'em.
I agree, the rewrite looks good. There's a few nitpicks, but we can always edit those later. The current image fits fine, even with the name change, but it'd be great if it was higher resolution. The caption could use some tweaking too, since right now it's just a reference to a Dexter meme.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I was never in favor of completely cutting Wall Master after moving the trope to its new name. I was suggesting disambiguating as an alternative to redirecting.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Amateur Veteran
Right, well, we seem to be in agreement regarding the name change and the description rewrite. What's the next step? I'd imagine the main thing to take care of now would be cleaning up the examples.
I've created Ambushing Enemy with the proposed description so folks can begin moving legitimate examples over.
The next steps would be:
- If necessary, further tweak Ambushing Enemy.
- Replace Wall Master with a disambiguation.
- Add notes on Renamed Tropes and here
.
- Move ImageLinks.Wall Master and Laconic.Wall Master.
- Move all the wicks to Wall Master.
- Request a moderator to close this thread.
IP's selected image uses the correct definition of "Wall Master" -> Ambushing Enemy, so may I put the image on the page?
How sweet it is
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Crown Description:
Should Wall Master be renamed?
If I have both parties correctly, Karxrida is arguing that the name should include "mook", while Theriocephalus is arguing that "mook" is more specific than "video-game enemy", and seems to be suggesting that the name should not include "mook".
Thinking about it, I think that I agree with the latter position: not all video-game enemies are disposable mooks, and I see no reason to restrict this trope to such, offhand.
My Games & Writing