Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment - Violations, misuse, and other issues

Not sure if we can. The Real Life examples thread voted to keep the Politics Memes pages which I think implicitly is their way of saying these pages are free to be no-ROCEJ zones for people to post whatever they want.

Not really, the few times tropers have explained their keep vote, it's always some variation of "it just needs a cleanup".

They never participate in any cleanups, but it's always what's recommended.

EDIT: I'm speaking from having both started a few, participated in a few others, and simply trying to post cleanups in the RL thread ... the response is always minimal.

Edited by laserviking42 on Aug 4th 2022 at 10:25:38 AM

Well, I mean, we have a thread for Memetic Mutation examples, if it gets taken there we can go over them.

I mean, cleanup can't happen if nobody takes the initiative and tries to go through them, all of us are equally responsible if something doesn't get done if nobody starts it in the first place. Bystander Syndrome, ya'll.

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 4th 2022 at 10:15:22 AM

I know, I'm just really new here so I don't really feel confident editing anything without approval from more experienced tropers yet.

Oh, I wasn't directing this at anybody. I've just heard people bring up the "won't do cleanup" issue before and I think it's fair to say it's not a one-sided issue.

That's quite a strawman. Personally I think it's okay to trope memes from politics because some of them aren't even inherently related to controversial policies (like how "Thanks, Obama" became a sarcastic mainstream meme regardless of one's feelings on Obama, or how "Pokemon Go to the polls" is just about an embarrassing quote and not about Hillary Clinton's actual politics, or like Bill Clinton playing the sax as just this silly Rule of Cool image) — we just need to be careful with those that are and not take any really controversial stance on the meme. My only issue would be whether it's irrelevant to the wiki.

Edited by mightymewtron on Aug 4th 2022 at 11:53:47 AM

the issue with Memes pages has always been verifying that it's an actual meme used prolifically among the fandom and not one group's in-joke they think is way funnier than it is. with political memes this is even more important. i think we've decided hatedom memes are valid, but have to be carefully watched for complaining - and politics doubly so. the pages have to be kept neutral.

Right. Memes.US Politics desperately needs its own cleanup topic at this point (in order to not drown out the other discussions on the "normal" Memetic topic.) I'm not sure it's actually worth going NREP on, but it might be worth it considering because of the sheer number of "ha ha x bad" examples added right after the event happened regardless of whether it went memetic or not.

in fairness, things move so quickly that a meme often genuinely does explode for a very short time only to be eclipsed by something else when the next thing happens. i feel like in this particular case, a short-lived meme can still be valid... but that really only muddies the waters further, i guess.

Memes pages in general have a problem with shoehorning. It's just that the contentious nature of politics makes tropers more likely to add weak examples that support "their side."

I think it's worth making a topic on the Short Term Projects board on political memes - it's not exactly in this thread's scope or the Real Life thread's scope and I wouldn't want to burden the Memetic Mutation thread with it any more than it already has been.

Edited by MissConduct on Aug 5th 2022 at 12:39:43 PM

For what it's worth, as someone who does keep up with political news, a lot of the memes seem like they're not really memes and more just sarcastic commentary on current events, with little in the way of the mutation or even viral part of "memetic". Even if I actually agree with some of the sentiments and exacerbations expressed by the entries in other contexts, it's very off-mission for the subject of the page.

Edited by AlleyOop on Aug 5th 2022 at 3:12:36 PM

Couldn't have stated it better myself.

I've just created the thread in Short Term, so any further discussion can go there.

From DethroningMoment.Web Original, under the Schaffrillas Productions folder:

• Schaff saying that Elsa should've let Arendelle be destroyed at the end of Frozen 2 because of "something, something, historical injustice and it's not like there were any people in it at the time. You'd just be destroying a bunch of empty buildings." left me speechless. Apparently, people should be fine with letting their homes be destroyed because of a past injustice perpetrated by their ancestors that they themselves had no part in. It's everything wrong with modern American politics taken Up To Eleven completely unironically.

The last sentence about politics seems to be running afoul of ROCEJ misuse.

Edited by costanton11 on Aug 6th 2022 at 12:27:10 PM

Last sentence should be cut.

Edited by BlueXIII on Aug 6th 2022 at 10:58:46 AM

Was looking at the page for The Rageaholic - used to see them around on ScrewAttack - and this entry jumped out a bit.

• Vote Early, Vote Often: He's made several videos about the 2020 election and his belief that illegal voting led to Trump's loss.

Not sure if this is shoehorn-y or just unnecessary but feels a bit... oof.

another review page that ends up troping the real person's opinions and shit because there's no narrative content.

do we have a cleanup thread for those yet?

Am more awake now and I initially just thought the 'Vote Early, Vote Often' trope was about remembering to vote - I don't read so good - but now that I see that the trope itself on Rageahol's page is intrinsically linked to 'Razorfirst believes that Donald Trump won the 2020 election' then I feel more confident in deleting. We don't need to mention that here.

The issue here is that it's all the real persons real opinions because that's all the show is, because, like you said, it's just a guy talking to a camera, not a narrative with tropes. If anything, only allowing us to talk about his opinions on media but not his political views, which are part of his videos, is just being dishonest about what he makes videos about.

So, there was an ATT query last month about a (now suspended) user who made a page for their own webcomic. The page in question, among other things, has this bit in the description.

So far, it isn't afraid to make fun of the rotten fruits of society; corrupt companies, egotistical actors, unhinged mobs, braindead politicians...you name them, they're mocked here.

At the very, very least, the jab at Christopher Sabat needs to be removed, but everything else feels concerning as well.

agree the Chris Sabat pothole needs to go.

the others seem ok since nothing specific is mentioned. it's on the edge, but i don't think it violates ROCEJ.

I'm distracted by how the page isn't indexed.

But yeah, that pothole can go, though I wouldn't mind ditching them all just to be safe.

Speaking of bashing politicians, the entirety of Acceptable Political Targets could use a good scrubbing. It says to not have real life examples, yet it's full of real life (especially American) examples.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Aug 10th 2022 at 10:08:29 AM

Uh, well, Acceptable Targets has been a problem child for a long time, but nobody has any clue what to do with it.

I'm not sure those examples are real-life examples though since the point is that works bash these certain political groups, and that's something that's inherently based in real life.

My suggestion would be no putting specific politicians or parties on there, but general ideologies are fair game.