Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment - Violations, misuse, and other issues

Yes, cut that, since the Obama connection is tenuous (as I recall Sorkin really really believed in the "both sides" narrative) and Trump has no bearing at all on the West Wing.

i am concerned at some of the examples of What Do You Mean, It's Not Political?. some of the examples are of questionable validity. some seem to be shoehorns.

Edited by namra on Jun 8th 2022 at 10:33:52 AM

Which ones do you think are questionable?

Looking over The Flash (2023):

• Troubled Production: Oh, did it ever. Even putting aside the aforementioned Development Hell, production on The Flash was turbulent and messy. After Justice League (2017), production on the Flash solo project was repeatedly delayed as it went through a cycle of rewrites, reworks, and a litany of different directors coming and going. Shortly before they settled on a director and began filming, Ezra Miller was recorded getting into a violent altercation in a club where they choked a much shorter woman to the ground; details came out shortly after that Miller reportedly kicked out and proceeded to hurl obscenities at the club staff, but news of the incident dissipated and Miller avoided the spotlight. After production started, news was quiet besides the surprising casting choices, but after post-production started, Miller was once again involved in a violent altercation as they were arrested for harassment and assault, then given a restraining order against a couple he'd been staying with, then arrested again some weeks after for another violent assault (this time hitting a woman with a chair). It was reported during this that Warner Bros called an emergency meeting and proceeded to stall any further production on The Flash as they figured out what to do with Miller, and further details came out that they had been having similar outbursts on set, as well as bodycam footage of their first arrest leaking showing them acting in a bizarre mental state. Shortly before this, the film had been delayed to 2023, but with post-production supposedly halted, that is up in the air.

For sure, Ezra Miller is a scumbag and I don't disagree with that, but I feel like this focuses too much on off-set personal drama of theirs, as opposed to anything that would cause a Troubled Production. Perhaps it could be revised to mention their arrests in a briefer fashion as context for why WB held the emergency meeting and delayed the film's release, and save the more detailed discussion for the incidents that happened on-set.

From DethroningMoment.The Mysterious Mr Enter:

there is a ban on any example mention ukraine conflict. believe me, people have gone into fights simply talking about it.

That is describing Overshadowed by Controversy, not Troubled Production.

Either way, I'd probably cut the examples seeing as the movie hasn't been released yet.

Edited by laserviking42 on Jun 20th 2022 at 4:42:05 AM

Not necessarily, the recent news has led to DC publicly admitting that Ezra Miller was indeed causing problems onset and that their reason for hiring Grant Morrison at one point was to entice the notoriously capricious Miller to stay in the role. I think that can be still be jotted down, even if the parts about Miller's crimes outside of filming are not germane.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jun 20th 2022 at 4:58:25 AM

The Enter one should probably remove the accusation of him being brain damaged and having mental issues, it's a personal attack (and harsher since, like him or not, he literally is autistic, so this is veering into just actual ableism).

Otherwise I don't think the mere mention of the Ukraine conflict or the surrounding Russophobia is inherently problematic, though I think changing it might just lead to more controversy. Should we remove it to be safe or will we just be accused of not caring about the issue? IDK.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jun 20th 2022 at 5:04:53 AM

Is an entry like this allowed?

It seems really personal and even brings up another video.

Yeah, it's still using one of his videos as a DMOS. It's not against the rules to use a former video to explain why this is a DMOS — the other video isn't another sneaky entry, just context.

My problem with the last line is that it doesn't say "the Russia-Ukraine conflict", it just says "Russiophobia".

I would either change it to mention the conflict or remove it entirely.

Yeah but it also gets really personal in places and that isn't allowed in entries. Direct attacks like that in entries are banned

I'd say cut it and link to the thread. If there's any issue, just tell them to rewrite it to remove those portions.

This is just me, but I don't have a problem with the Mr. Enter Dethroning entry. Maybe the "brain damage" jab could be cut, and any other personal attacks cleaned up, but other than that, it seems on a par with most Dethroning Moment entries. I also don't think that mentioning Russophobia (which does exist) is necessarily the same as minimising the horrors of the Ukraine war. That said, the last sentence isn't necessary to the entry either way.

The brain-damaged comments should most certainly be axed, but I'm not sure about deleting the entry altogether. I've tried rewriting it, but I'll highlight some parts that I'm unsure of.

In his review of Turning Red, he said that the film failed to portray 2002 because it is post-9/11 and people were paranoid about more terrorist attacks. Was there paranoia? Yes. But I think you are drastically, drastically overestimating it—and as a result are Dramatically Missing the Point. If you were letting the threat of terrorists live rent free in your head in 2002, then I'm sorry to be you, Mr. Enter. Because the rest of the world, including the US and Canada, was not. Additionally, I remember when you criticized Extra Credits. Yeah, there were many things in that video I agree with. Sure, you had some critical research failures like the cost of videos, but I do agree that you were pointing out how tone deaf and blind Extra Credits was sounding. When you criticized them for saying "all media is political", you referenced that one Far Cry game being criticized for not making some message. Here, you do... the exact same thing: criticize Turning Red for not acknowledging the post-9/11 paranoia. Whoops. Did you even watch the movie? Your response of "Well, I guess I did something right because I angered Twitter" shows that you're missing the point- because that's literally not what people were criticizing you for. They were criticizing you for wondering why a film that's not about 9/11 or the society post-9/11 in any way doesn't mention it. What, do you think Toy Story 2 should mention the New Media Are Evil push against video games in The '90s spurred on by games like Mortal Kombat, DOOM and Night Trap? Or that a cartoon set in 2022 and made in 2022 should mention the Russiophobia?

Edited by GenericGuy2000 on Jun 21st 2022 at 4:33:59 AM

Maybe the person who originally posted the entry should be messaged about this?

Most definitely.

If I PM them, should I direct them to the thread, or just tell them via PMs about the decision?

Maybe direct them here.

I don't see the "Did you even watch the movie" brand of snark to be problematic by Darth standards. It's still attacking the opinion more than the human behind it.

I also don't think the last sentence is unnecessary as it's an analogy I've seen many other times by Enter's critics.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jun 23rd 2022 at 5:35:19 AM

Was there any kinda actual discussion on this massive edit to Idiot Programming, or is ~XJDHDR unilaterally taking it upon themself to defend DRM entirely unprompted?

We're going to delete their Justifying Edit either way, we just want to know whether to also bring back all the actual examples they deleted or not.

(Wasn't quite sure where to put this, but DRM is a controversial enough subject, so ROCEJ seemed like a maybe...?)

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Jun 24th 2022 at 7:59:49 AM

Definitely go ahead and delete it. Also note that the "source" they used is a GitLab post with the username of the troper who added it in the URL.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Jun 24th 2022 at 8:16:38 AM

Also, the commented-out notice not to change anything sounds like mini-modding on their part to me.

Didn't even notice that, yeah that's mini-modding.